The Richmond Situation Vs. Ours

[WayneJudson42]

ST KILDA should have taken Ben Cousins.

It is as simple as that.

But they didn't - and while the brilliant midfielder turns 31 in late June next year - he's due for an enourmous finish to his career at Punt Rd.

Effectively, Cousins has not played a full season in two years. But his stint during the second half of 2007 proved how awesome he can still be, even with time out of the game. Given that his body has had only limited physical toll of late, it is safe to assume he will be in far better condition than those of the same age. It could even prolong his career for an extra year or two.

He is unlikely to ever reach his peak again. Nor is he going to lift any side to a flag on his own. But that is beside the point. He is a world-class athlete with a world-class work ethic, added to an insatiable desire to win.

That can only be a good thing. And for a side like St Kilda, who lacks pacy midfielders, he would have been a god-send. He would have drawn attention away from the likes of Hayes, Ball and Dal Santo, enabling them to have a greater impact. The latter two of that pairing would have benefited enormously.

But instead, he'll take the heat from players like Deledio, Tambling and Cotchin. He'll allow them to grow and evolve in the next few years, and if they can take his training track lead, they'll become superb players.

Ultimately, it's a punt that Richmond must be congratulated for making. It won't change their world, but it will make their team better both now and in the future as their players come to grips with what made him such a dominant midfielder for so long.

And going into 2009, a year where they are predicted to make inroads into the eight, they couldn't have picked a better player - or story - to spark their season.

But it's a gamble the Saints should have made. He was the ideal fit for their team, and the momentum of his signing could have revived a legitimate feeling of optimism.

They must quickly find a way to erase the overwhelming feeling of deflation.

Is that Caro's story for tomorrow's paper?

If so it makes a couple of pretty big assumptions/presumptions.

1. That Cousins will 'survive' without re-offending.
2. That Cousins will not have serious injury problems.

3- that Everton knows why we didn't take him... or does he?

4- that having 2 years out guarantees that you'll still be good. It did the world of good for Carey and Plugger IIRC.

5- that Everton knows exactly what Ross has planned for next year.

6- that Cousins would have achieved what HArvey never could in 21 years for our club.

Sounds like a bunch assumptions stated as facts, yet again to justify someone's dissapointment at not getting Cousins.

Like I stated, if they really wanted him, why would they have risked going to the PSD to get him????

Deal with the facts people... FACTS! Not hypothisies.

[Devilhead]

They must quickly find a way to erase the overwhelming feeling of deflation.

No YOU must find a way to erase YOUR overwhelming feeling of deflation

[WayneJudson42]

They must quickly find a way to erase the overwhelming feeling of deflation.

No YOU must find a way to erase YOUR overwhelming feeling of deflation

[iwantmeseats]

Is that Caro's story for tomorrow's paper?

Yes.

I have morphed into a 53(?)-year old woman with kids who works for The Age.

And you have evolved into Mordy Bromberg.

If so it makes a couple of pretty big assumptions/presumptions.

1. That Cousins will 'survive' without re-offending.
2. That Cousins will not have serious injury problems.

1. I'd be surprised if he "re-offended", TBH.
2. I'd expect that he will play in between 15 and 20 games. If he plays 10 or more reasonable games - by his standards - that's a result.

It's a great move by Richmond.

And even if he DOES "re-offend", I don't think the world will come to an end. He'll be delisted by Richmond, they'll be disappointed, but they'll move on.

No player will be caught with him if he starts to "re-offend". They'll be all too aware.

I think Cousins, out of his comfort zone and in a new team environment, won't stuff up.

Our closest example is Michael Gardiner. Hasn't caused one iota of genuine trouble (we've all done the odd stupid thing while pissed). Injuries have been his biggest worry...but even then, he's been worth the risk.

Cousins would have been, too.

Gardiner has been worth the risk ?!

How many games did he play last year? 5, maybe?

How many games has he had a real impact on?

And he got another year extension. hmmm, not for mine.

[WayneJudson42]

1- Ben's first choice would have been togo back to the WCE. The only reason he considered other clubs was because they didn't want him back, and so he had no choice. (So?)

2- Please stay away from the Westgate and Bolte bridge for the next 48 hours. (only if you promise you will jump)

Who asked you? Once again, you can't help yourself and make silly comments.

so its ok for you to make silly statements and comments

but not for Me[/quote]He has a point there Wayne [/quote]

No he does not... my comments are in response to his baiting and sarcasm. If he wasn't such a twit, he'd be treated differently.

[WayneJudson42]

Is that Caro's story for tomorrow's paper?

If so it makes a couple of pretty big assumptions/presumptions.

1. That Cousins will 'survive' without re-offending.
2. That Cousins will not have serious injury problems.[/quote]

It is certainly a risk, but surely one worth taking? Richmond were better going into the decision in blind faith, there is such a thing as overanalysing....[/quote]

Soory, but that's laughable IMO. If we go in blind faith and he fails, then everyone will be on here canning the board for making an impulsive decision.

For once... i repeat... for once the board made an informed decision. Do i like it? No. But the fact remains they made an informed decision, for you cannot blame them for.

[sunsaint]

ST KILDA should have taken Ben Cousins.

It is as simple as that.

But they didn't - and while the brilliant midfielder turns 31 in late June next year - he's due for an enourmous finish to his career at Punt Rd.

Effectively, Cousins has not played a full season in two years. But his stint during the second half of 2007 proved how awesome he can still be, even with time out of the game. Given that his body has had only limited physical toll of late, it is safe to assume he will be in far better condition than those of the same age. It could even prolong his career for an extra year or two.

He is unlikely to ever reach his peak again. Nor is he going to lift any side to a flag on his own. But that is beside the point. He is a world-class athlete with a world-class work ethic, added to an insatiable desire to win.

That can only be a good thing. And for a side like St Kilda, who lacks pacy midfielders, he would have been a god-send. He would have drawn attention away from the likes of Hayes, Ball and Dal Santo, enabling them to have a greater impact. The latter two of that pairing would have benefited enormously.

But instead, he'll take the heat from players like Deledio, Tambling and Cotchin. He'll allow them to grow and evolve in the next few years, and if they can take his training track lead, they'll become superb players.

Ultimately, it's a punt that Richmond must be congratulated for making. It won't change their world, but it will make their team better both now and in the future as their players come to grips with what made him such a dominant midfielder for so long.

And going into 2009, a year where they are predicted to make inroads into the eight, they couldn't have picked a better player - or story - to spark their season.

But it's a gamble the Saints should have made. He was the ideal fit for their team, and the momentum of his signing could have revived a legitimate feeling of optimism.

They must quickly find a way to erase the overwhelming feeling of deflation.

Agree 100%

The most sensible post on this (mostly comedy act) thread.

agree 100% on both points.
Not once in this whole BC saga have i seen a thread asking for people to put their names to an anti Cousins compaign. The difference between the Tigers & so called "passionless" saints supporters is that we did not get the chance because of the 11th hour board decision. All we could do was a 20pg shock thread. I'm sure he was set in his mind he was coming to us, so I hope he embraces the yellow and black and gives it his best.

but the award for the comedy "quote of the thread" goes to...
WJ42... "As stated, I would have been happy to draft him."

[Solar]

did not read any of the thread but to answer the thread title

Difference is

St kilda did a 5 month investigation which included a series of interviews with the player. They also conducted a review of the playing list and have backed this up by not drafting anyone under the age of 23. The board did not do a backflip when the supporters arked up. Thus the coach and his management team have been supported. (I am assuming ross and drain had a hand in the list review). The club also backed their coach by giving him an extra year so that he is not forced to just coach for results.

Richmond has a coach whose contract will come up at the end of the year, was not backed by his president. He has a ex flag winning coach behind him perhaps sharpening the knives. His list manager came out yesterday and said they would not be selecting him. The tigers fans screamed blue murder and by today they selected him. Thus hanging cameron (list manager) out to dry. They have barely had time to dot the I's and cross the T's. There is no suggestion that the club has any plan for his rehab.

Personally I believe that Cousins made the wrong noises when st kilda and brisbane were deciding on him. He also did not fit where the list was heading. Plus there are question marks over his body (hammy's) and ability to get back. Richmond has a struggling coach willing to do anything to hold onto power. This is all about politics and support gathering by certain elements at richmond.

Perhaps richmond is the right club for him, perhaps his body will hold up. Perhaps the club will be able to help him get over his addiction. Perhaps if cousins made the noises he did in the past 2 weeks behind door earlier he would have been a saint.

Lots of perhaps, now we get to see how this gamble pays off for richmond.

But why the abuse at our club. It seems fashionable to bitch and moan about the decisions in hindsight and with barely any actual information. We made a gutsy decision by deciding to not take a 31 year old druggie who has soft tissue injury history and has not played for two years. Instead we have gone for youth.

[evertonfc]

Deal with the facts people... FACTS! Not hypothisies.

Ok.

Here's the facts.

Ben Cousins was available. A recovering drug addict, but also one of the greatest players ever.

Them's the facts. Here's my take on the facts.

He's a risk. But one not as huge as 15 clubs feared. I think think they were less fearful of Ben himself and overestimated the potential fallout of a) him signing and b) him stuffing up.

I believe that in actual fact, his signing has been a massive POSITIVE for Richmond. No backlash in sight whatsoever. If anything, his signing is generating huge interest in memberships, and their sponsors are getting unreal exposure. Dick Smith would be delighted at how much exposure their brand is getting. I know I would be.

If he stuffs up and goes back to his old ways, Richmond delist him and move him on. I would be shocked if any player was dragged down with him. Shocked.

The upside? Ben gets back to 90% of his old self and plays out three years of solid footy, and Richmond play a massive role in doing a good thing by a human being who's skills we've come to admire for the past decade.

And he shows their midfielders how to gut-run, kick goals and be an elite, damaging players.

It's a worthwhile risk.

No YOU must find a way to erase YOUR overwhelming feeling of deflation

You obviously don't come on here a lot.

There's about five of you ferociously waving the anti-Cousins flag like it would have been the end of the world if he'd joined us.

[Solar]

Deal with the facts people... FACTS! Not hypothisies.

Ok.

Here's the facts.

Ben Cousins was available. A recovering drug addict, but also one of the greatest players ever.

Them's the facts. Here's my take on the facts.

He's a risk. But one not as huge as 15 clubs feared. I think think they were less fearful of Ben himself and overestimated the potential fallout of a) him signing and b) him stuffing up.

I believe that in actual fact, his signing has been a massive POSITIVE for Richmond. No backlash in sight whatsoever. If anything, his signing is generating huge interest in memberships, and their sponsors are getting unreal exposure. Dick Smith would be delighted at how much exposure their brand is getting. I know I would be.

If he stuffs up and goes back to his old ways, Richmond delist him and move him on. I would be shocked if any player was dragged down with him. Shocked.

The upside? Ben gets back to 90% of his old self and plays out three years of solid footy, and Richmond play a massive role in doing a good thing by a human being who's skills we've come to admire for the past decade.

And he shows their midfielders how to gut-run, kick goals and be an elite, damaging players.

It's a worthwhile risk.

ev

do you think the club would have perhaps made a different decision if ben had

1) actually gone out of his way to court a club and convince them
2) not shaved his hair

I have a feeling these (along with his age and injury history) are what scared off our club.

Also I have a feeling that ben dropped his salary price and will now play for peanuts (he must have thought it was all over when brisbane said no).

Sometimes circumstances can change after someone has made a decision. Ever bought petrol and then driven down the highway and seen it for 10 cents cheaper

[evertonfc]

Fair questions Solar.

1. Convincing the club - I think if you read Ricky Nixon's comments today, that he only mentions St Kilda's decision as a "disappointment" for Ben indicated how much he wanted to come here. From what I have heard, BC had us as his #1 club for the month leading up to the draft. One of the club posters on here may correct me, but that is my understanding.

2. Waxing - He shouldn't have done it - poor judgement - but I half-feel it's a media beat-up, to be honest.

3. Price drop - perhaps a good reason why the club should have held on for a little longer. At $150k - or whatever his price - he maybe wasn't worth it. But at the cost of a sixth-round pick, perhaps he was.

[Solar]

Fair questions Solar.

1. Convincing the club - I think if you read Ricky Nixon's comments today, that he only mentions St Kilda's decision as a "disappointment" for Ben indicated how much he wanted to come here. From what I have heard, BC had us as his #1 club for the month leading up to the draft. One of the club posters on here may correct me, but that is my understanding.

2. Waxing - He shouldn't have done it - poor judgement - but I half-feel it's a media beat-up, to be honest.

3. Price drop - perhaps a good reason why the club should have held on for a little longer. At $150k - or whatever his price - he maybe wasn't worth it. But at the cost of a sixth-round pick, perhaps he was.

which is why we might never know unless you get all the parties very drunk and get the real story.....

but from where I sat leading up the the national draft it was stkilda doing the running, ben was off surfing and seemed to not cared less. If I was him I would have been out running, working in the gym, hell go have a kick to kick in the park. He seemed to have tickets on himself and assumed he was off to st kilda. Perhaps this was a nixon/st kilda miss communication.

Then when st kilda and brisbane said no he seemed to start making calls, talking to sheeds among others. Nixon would have also taken any price off ben's head, fire sale (gone from 2 clubs wanting him to none.... thats when prices fall).....

richmond decided to go for a short term fix against the views of their list management. The AFL and others are only happy because it gets them off the hook, they would have been accused by some of not wanting ben to come back...... even if thats completely wrong.

Difference

richmond had a different set of circumstances to deal with. Personally I worry that they have jumped in with no sense of what it will take to look after tis guy. Everyone forgets there needs to be a rehab plan among other things.

We shall see

[WayneJudson42]

Deal with the facts people... FACTS! Not hypothisies.

Ok.

Here's the facts.

Ben Cousins was available. A recovering drug addict, but also one of the greatest players ever.

Them's the facts. Here's my take on the facts.

He's a risk. But one not as huge as 15 clubs feared. I think think they were less fearful of Ben himself and overestimated the potential fallout of a) him signing and b) him stuffing up.

I believe that in actual fact, his signing has been a massive POSITIVE for Richmond. No backlash in sight whatsoever. If anything, his signing is generating huge interest in memberships, and their sponsors are getting unreal exposure. Dick Smith would be delighted at how much exposure their brand is getting. I know I would be.

If he stuffs up and goes back to his old ways, Richmond delist him and move him on. I would be shocked if any player was dragged down with him. Shocked.

The upside? Ben gets back to 90% of his old self and plays out three years of solid footy, and Richmond play a massive role in doing a good thing by a human being who's skills we've come to admire for the past decade.

And he shows their midfielders how to gut-run, kick goals and be an elite, damaging players.

It's a worthwhile risk.

No YOU must find a way to erase YOUR overwhelming feeling of deflation

You obviously don't come on here a lot.

There's about five of you ferociously waving the anti-Cousins flag like it would have been the end of the world if he'd joined us.

Ok, so the first 3 are facts... the rst are merely opinions based on your view of the situation.

So where's the facts that we got it wrong? I don't give a fig about Richmond and I would have loved to have Cuz join us. What I dislike is people canning the club based on assumptions, or their assumptions of what the facts really are.

If it was so clear cut, we would have taken him.

Until I see the truth, I can't judge one way or the other. And just as there are five or so waving the flag... there's quite afew more who are still (yourself included) waving the pro-Cousins flag as if it's the end of the world because we didn't get him.

If and when the facts prove otherwise, I'll stand corrected.

Good post Solar, btw.

[Solar]

btw

I was pro cousins but since the decision by the club I have seen only evidence they are keeping to the decision to go young. If they had decided to get a couple of 30 year olds with bad histories then perhaps I would view all this differently.....

[bobmurray]

I think it says it all about the mindset of some on here that the thread about a player we DIDNT get is longer that about the players that we DID pick up today

The only reason this thread has gone on and on is because a few of the boards master baters have decided to have a pissing contest,at least they confined it to this urinal and haven't sprayed the whole forum....

terrible thread really....IMHO....

[evertonfc]

If and when the facts prove otherwise, I'll stand corrected.

Quite frankly, my opinion is based on facts.

So if it ever comes out that Richmond have made a grave mistake, I guess I'll apologise at that point.

But until then, when you weigh up the facts, we made a mistake in not taking him.

You can disagree with that if you like. And it seems you do. So there's not much more to say, really...

[BigMart]

Did they decide that this year Solar......S.King...very beneficial.....

Youth is not always the answer....they may never make it...

[evertonfc]

Did they decide that this year Solar......S.King...very beneficial.....

Youth is not always the answer....they may never make it...

I'm delighted we've added 14 young players to our list (Ray + 6 ND + 7 Rookies??) since September 2008.

That's great.

But I don't think 13 + Ben Cousins means we would have abandoned our youth policy.

Fair call?

[rexy]

I personally wanted Cousins at the Saints badly but now that its all said and done i'd rather have my club say no after 5 months of research and meetings with Cousins than say yes after coming in at the last minute and only doing so after buckling to pressure from a group of angry members

I hope he gets back to playing good footy next year for the Tigers.

Just not when we're playing them!

extremely sensible post

[Solar]

Did they decide that this year Solar......S.King...very beneficial.....

Youth is not always the answer....they may never make it...

they did a investigation on the list, decided not to take older players and stuck to it. That is my only point.

btw before you start on the gardiner, he played in 2008 and the club was confident he will play a role next year and has fixed his off field issues. not sure you can say the same with cousins....

best thing about football is everyone has an opinion....

[WayneJudson42]

ST KILDA should have taken Ben Cousins.

It is as simple as that.

But they didn't - and while the brilliant midfielder turns 31 in late June next year - he's due for an enourmous finish to his career at Punt Rd.

Effectively, Cousins has not played a full season in two years. But his stint during the second half of 2007 proved how awesome he can still be, even with time out of the game. Given that his body has had only limited physical toll of late, it is safe to assume he will be in far better condition than those of the same age. It could even prolong his career for an extra year or two.

He is unlikely to ever reach his peak again. Nor is he going to lift any side to a flag on his own. But that is beside the point. He is a world-class athlete with a world-class work ethic, added to an insatiable desire to win.

That can only be a good thing. And for a side like St Kilda, who lacks pacy midfielders, he would have been a god-send. He would have drawn attention away from the likes of Hayes, Ball and Dal Santo, enabling them to have a greater impact. The latter two of that pairing would have benefited enormously.

But instead, he'll take the heat from players like Deledio, Tambling and Cotchin. He'll allow them to grow and evolve in the next few years, and if they can take his training track lead, they'll become superb players.

Ultimately, it's a punt that Richmond must be congratulated for making. It won't change their world, but it will make their team better both now and in the future as their players come to grips with what made him such a dominant midfielder for so long.

And going into 2009, a year where they are predicted to make inroads into the eight, they couldn't have picked a better player - or story - to spark their season.

But it's a gamble the Saints should have made. He was the ideal fit for their team, and the momentum of his signing could have revived a legitimate feeling of optimism.

They must quickly find a way to erase the overwhelming feeling of deflation.

Agree 100%

The most sensible post on this (mostly comedy act) thread.

agree 100% on both points.
Not once in this whole BC saga have i seen a thread asking for people to put their names to an anti Cousins compaign. The difference between the Tigers & so called "passionless" saints supporters is that we did not get the chance because of the 11th hour board decision. All we could do was a 20pg shock thread. I'm sure he was set in his mind he was coming to us, so I hope he embraces the yellow and black and gives it his best.

but the award for the comedy "quote of the thread" goes to...
WJ42... "As stated, I would have been happy to draft him."

you obviously enjoy lining me up. nice to see i annoy you so much... go thru your 20 page shock thread and show me where i was against getting him.

once again, u take a swipe but don't check your facts. now that's comedy with a capital C.

My beef is with people who are bagging the club decisions without knoiwng the facts. I would have thought it was simple.

Oh, and where were the tigger fans last month??? urging their board to get BC??? Not! They all jumped on at the last minute. Perrleeeeze.

Up until then, there was no mention about him. Let's face it, the cards fell Richmonds way, and the played their hand.

From what I've heard, then good luck to them. I wanted Ben, but I think the headshave wasn't some sort of protest TBH.

[BigMart]

My point on Gardner has zero to do wit 2008.....and more to do with the decision to take him in 2006....with the same issues as Cuz (without the ability).

He had not 'changed his ways' then, they took a gamble on him after two meeting in a short space of time....he did not have a 5 month investigation done on him....if he did he would NOT have been recruited......along with many other current stars, dig deep enough you will always find some problems, buddy oath you will....

[WayneJudson42]

If and when the facts prove otherwise, I'll stand corrected.

Quite frankly, my opinion is based on facts.

So if it ever comes out that Richmond have made a grave mistake, I guess I'll apologise at that point.

But until then, when you weigh up the facts, we made a mistake in not taking him.

You can disagree with that if you like. And it seems you do. So there's not much more to say, really...

I'm not disagreeing at all. In fact, I'm all ears. Please tell me the facts as to why we didn't take him, and I'll be on the clubs doorstep tomorrow to voice my opinion and disgust that they farked up.

Your "facts" as you stated are all about Richmond. I'll be happy to hear the facts about why we didn't pick him up... when you're ready to back up your opinons.

[Mr Magic]

My point on Gardner has zero to do wit 2008.....and more to do with the decision to take him in 2006....with the same issues as Cuz (without the ability).

He had not 'changed his ways' then, they took a gamble on him after two meeting in a short space of time....he did not have a 5 month investigation done on him....if he did he would NOT have been recruited......along with many other current stars, dig deep enough you will always find some problems, buddy oath you will....

Some times you don't even have to dig that deep!

[WayneJudson42]

Fair questions Solar.

1. Convincing the club - I think if you read Ricky Nixon's comments today, that he only mentions St Kilda's decision as a "disappointment" for Ben indicated how much he wanted to come here. From what I have heard, BC had us as his #1 club for the month leading up to the draft. One of the club posters on here may correct me, but that is my understanding.

2. Waxing - He shouldn't have done it - poor judgement - but I half-feel it's a media beat-up, to be honest.

3. Price drop - perhaps a good reason why the club should have held on for a little longer. At $150k - or whatever his price - he maybe wasn't worth it. But at the cost of a sixth-round pick, perhaps he was.

Sorry mate, and I'll put this as respectfully as possible: Delusions of grandeur.

1- Nixon only represents Cousins. Why was he dissapointed? Because he really wanted to be a Saint? Or because he was confidant that he was a cert to be picked up. From what I know, his #1 pref was WCE.

2- What media beat up? The guy was pure dumb to do that... not to mention going to the funeral. Ben has been his own worst enemy IMO. Tese are not the most intelligent things to do if you want to prove that you've reformed.

3- invalid argument. If they held on longer someone else migth have got him... besides, they could have told him that it was price and see what happened after that.

I respect your posts, but please, I am just as confused over this as the next person. So if you have facts to back it up, please enlighten me.

I reckon the filth are as professional as anyone off field, so why didn't they get him? They did quite a bit of investigating them selves.