Clarko and the Hawks alleged disgusting behaviour.

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Vortex
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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980813Post Vortex »

The Fireman wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 5:52pm
Vortex wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 5:18pm Eddy Betts has said the allegations remind him of the stolen generation. I'm trying to understand his comments, I think I get how he is making the connection from a racism point of view but as someone that has some experience in forced adoption and the white stolen stolen generations I'm wondering if it's solely a race issue.

A complex issue to unpack which may only be achieved by those tasked with investigating the facts and context.

As a side note this is another important event hijacked by our toxic corporate and social media landscape.
Agreed mr Vortex

And would like to add I only believe my brothers.
Yeah I don't want to get into that side of it Firey, I'm very passionate about supporting indigenous issues, many of my close friends are indigenous from a long time spent up FNQ way and also working in remote indigenous communities and I also have some involvement in AFL Cape York House.

That doesn't preclude me from exploring free thought and objectivity and I know all fair minded indigenous people approach issues like this in the same way, hence my probing thought how much is a race issue and how much is possibly related to other issues.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980814Post The Fireman »

Hard not to get into that side of things when it is dragged out by all & sundry on an increasing level and connected to many undeserving situations

Hope the facts come out. The facts


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980816Post Vortex »

The Fireman wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 6:19pm Hard not to get into that side of things when it is dragged out by all & sundry on an increasing level and connected to many undeserving situations

Hope the facts come out. The facts
Yeah as I've said previously in this thread, I'm not sure how indigenous issues are advanced from what has transpired over the past 2 days, maybe they are and I just can't see it. The media exploit our tribal instincts and divide us into two sides so that we anchor to an immovable position and I'm not sure how that helps any situation where deep understanding and care is required.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980817Post sunsaint »

Vortex wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 6:06pm
The Fireman wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 5:52pm
Vortex wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 5:18pm Eddy Betts has said the allegations remind him of the stolen generation. I'm trying to understand his comments, I think I get how he is making the connection from a racism point of view but as someone that has some experience in forced adoption and the white stolen stolen generations I'm wondering if it's solely a race issue.

A complex issue to unpack which may only be achieved by those tasked with investigating the facts and context.

As a side note this is another important event hijacked by our toxic corporate and social media landscape.
Agreed mr Vortex

And would like to add I only believe my brothers.
Yeah I don't want to get into that side of it Firey, I'm very passionate about supporting indigenous issues, many of my close friends are indigenous from a long time spent up FNQ way and also working in remote indigenous communities and I also have some involvement in AFL Cape York House.

That doesn't preclude me from exploring free thought and objectivity and I know all fair minded indigenous people approach issues like this in the same way, hence my probing thought how much is a race issue and how much is possibly related to other issues.
pretty simple really

One was a racial policy designed to water down & then ultimately wipe out a race of people

The other colour was usually one of three reasons
Social pressure
Financial pressure
Life threatening danger to child


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980820Post D.B.Cooper »

Anyone up for a conspiracy theory?

What are the odds on Jason Burt (is that his name?) becoming the scapegoat?


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980823Post The_Dud »

The Fireman wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 5:52pm
Vortex wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 5:18pm Eddy Betts has said the allegations remind him of the stolen generation. I'm trying to understand his comments, I think I get how he is making the connection from a racism point of view but as someone that has some experience in forced adoption and the white stolen stolen generations I'm wondering if it's solely a race issue.

A complex issue to unpack which may only be achieved by those tasked with investigating the facts and context.

As a side note this is another important event hijacked by our toxic corporate and social media landscape.
Agreed mr Vortex

And would like to add I only believe my brothers.
I think Eddy’s comments re the Stolen Generation would be a situation where white people in power made decisions for Indigenous people and justified it by claiming they were “in their best interest”, when in reality it was not.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980824Post SaintPav »

D.B.Cooper wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 6:51pm Anyone up for a conspiracy theory?

What are the odds on Jason Burt (is that his name?) becoming the scapegoat?
Why would it be a “conspiracy theory”?

Happens all the time.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980828Post Ghost Like »

D.B.Cooper wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 6:51pm Anyone up for a conspiracy theory?

What are the odds on Jason Burt (is that his name?) becoming the scapegoat?
A wrong would have to be proven I guess. Or is that naive?


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980829Post SaintPav »

The Fireman wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 4:32pm
This place houses an unhealthy amount of virtue signalling wankers
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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980830Post WellardSaint »

One former Hawk player has an article about him on foxsports website.
It says he developed a meth habit while at the Hawks.
After he got delisted, there were several break-n-enters, buying stolen goods, a car theft.
His lawyer was waiting for him once, out the front of court- he didn't turn up. Had gone to Target for jeans (as he thought tracky dacks weren't good) and left without paying- got nabbed.

He may be one of the ones who had sim card removed.
To cut ties with family.
Did club have serious misgivings?
Family- cousins involved in drugs and crime?
Club wanted him to sever ties?
For his own good

(Edit: hope this post won't risk the site drawing any adverse attention)
Last edited by WellardSaint on Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:52pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980831Post happy feet »

Apparently another bomb is going to explode at Essendope and it has nothing to do with the coaching appointment.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980832Post WellardSaint »

happy feet wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:50pm Apparently another bomb is going to explode at Essendope and it has nothing to do with the coaching appointment.
Gonna see BigFooty Bombers page for news, then will come back.
Nothing on bombers' page yet
Last edited by WellardSaint on Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:11pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980833Post CURLY »

So the players have been afforded the luxary to remain anonymous. No matter there circumstances on how they left Hawthorn and where there life has ended up at the present time. Meanwhile two men have been basically thrown to the wolves with out even being given a chance to speak.

No one can defend this type of prejudice.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980835Post The_Dud »

CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:54pm So the players have been afforded the luxary to remain anonymous. No matter there circumstances on how they left Hawthorn and where there life has ended up at the present time. Meanwhile two men have been basically thrown to the wolves with out even being given a chance to speak.

No one can defend this type of prejudice.
Yep, the real victims out of a report on treatment of indigenous players that was so damning Hawthorn sh*t themselves and hand balled it over to the AFL, is Fagan and Clarko…

Classic.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980836Post skeptic »

CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:54pm So the players have been afforded the luxary to remain anonymous. No matter there circumstances on how they left Hawthorn and where there life has ended up at the present time. Meanwhile two men have been basically thrown to the wolves with out even being given a chance to speak.

No one can defend this type of prejudice.
This type of thing is not remotely new or unique

Protection of the victims is always paramount. I don’t say that with any judgement or malice directed at Clarkson/Fagan etc (will keep an open mind) but whether its about violence or other abuse, the victim’s/witnesses safety is always most paramount.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980837Post Annoyedsaint »

skeptic wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 2:54pm It’s hard to imagine that these things didn’t occur as stated…
What’s missing is the context. The first story for example, those aren’t rationale responses to the challenge. Hence the question becomes what was happening that got the club so worried like that?

That leads to the two obvious follow ups… is there a reasonable scenario that sees a club advocate for separation of a relationship and termination of a pregnancy?

Secondly… would they take this course of action with a non-Indigenous person.

On both levels it doesn’t seem right.

The next thing that perplexes me though is how have Clarkson and Fagan become the principle figures of interest here. Surely decisions like these would be primarily driven through the club’s welfare individuals?

We’re talking about near DFFH levels of intervention (noting that they’re obviously adults).

I’m also unsure as to how this happened so vehemently against the wishes of all those involved and the non-specific denial from Fagan and Clarkson.
If there was no wrong doing whatsoever, I’d expect a more impassioned response focused on clearing his name… this is obviously juxtaposed with I guess what legal instruct him t say.

I guess what I’m trying to say here is that like most things… the answer is pbly in the middle but geeez we are still missing a lot of information

My gut says it seems fairly unlikely that at least some misconduct hasn’t occurred but I can’t say i have my head around it either
Best response/thought process I’ve seen in here so far.
Perhaps too much for the virtue signalling twats that have already applied the death penalty via their Kangaroo Court….

It’s a report based on one side of the story.
Let’s now have the actual investigation where the other parties have an opportunity to have their say.

That’s all assuming everything is done on face value.
Then you will now have AFL branding, lawyers looking for different angles, the possibility of a prior fall out with an individual (eg. Rioli & Clarkson) and the revenge aspect.

It’s a little suss this report was finalised the week after Clarkson is announced as coach of another club as well.

It seems bizarre the alleged things could be said by an employer to an enployee, but I’m sure that family or mates would say to each other at times if a partner was right for them, but questioning a pregnancy goes way overboard unless it was a parent to son conversation if financial constraints are an issue for example in bringing up a child.

It would be very interesting if other non aboriginal players at any stage have been placed in the same conversations by all clubs. It not, then it’s looking really poor.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980839Post CURLY »

The_Dud wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:05pm
CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:54pm So the players have been afforded the luxary to remain anonymous. No matter there circumstances on how they left Hawthorn and where there life has ended up at the present time. Meanwhile two men have been basically thrown to the wolves with out even being given a chance to speak.

No one can defend this type of prejudice.
Yep, the real victims out of a report on treatment of indigenous players that was so damning Hawthorn sh*t themselves and hand balled it over to the AFL, is Fagan and Clarko…

Classic.


So let’s just ignore basic justice and allow as many people to sink the boots in before so speaking to the two most credible people involved.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980840Post WellardSaint »

A player who got delisted several years ago, and has seen other Hawks players flourish- would feel hard done by.

If they've fallen on hard times, they'd be very unhappy.

Could exaggerate what happened


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980841Post The_Dud »

CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:10pm
The_Dud wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:05pm
CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:54pm So the players have been afforded the luxary to remain anonymous. No matter there circumstances on how they left Hawthorn and where there life has ended up at the present time. Meanwhile two men have been basically thrown to the wolves with out even being given a chance to speak.

No one can defend this type of prejudice.
Yep, the real victims out of a report on treatment of indigenous players that was so damning Hawthorn sh*t themselves and hand balled it over to the AFL, is Fagan and Clarko…

Classic.


So let’s just ignore basic justice and allow as many people to sink the boots in before so speaking to the two most credible people involved.
Why are they the “two most credible people involved”?


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980842Post Annoyedsaint »

Ghost Like wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 1:34pm There does seem to be a bit of a Wild West "hang em high" posse mentality about all this. I agree with Finna and SaintPav that we see what comes from the AFL's inquiry.

I cannot imagine any of us being too happy with an accuser (nameless) from our past claiming we wronged them & that claim being taken as gospel by all concerned without any right to question that accuser.

The need to establish and understand timelines, context, reasons, all involved, player demands, expectations by Club to all players and how much has become hearsay overtime.

I've noted Hodge stating he was advised to avoid Colac and previous bad habits from his life before AFL and of the traps awaiting young AFL players.

I also note Mitchell saying there are non of these issues now at Hawthorn. Interesting, the report came out two weeks ago so did the problem correct itself? Or is he putting it to Clarkson? Either way, the question is, how can he be so sure? He had no idea as a player and Club leader.

Plenty has to play out and hopefully we get some real understanding and clarity.

P.S.: Anyone else think the leaking / timing of this report is a little off? Would it have come out this week if Brisbane had of beaten Geelong? My gut says "No".
100% agree


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980843Post CURLY »

The_Dud wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:15pm
CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:10pm
The_Dud wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:05pm
CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:54pm So the players have been afforded the luxary to remain anonymous. No matter there circumstances on how they left Hawthorn and where there life has ended up at the present time. Meanwhile two men have been basically thrown to the wolves with out even being given a chance to speak.

No one can defend this type of prejudice.
Yep, the real victims out of a report on treatment of indigenous players that was so damning Hawthorn sh*t themselves and hand balled it over to the AFL, is Fagan and Clarko…

Classic.


So let’s just ignore basic justice and allow as many people to sink the boots in before so speaking to the two most credible people involved.
Why are they the “two most credible people involved”?


No idea why would one of the best coaches in history be credible. Chris Fagan who has built a reputation as being a fantastic people manager.
You don’t get into their positions and have their reputations unless your respected and credible.

I


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980845Post Annoyedsaint »

CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:10am
The Fireman wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:54am
CURLY wrote: Wed 21 Sep 2022 9:12pm Eddie Betts on 360.

When told Clarkson and Fagon deny the allegations levelled at them. What’s your thoughts Eddie? I always believe the player the brother.

Yep enough said.
Did betts say that .?
100%
I’ve got a lot of time for Eddie Betts as he relays his messages usually in a calm manner that people can listen to and then question it all in a real way.

But I reckon he’d want that line back if he had his time again. Society doesn’t work like that and any court/tribunal would be a waste of time if that was the case.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980847Post The_Dud »

CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:20pm
The_Dud wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:15pm
CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:10pm
The_Dud wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 9:05pm
CURLY wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:54pm So the players have been afforded the luxary to remain anonymous. No matter there circumstances on how they left Hawthorn and where there life has ended up at the present time. Meanwhile two men have been basically thrown to the wolves with out even being given a chance to speak.

No one can defend this type of prejudice.
Yep, the real victims out of a report on treatment of indigenous players that was so damning Hawthorn sh*t themselves and hand balled it over to the AFL, is Fagan and Clarko…

Classic.


So let’s just ignore basic justice and allow as many people to sink the boots in before so speaking to the two most credible people involved.
Why are they the “two most credible people involved”?


No idea why would one of the best coaches in history be credible. Chris Fagan who has built a reputation as being a fantastic people manager.
You don’t get into their positions and have their reputations unless your respected and credible.

I
Why does being good at coaching make you a credible human? Ever heard of Jerry Sandusky?

Are all people that have achieved high positions in life credible people?


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980848Post happy feet »

WellardSaint wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:53pm
happy feet wrote: Thu 22 Sep 2022 8:50pm Apparently another bomb is going to explode at Essendope and it has nothing to do with the coaching appointment.
Gonna see BigFooty Bombers page for news, then will come back.
Nothing on bombers' page yet
This comes from a comment made on a SMH story about Hird.


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Re: Clarko and the Hawks disgusting behaviour.

Post: # 1980849Post skeptic »

So I want to make sure I have a handle on this…

It’s is alleged that three named Hawthorn officials (and maybe more) have influenced/impacted social/personal life based decision making.

It’s implied (and not stated as best as I can see) that what occurred was perceived to be in the best interests of the player’s welfare.

The impacted people are suggesting that the club used their authority/influence to essentially coerce of force them into decision making that they didn’t necessarily want or weren’t certain of.

Then the next layer is that in the three cases that have been reported/identified/discussed (whatever), in each instance, they involved Indigenous Australians… thereby implying that the power differential is more likely going to be utilised to ‘exploit’ the socially disadvantaged.

There’s no suggestion of any overtly hateful racially based agenda here but suggestions of how people may be treated differently based on let’s say disadvantage.

Again, casting no aspersions on anyone… is that a simplified look at what’s on the table?


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