Dear Ross Lyon

[markp]

In the 2009 and 2010 GF's we only needed 1% more to go our way to win... that could've been delivered by the coach, the players, the opposition, the umpires, blind luck.

To argue the toss and try pin blame is an exercise in utter futility. And it's a lovely day outside.

The circular argument feels a bit like OCD after the first 6 or 7 pages.

[Johnny Member]

Your 20 posts on this thread today suggest you are going okay…

Each one takes about 20 seconds to write.

That gives me about 7 minutes I've spent 'bitching' about him today. Considering this day has been going for 875 minutes, and that this post isn't about him, I've spent roughly 1% of my day bitching about him.

Hardly 'all day'.

[dragit]

ok

[skeptic]

In GF10 luckily Gardiner was injured so Lyon had to switch Blake and Kosi into the ruck, put Gilbo up forward and tag Swan with Ray. Those moves and the play of blokes like Lenny bj Ray and others almost stole us a flag. Both players and coach need praise for that second half performance.

I totally agree re the 2nd half of the 2010 GF1.

Some very good, unpredictable, attacking and creative moves were made which turned the game on it's ear.

But again, that inability to find a goal whilst Collingwood could find one cost us again.


My question was, and still is, why did he revert back to the predictable and failing structure at the opening bounce the following week? I nearly fell off my chair when I saw it.

He'd finally done something to reverse the trend of our reliance on too few players and our inability to score - which nearly pinched us a flag, then the very next week he reverts back to the old method!! And guess what?? Within about 20 minutes we're 3 goals down and haven't managed to kick a single goal!

He steps outside the square once more, and we get ourselves 7 shots at goal in the next quarter.


The signs were there in 09 that he needed to change, but he just wouldn't do it. The signs are there at Freo still that he needs to change, but he won't.

His match day coaching on that day was fine...

it was his poor selections at the table that cost us

Gardiner and McQualter beaten as per usual that season
Dempster's "blanket job" on Didak wasn't the star performance u made out
Gram was lacking match fitness, hadn't had much impact leading up to and on the GF
Eddy was Eddy

I may be harsh on Farren Ray... fact still remains he only played a half of football and was in poor form leading up to the GF

Heck even Jones was way way down on his stella form in the early part of 2010

Ppl always throw back the argument of well what changes would you have made given our injury list. I would have gradually tried to put games into the lesser lights of that season in the hope either the dropped players would respond and show form or the new players would step up. With similar opportunity who knows, maybe one or 2 of McEvoy, Steven, Armo, Geary, Stanley etc would have stepped up... if things were different, Armo may not have gotten injured

[dragit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GW0Vnr9Yc

[skeptic]

In the 2009 and 2010 GF's we only needed 1% more to go our way to win... that could've been delivered by the coach, the players, the opposition, the umpires, blind luck.

To argue the toss and try pin blame is an exercise in utter futility. And it's a lovely day outside.

The circular argument feels a bit like OCD after the first 6 or 7 pages.

lol

could be the most pertinent point of all though I don't think the players could have done much more

[joffaboy]

In the 2009 and 2010 GF's we only needed 1% more to go our way to win... that could've been delivered by the coach, the players, the opposition, the umpires, blind luck.

To argue the toss and try pin blame is an exercise in utter futility. And it's a lovely day outside.

The circular argument feels a bit like OCD after the first 6 or 7 pages.

lol

could be the most pertinent point of all though I don't think the players could have done much more

7.7 to 7.1 says they could have.

[The Fireman]

was and is a good coach.

[skeptic]

In the 2009 and 2010 GF's we only needed 1% more to go our way to win... that could've been delivered by the coach, the players, the opposition, the umpires, blind luck.

To argue the toss and try pin blame is an exercise in utter futility. And it's a lovely day outside.

The circular argument feels a bit like OCD after the first 6 or 7 pages.

lol

could be the most pertinent point of all though I don't think the players could have done much more

7.7 to 7.1 says they could have.

A player doesn't choose to miss a shot at goal

the coach chooses what changes he makes

[SaintPav]

A player doesn't choose to miss a shot at goal

the coach chooses what changes he makes

OMG, how big is the carrot that is stuck up your arse? FFS let it go....

I know I'm being vulgar but some people just don't get it.

[Middo]

A player doesn't choose to miss a shot at goal

the coach chooses what changes he makes

OMG, how big is the carrot that is stuck up your arse? FFS let it go....

I know I'm being vulgar but some people just don't get it.

And you told me to stop posting ..hang your head in shame !!!!!

[SaintPav]

A player doesn't choose to miss a shot at goal

the coach chooses what changes he makes

OMG, how big is the carrot that is stuck up your arse? FFS let it go....

I know I'm being vulgar but some people just don't get it.

And you told me to stop posting ..hang your head in shame !!!!!

I didn't deny it.

[Middo]

[plugger66]

I notice you have been a member since 2006. Can you show us all your posts critisizing RL's coaching druring 2009 especially the resting of players. Also was 38 points a game winning average good enough for you to say you were wrong about how we won games in 2009? it was the highest winning average in the AFL that year but in your opinion we basically scrabbled wins. Well that is now proven as rubbish. Anyway look forward to all your negative posts about RL in2009.

Our average winning margin in the first 11 games was an incredible 47 points!

Then in the 2nd half, it was merely 27 points.


The signs were there.


Our 'points for' in the first 11 games was 102 points. In the 2nd half it was down to 88.


The signs. They were there.

How was the signs for Geelong in the second half of the year. Are you going to show us posts that you made where you said we should rest players? By the way have you worked out what the matter is between your pea brain and your pumpkin head?

[skeptic]

A player doesn't choose to miss a shot at goal

the coach chooses what changes he makes

OMG, how big is the carrot that is stuck up your arse? FFS let it go....

I know I'm being vulgar but some people just don't get it.

You don't even have an argument, or a point to make, you haven't been able to make a point this entire thread that isn't easily countered

all you can offer are 12yr old style insults, you're just a waste of time

now bugger off kid the grown ups are talking

[SaintPav]

A player doesn't choose to miss a shot at goal

the coach chooses what changes he makes

OMG, how big is the carrot that is stuck up your arse? FFS let it go....

I know I'm being vulgar but some people just don't get it.

You don't even have an argument, or a point to make, you haven't been able to make a point this entire thread that isn't easily countered

all you can offer are 12yr old style insults, you're just a waste of time

now bugger off kid the grown ups are talking

You must have a lot of time to waste to dig up a dozen posts from three years ago which didn't prove anything. But keep trying to justify that you were right. It's quite funny really.

[skeptic]

Run along little boy hide from the argument because you know you've dug yourself into a hole you can't escape from - all those posts were meant to prove were that I had some reservations leading into the grandfinal... a claim u have doubted again and again. Obviously they don't actually prove an outcome as we don't know what would have happened if late change occured or say Schneider nailed that 1st goal as eveything would be different.

keep calling names and changing the topic though, as that's all you can do.

at least guys like JB and plugger have an argument and they're standing by it.

you have nothing

you're like Brick from anchorman



accept he might be a bit smarter

Out of interest, how old are you??? I'm betting you can't be more than 16 tops

[SaintPav]

Run along little boy hide from the argument because you know you've dug yourself into a hole you can't escape from - all those posts were meant to prove were that I had some reservations leading into the grandfinal... a claim u have doubted again and again. Obviously they don't actually prove an outcome as we don't know what would have happened if late change occured or say Schneider nailed that 1st goal as eveything would be different.

keep calling names and changing the topic though, as that's all you can do.

at least guys like JB and plugger have an argument and they're standing by it.

you have nothing

you're like Brick from anchorman

accept he might be a bit smarter

Out of interest, how old are you??? I'm betting you can't be more than 16 tops

Up until last night now I could not take you seriously because you couldn't even get the basic facts right. Your single-mindedness and pride to prove that you were right all along and to demonstrate your football expertise and deep knowledge of our playing list on a football fan forum WAS, well, nauseating, and not just for me.

BUT....this morning after reading your last post...everything was understood, everything was finally explained. It was like seeing what was at the end of the fork..crowning my long suffering as a Saints diehard was the realisation that if only somehow you were in the coaches’ box and pulling all the moves and making all the team selections that we would have our holy grail. Sceptic, YOU are my GOD.

[Saints43]

All these 'we kicked ourselves out of it in the first half' arguments are forgetting one important thing.
The game was there for the taking in the last quarter.

We didn't take it. And Ross made some pretty poor decisions when it counted:
Raph's matchup - got absolutely crucified - Lyon did nothing.
Ball's strange absence when an inside ball winner was crucial.
The fallback panic play of bombing it in to a tired and outmatched Roo.

Deadset correct.

The final point for mine, was the most important of all.

Leaving Roo alone in the F50 and sending Kosi to the ball. With Scarlett following...

[joffaboy]

A player doesn't choose to miss a shot at goal

the coach chooses what changes he makes

Regardless - 7.7 to 7.1 with all many of those behinds gettable goals and one, where Milne waltzed into an open goal and dribbled it along the ground DIDN"T EVEN REGISTER A SCORE!!!!

I posted stats of % scoring for points to goal for inside 50's for the match and it is patently obvious that the game plan was working but the players CHOKED IN FRONT OF GOAL.

Doesn't matter how you sidestep or smokescreen or deflect, these are the facts. The players blew it for us in the 2009 GF not the gameplan.

2010 the players almost pinched it for us after we got lucky (as i dont think the coach would have changed it) and gardiner got injured, so after halftime he threw Blake into the ruck (with Kosi) Gilbo up forward and Ray (who had done SFA on to Swan) all great moves. The players, unlike 2009 stepped up in the second half and almost won us a game agaisnt a team who in 2010 had not reliquished a four goal lead for the entire season.

I am not a Lyon defender. I only enjoyed his time at the Saints because we were winning. the games themselves sometimes were appalling (remember the game agaisnt the Bulldogs in 2010?).

I am not unhappy he is gone. As a neutral supporter the Derby last week was a travesty and I switched off after halftime.

It is not Lyons job to "entertain" the neutrals though, it is to win football matches for his club and ultimately win the flag.

I just hate this unfair and untruthful historic revisionism of Lyon losing us flags when he was instrumental in getting us to the big dance twice in a row especially in 2010 when everybody said we were no chance after Riewoldt went down.

A bit of respect for his achievements woudln't be remiss.

BTW in hindsight, I am glad he has left. Scotty Watters is doing the job, Pelchen has brought in some freshness in Saad and Milera, Stanley, Armo and Steven are blossoming, and we have a range of youngsters liek Simpkin, Sipposs, Cripps, Ledger, newness and some others who are really coming on.

Lyons big question mark is wether he can nurture a list or just be a parasite and feast on the work of others. So far the vidence points to the latter

[jonesy]

A player doesn't choose to miss a shot at goal

the coach chooses what changes he makes

Regardless - 7.7 to 7.1 with all many of those behinds gettable goals and one, where Milne waltzed into an open goal and dribbled it along the ground DIDN"T EVEN REGISTER A SCORE!!!!

I posted stats of % scoring for points to goal for inside 50's for the match and it is patently obvious that the game plan was working but the players CHOKED IN FRONT OF GOAL.

Doesn't matter how you sidestep or smokescreen or deflect, these are the facts. The players blew it for us in the 2009 GF not the gameplan.

2010 the players almost pinched it for us after we got lucky (as i dont think the coach would have changed it) and gardiner got injured, so after halftime he threw Blake into the ruck (with Kosi) Gilbo up forward and Ray (who had done SFA on to Swan) all great moves. The players, unlike 2009 stepped up in the second half and almost won us a game agaisnt a team who in 2010 had not reliquished a four goal lead for the entire season.

I am not a Lyon defender. I only enjoyed his time at the Saints because we were winning. the games themselves sometimes were appalling (remember the game agaisnt the Bulldogs in 2010?).

I am not unhappy he is gone. As a neutral supporter the Derby last week was a travesty and I switched off after halftime.

It is not Lyons job to "entertain" the neutrals though, it is to win football matches for his club and ultimately win the flag.

I just hate this unfair and untruthful historic revisionism of Lyon losing us flags when he was instrumental in getting us to the big dance twice in a row especially in 2010 when everybody said we were no chance after Riewoldt went down.

A bit of respect for his achievements woudln't be remiss.

BTW in hindsight, I am glad he has left. Scotty Watters is doing the job, Pelchen has brought in some freshness in Saad and Milera, Stanley, Armo and Steven are blossoming, and we have a range of youngsters liek Simpkin, Sipposs, Cripps, Ledger, newness and some others who are really coming on.

Lyons big question mark is wether he can nurture a list or just be a parasite and feast on the work of others. So far the vidence points to the latter

Pretty much sums it up

[markp]

One of the great joys of SS is a jb slam dunk... and that was another one!

Good work.

[SaintPav]

Joffa, under normal circumstances I would agree with your almost perfect post. But due to my epiphany this morning, it is not Ross Lyon who we need to show more respect to, but one of our own fellow posters who is now my new GOD.

[joffaboy]

Joffa, under normal circumstances I would agree with your almost perfect post. But due to my epiphany this morning, it is not Ross Lyon who we need to show more respect to, but one of our own fellow posters who is now my new GOD.

skeptic isn't god, and on this occasion my opinion is that he and RodgerFox, and the others who reckon Lyon cost us a flag are DEAD WRONG.

Lyon got us to the GF twice in a row, once on the back of a brilliant forward press, the next season on the back of losing Riewoldt for almost the whole season.

Before people carry on about the GF's you have to look at the two seasons in totality, and the undisputable fact is that two Lyon coached teams made consecutive GF's, one where the players blew it by choking in front of goal, the second time both players and coach responded and almost pinched a GF coming from 4 goals down against a team who was by far and away the most dominate team of the season.

To say he was responsible for us missing out on a flag is some sort of sick joke, and shows the small minded mentality of some posters, thats all, no more or no less.

[samoht]

We've probably saved $500k/ year (we weren't prepared to pay RL $1 mill plus) and anyway we were sinking under RL in consecutive years from 20 wins to 15 wins to 12 wins (after being lucky with some close low scoring wins) - we were probably heading for 6 wins this year ?
The more our players got used to and learnt his defensive game, the more backward we went.

If it was a good game plan - you'd expect the opposite, that we'd actually get better over time as we learnt to better implement it.

We were watching a boring and insipid brand of football under RL and getting used to the idea of losing, as his initially promising ( but in reality useless) game plan (with its short use-by date) was being picked apart by better and more progressive coaches.

RL is stuck in a time warp with a game plan that is irrelevant in today's modern and ever evolving football.
A smart coach will flow with the times - Watters (as the name suggests) has already shown that he flows with the times.

If the choice was between an adaptable and progressive thinking coach at $500k/annum or a $1 mill /annum coach with a boring game plan (and no plan B) that works brilliantly for 1 or 2 years - I know which one I'd choose.