Jack McCrae

[Scollop]

B.M. Reckons Jack Mcrae will only be behind Steele.
I disagree.

I think Hunter Clark at this stage of his career is going to give us better output and more impact than Mcrae. We all know the only thing that's held him back has been aerobic fitness and those horrible impact injuries he copped in 2021/2022.

I think Hunter will surpass Mcrae and be a better inside mid next year.

I see Steele and Clark and Windy being the best/quickest/smartest combination in the middle for Round 1 2025. Jones, Phillipou, and Dow provide midfield support.

Wood, Hill, Byrnes, Darcy Wilson, Liam Henry and Jack Sinclair will be called upon at stoppages around the ground.

Brandon Parfitt has been delisted by Geelong

If we want to add depth to the team. He's going to cost us a lot less in salary than Jack Mcrae

[B.M]

Hunter Clark will never be an A Grade mid whilst he he has the aerobic power of a local footy player. 20ppg just doesn’t cut it as an inside mid

Add to that, he is slow as fk

But he is a good footballer and courageous.

They both played VFL this year
Clark averaged low 20s in possession
Macrae averaged over 40

[Teflon]

Hunter Clark will never be an A Grade mid whilst he he has the aerobic power of a local footy player. 20ppg just doesn’t cut it as an inside mid

Add to that, he is slow as fk

But he is a good footballer and courageous.

They both played VFL this year
Clark averaged low 20s in possession
Macrae averaged over 40

Yep
Trolli doesn’t get it so it’s pointless
It’s like the muppets who said Crouch would t help us
Dumb
McRae is a good pick up
Soldo…interesting….hope that works
But both will give us more grunt around the ball and we’ve struggled to score from stoppage so that’s not a bad thing

[Scollop]

Teflon flip flops his opinions to suit whatever brain fart SOS and Gubby and Lyon conjure up

Earlier in the year Teflon was calling for the team to 'stay down' the bottom of the ladder for 2 years.

Ross and the team now…just have to stay down

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 9#p2062329

Use Jack Steele as 'trade bait' he said. Clean out the lot of 'em

At one stage he was happy with our inside mids...just needed burst speed ...like LDU...Don't recall Teffers thinking that we needed another 30 year old plodder

Not more of the same mids either - we need burst from congestion type mids

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 8#p2063528

And ...if we go down this path of recruiting 28-30 year olds during this trade period...Teflon will predictably be calling for another cleanout in 2026

[SaintPav]

LOL

[B.M]

Is Jack Macrae a plodder

Seems to cover the ground and use the ball ok

People insisted Seb Ross was a plodder
Sub 10 3k
Had the third highest top speed measured on the list a few years back
No surprise Brad Hill was 1 and then surprisingly Dean Kent at 2 Seb came in at 3 with 35.1 kph

[SAINT-LEE]

Hunter Clark will never be an A Grade mid whilst he he has the aerobic power of a local footy player. 20ppg just doesn’t cut it as an inside mid

Add to that, he is slow as fk

But he is a good footballer and courageous.

They both played VFL this year
Clark averaged low 20s in possession
Macrae averaged over 40

Very clever, great ball disposal but he runs like he's trudging through butter. Nothing has improved in that area. So, yeah hes got a spot for sure but he IS not our midfield menance. I wish he was. I was hoping it'd be Owens or Pou.

[Dave McNamara]

Hunter Clark will never be an A Grade mid whilst he he has the aerobic power of a local footy player. 20ppg just doesn’t cut it as an inside mid

I agree with this.

Couple of points though.

-Those 20ppg are class. And yes, that includes the stuff he tries that doesn't always come off. Same can be said about Nas too. As elite kicks, this type of player attempts stuff that most wouldn't dare. So that will also mean a few clangers too. That's the price to pay.

- If he does get fit, then those 20ppg can be almost doubled. (Given he's been playing around only 50% TOG.) And if that happens... he'd be very much an elite mid fielder.

This maybe subjective, but our mid field looked way way better to me when Clark (no 'e' ) came back into our team.

[B.M]

I’m not sure he’s an elite kick

[Scollop]

Is Jack Macrae a plodder

Seems to cover the ground and use the ball ok

People insisted Seb Ross was a plodder
Sub 10 3k
Had the third highest top speed measured on the list a few years back

I criticised Sebby's disposal efficiency and his decision making at times, but never considered him a plodder.

People are looking at Mcrae being out of favour this year in 2024, but Bevo started playing others in the centre last year... because Mcrae had already lost a yard in 2023!!

Bevo preferred faster and more agile mids again this year. In the early rounds after Mcrae recovered from injury, Bevo chose to play him in a couple of games in the magoos.

You mentioned that Bevo was forced to play Mcrae after he got 40+ in the VFL. I agree. Selection integrity gave him no choice. Mcrae was ok against us...possessions were high...but he played a minor role. We were awful that day.

How did he go after that?

In the next 10 or so rounds, Mcrae showed why he's been on the outer. He averaged under 20 disposals. I think he played full games between Rnd 11-19 inclusive. I think he was in at centre bounce in a few of those games. His clearance numbers were low, contested possessions very low... and also very low score involvements.

That's why he was made the sub again in round 20 ...and again, he was made sub in the EF.

In 2025... he'll be as close as you can get to being a plodder

[B.M]

Got his GPS numbers?

Reality
He was behind one of the best players of this generation, an AA gun mid and one of the best inside clearance mids in the AFL

He should’ve been the fourth mid, but was the 5th
Hence they were eliminated early in the finals
Not just because Macrae was bent over at selection but because Beveridge is mental

[Dave McNamara]

I’m not sure he’s an elite kick

What!?!

Naz not an elite kick!?!









Just kidding. You must mean Clark.

I guess that depends then on how one defines 'elite kick'. If in terms of his overall stats', then most likely, he isn't an elite kick.

If though, one defines this in terms of his actually kicking ability (and that's on both sides too), then I reckon that he is 'an elite kick'.

The issue is then, the stats'. Which for Hunter C are dragged down by a combination of the ambitous kicks that he tries on, but also, that so many of his kicks are very under extreme pressure as an inside mid. In fact, very few other players would even manage to get a boot to the ball with many of those kicks.

[Scollop]

Got his GPS numbers?

Reality
He was behind one of the best players of this generation, an AA gun mid and one of the best inside clearance mids in the AFL

He should’ve been the fourth mid, but was the 5th
Hence they were eliminated early in the finals
Not just because Macrae was bent over at selection but because Beveridge is mental

That's wrong.

Bont
Libba
Treloar
Richards
Harmes/Garcia/Sanders

Mcrae...6th maybe or...7th? -8th?

Forget about the fact that Mcrae WAS an All Australian 3 years ago.

Mcrae isn't Sean Burgoyne or Scott Pendlebury or Robert Harvey.

He was sometimes 7th in line in 2024.

Riley Garcia and Riley Sanders should overtake Mcrae in 2025 and beyond.

Bevo knows that the modern game demands leg speed. He can't have Bont, Libba and Mcrae in the centre. He moved Ed Richards from half back to centre bounces because of his leg speed.

Whenever Ed Richards was fit he was easily the 4th best mid. He's better than Mcrae right NOW. Forget about the fact that Mcrae has more accolades. That's history

Bevo played youngsters instead of Mcrae in several games in 2023 and now again in 2024. James Harmes was also preferred at stoppages and in the starting 22 for their Elimination Final against GWS just like Bevo did earlier in the year. It didn't work but nothing did for them on the day.

You conveniently want to call Bevo mental. Are all Mcrae's Western Bulldog's team mates mental? They voted him out of the leadership group in February this year.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/02/15/ ... r-bulldogs

Ask yourself why? Oh... that's right because the senior coach is mental and so is the football department and all the players

[Scollop]

Got his GPS numbers?

I looked at the Telstra Tracker on the AFL app for our Round 6 game against the Dogs.

That was McCrae's best game of the year wasn't?

There's 4 categories -1. Distance, 2. Speed, 3. Sprinting/Repeat sprints and 4. Work rate.

These 4 are then split into another 2 sections, so there's basically 8 categories.

The AFL do the top 5 players in each category.

The Saints were better in 5 of the 8 categories. Good to see Windhager, Byrnes and Zac Jones feature multiple times. No surprises with Sincs, Hill and Wilson all prominent and dominant in most categories.

And Bulldogs named in each were;

1. Distance /Distance at speed - Bontempelli and Treloar

Bont was the only Dog listed for total distance covered. Treloar was the only Bulldog listed for distance covered at high speed. We had several for both categories.

2. Speed Maximum/ Speed Average for the game. Liam Jones and Rhylee West feature here for maximum speed. Saints filled all 5 spots when it came to average speed across four quarters.

3. Work rate - Treloar, Gallagher, Richards, Johannesin

4. Sprinting/Repeat Sprinting - Vandermeer, Harmes, Gallagher and Johannesin

Guess who doesn't feature in ANY category?

[SaintPav]

No spuds please.

[samoht]

He will probably improve us short term?

Maybe he's part of a Lyon masterplan for a tilt at the flag next year?
Lyon 3.0, we're talking about, here.

[loris]

Got his GPS numbers?

I looked at the Telstra Tracker on the AFL app for our Round 6 game against the Dogs.

That was McCrae's best game of the year wasn't?

There's 4 categories -1. Distance, 2. Speed, 3. Sprinting/Repeat sprints and 4. Work rate.

These 4 are then split into another 2 sections, so there's basically 8 categories.

The AFL do the top 5 players in each category.

The Saints were better in 5 of the 8 categories. Good to see Windhager, Byrnes and Zac Jones feature multiple times. No surprises with Sincs, Hill and Wilson all prominent and dominant in most categories.

And Bulldogs named in each were;

1. Distance /Distance at speed - Bontempelli and Treloar

Bont was the only Dog listed for total distance covered. Treloar was the only Bulldog listed for distance covered at high speed. We had several for both categories.

2. Speed Maximum/ Speed Average for the game. Liam Jones and Rhylee West feature here for maximum speed. Saints filled all 5 spots when it came to average speed across four quarters.

3. Work rate - Treloar, Gallagher, Richards, Johannesin

4. Sprinting/Repeat Sprinting - Vandermeer, Harmes, Gallagher and Johannesin

Guess who doesn't feature in ANY category?

No doubt about it Scollop, you always do your homework. Best of all you identify your sources.

[B.M]

So what you’re saying is you haven’t got his GPS numbers?

[saynta]

Hunter Clark will never be an A Grade mid whilst he he has the aerobic power of a local footy player. 20ppg just doesn’t cut it as an inside mid

Add to that, he is slow as fk

But he is a good footballer and courageous.

They both played VFL this year
Clark averaged low 20s in possession
Macrae averaged over 40

Carlton's Williams was also as slow as fk and he was a true champion.

[cwrcyn]

My major concern in the midfield is clearances. It's by far the weakest part of our game. McCrae isn't coming in to wow us with his GPS numbers. He'll be in at most centre clearances and stoppages and should help us not get obliterated in there like we have been regularly in the past few years

[Scollop]

So what you’re saying is you haven’t got his GPS numbers?

Have you?

I was going to just post that simple question above back at you, but I thought I should firstly try and source something. Which I did.

You want to imply that McRae's GPS numbers are impressive. Let's have it then. Ohh...and please give us his stats and km run for games in the seniors in 2024... not 2021 or 2022 or 2023.

[lewdogs]

So what you’re saying is you haven’t got his GPS numbers?

Have you?

I was going to just post that simple question above back at you, but I thought I should firstly try and source something. Which I did.

You want to imply that McRae's GPS numbers are impressive. Let's have it then. Ohh...and please give us his stats and km run for games in the seniors in 2024... not 2021 or 2022 or 2023.

Macrae is a genuine no-brainer for us. He was in the AA squad as recently as 2022. 2023 his numbers aren't that bad either despite being moved out of the middle. He has been pushed out by others because they have a stacked midfield and Bevo decided to move guys like Richards ahead of him. He will instantly improve our midfield and will be notching up 30 possessions a game and winning clearances which we have desperately lacked. It's genuinely the most obvious trade ever and it will be lauded next year when he improves us out of sight.

[Scollop]

So what you’re saying is you haven’t got his GPS numbers?

Have you?

I was going to just post that simple question above back at you, but I thought I should firstly try and source something. Which I did.

You want to imply that McRae's GPS numbers are impressive. Let's have it then. Ohh...and please give us his stats and km run for games in the seniors in 2024... not 2021 or 2022 or 2023.

Macrae is a genuine no-brainer for us. He was in the AA squad as recently as 2022. 2023 his numbers aren't that bad either despite being moved out of the middle. He has been pushed out by others because they have a stacked midfield and Bevo decided to move guys like Richards ahead of him. He will instantly improve our midfield and will be notching up 30 possessions a game and winning clearances which we have desperately lacked. It's genuinely the most obvious trade ever and it will be lauded next year when he improves us out of sight.

I hope you're right

I hope everyone who has argued against me is right

I hope Mcrae does something to reverse time and becomes as agile as he was in 2022. Quick reminder... it's 2025 in a few months.

I hope Mcrae can give us as much of a boost as we saw with a fit and healthy Zak Jones. Our midfield group finally got settled and I think Steele, Clark, Dow, Jones and Phillipou all complement each other.

I hope the momentum and the connection between team mates that we saw for the last 8 games of the year is not broken by introducing a different element into the midfield mix.

I honestly believe it takes time to build connection with team mates. Marcus Windhager will fit right in because he's been part of the team for over 2 years.
Henry has trained with the players for 12 months and would have done 2 preseasons with the same players when round 1 coms along in 6 months...by the time Mcrae does 2 preseasons at St Kilda... father time will have caught up to him

I hope it doesn't stop the steady and obvious progress we saw over the last 3 injury interrupted seasons for one of our most important inside mids. I hope this inside mid focusses on his aerobic fitness and makes our senior coach regret his decision to chase Mcrae.

I hope Clark and Windhager are still preferred over Mcrae because I believe we will see the very best of these guys in the next 2-4 years. Mcrae has proven that he is on the slide while they are showing signs of improvement.

I hope it doesn't prove to be an error in recruiting, where it costs us the potential exit of a young player like Garcia who wants more opportunities at senior level.

[Sanctorum]

I hope you're right

I hope everyone who has argued against me is right

I hope Mcrae does something to reverse time and becomes as agile as he was in 2022. Quick reminder... it's 2025 in a few months.

I hope Mcrae can give us as much of a boost as we saw with a fit and healthy Zak Jones. Our midfield group finally got settled and I think Steele, Clark, Dow, Jones and Phillipou all complement each other.

I hope the momentum and the connection between team mates that we saw for the last 8 games of the year is not broken by introducing a different element into the midfield mix.

I honestly believe it takes time to build connection with team mates. Marcus Windhager will fit right in because he's been part of the team for over 2 years.
Henry has trained with the players for 12 months and would have done 2 preseasons with the same players when round 1 coms along in 6 months...by the time Mcrae does 2 preseasons at St Kilda... father time will have caught up to him

I hope it doesn't stop the steady and obvious progress we saw over the last 3 injury interrupted seasons for one of our most important inside mids. I hope this inside mid focusses on his aerobic fitness and makes our senior coach regret his decision to chase Mcrae.

I hope Clark and Windhager are still preferred over Mcrae because I believe we will see the very best of these guys in the next 2-4 years. Mcrae has proven that he is on the slide while they are showing signs of improvement.

I hope it doesn't prove to be an error in recruiting, where it costs us the potential exit of a young player like Garcia who wants more opportunities at senior level.

You again raise some interesting stats and points in your ongoing thesis to prove that it is a mistake for St Kilda to bring Jack Macrae to Moorabbin Scollop.

But I doubt that adding Macrae to the midfield group will "stop the steady and obvious progress we saw over the last 3 injury interrupted seasons" He may be past his prime at the elite level but he will bring a lot of top level experience to continue the development of St Kilda's younger players to carry the mantle in the years to come.

Even if his role is merely to win the ball in the contests at centre bounces and stoppages to slip quick passes to the other onballers, giving the team first use of the ball to drive it forward, he will prove his worth. This does not require fast leg speed, just fast reflexes, and at 192 cm and 89 kg he has the body size to hold his ground against his opponents.

Your comment that Macrae's position in the team might cause a youngster like Hugo Garcia to seek opportunties elsewhere is highly speculative - in his 9 games this year, quite a few as sub, he has shown glimpses of potential but he is still a very long way off being considered in the team's best 23.

They all have to earn their spot, and I'm confident that for every game the selectors will pick the midfield squad based entirely on form, and that certainly won't impinge on the chances of the young pups to be named ahead of the old dogs - or should I say, one "old dog" in particular!

[Scollop]

Even if his role is merely to win the ball in the contests at centre bounces and stoppages to slip quick passes to the other onballers, giving the team first use of the ball to drive it forward, he will prove his worth. This does not require fast leg speed, just fast reflexes, and at 192 cm and 89 kg he has the body size to hold his ground against his opponents.

That's exactly what I 'm afraid of.

You can't have one dimensional players in your team anymore in the modern game. The stand rule and the structure and ball movement and the importance of possession, means you need mids who can apply pressure and cover the ground quickly to prevent uncontested marks.

That's exactly why Bevo had him as 6th or 7th preferred midfielder.

Last post in this thread..I promise