2019 Season a disaster already

[takeaway]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

I totally agree lewdogs. I will add that imo the appointments of Lethlean and Gubby Allen were very good moves by the club. Adds some "grit" to the administration which appeared to be a bit "take it as it comes", and not proactive. Allen has great experience and knowhow, don't really care about his past indiscretion, didn't stop the Roos putting him on as a consultant, or the AFL ticking him off for the Saints appointment. As far as I am concerned, Lethlean has made a number of good moves which will help the club improve on and off the field.

[lewdogs]

lewdogs - I agree with a lot of what you have said.

But what if, as expected, we finish bottom 4 again this year?

We couldn’t then just say 2018 was a “blip”.

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. As it stands, the season starts in a week and we have reasons to be confident going into the season. Writing the whole season off before a ball is bounced seems silly. There have been good signs over the pre-season, now to see if they can turn it into decent performances on the field.

[saintspremiers]

lewdogs - I agree with a lot of what you have said.

But what if, as expected, we finish bottom 4 again this year?

We couldn’t then just say 2018 was a “blip”.

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. As it stands, the season starts in a week and we have reasons to be confident going into the season. Writing the whole season off before a ball is bounced seems silly. There have been good signs over the pre-season, now to see if they can turn it into decent performances on the field.

Silly?

Really?

I’m sure you’re aware of our massive long term injury crisis. Yes it’s a bloody crisis having your two best back men out for the season at the start.

Please don’t sugar coat the situation for what it actually is.

[saynta]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

Excellent post.

[gringo]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

We already had one pick for Clark Coffield, we ended up with two by delaying the pick for a year so that the hawks could secure JOM. The Hawks look like they might have got an A grade player out of it. We might have 2 or 0. Luke Dunstan and Savage for Mc Evoy looked like a huge win at first.

The appointments are what they are, the point is that it's not slanderous to point out their faults. Seb Ross and Steele are average for mids and Gresham is looking like he'll be an excellent player but we probably have the least star quality of any team in the AFL. It sounds tough but that's just reality. This year is the make or break for our rebuild, if by mid season we are not getting wins we probably sack the coach and go mini rebuild. Stuv is said to be unhappy if we don't improve and wants out. Billings doesn't want to sign yet either.

We can all pretend everything is perfect or we can cast an eye on what's going wrong and try to improve on it.

[Harvey To Hayes]

not quite sure whats actually being said there CQ Saint

what i said

was that dobbing must be a class based thing
... a lack of it

<1 day ban: commenting on a poster in a negative manner>

Is this banning real? You can't seriously equate saying that you don't follow a poster's train of thought with "commenting on a poster in a negative manner", that's completely unfair and in no way deserving of a ban. What the hell is going on here?

[CQ SAINT]

not quite sure whats actually being said there CQ Saint

what i said

was that dobbing must be a class based thing
... a lack of it

<1 day ban: commenting on a poster in a negative manner>

Is this banning real? You can't seriously equate saying that you don't follow a poster's train of thought with "commenting on a poster in a negative manner", that's completely unfair and in no way deserving of a ban. What the hell is going on here?

I think the problem may be the inferred lack of class by the person who reported the post.

[BackFromUSA]

And all this outrage over “banning”? So for one day (not a lifetime but a mere 24 hours) that poster cannot post but they can still read the forum. It hardly seems outrage worthy! If people want to post all the time, then stay within the rules. In this particular case the poster was accusing another poster of lacking class. In the past that baiting would have exploded into full on bickering that would have jammed up the forum for days and weeks and in some cases months and years.

[BackFromUSA]

And all this outrage over “banning”? So for one day (not a lifetime but a mere 24 hours) that poster cannot post but they can still read the forum. It hardly seems outrage worthy! If people want to post all the time, then stay within the rules. In this particular case the poster was accusing another poster of lacking class. In the past that baiting would have exploded into full on bickering that would have jammed up the forum for days and weeks and in some cases months and years. The new rules are in place to try to prevent that occurring.

[lewdogs]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

We already had one pick for Clark Coffield, we ended up with two by delaying the pick for a year so that the hawks could secure JOM. The Hawks look like they might have got an A grade player out of it. We might have 2 or 0. Luke Dunstan and Savage for Mc Evoy looked like a huge win at first.

The appointments are what they are, the point is that it's not slanderous to point out their faults. Seb Ross and Steele are average for mids and Gresham is looking like he'll be an excellent player but we probably have the least star quality of any team in the AFL. It sounds tough but that's just reality. This year is the make or break for our rebuild, if by mid season we are not getting wins we probably sack the coach and go mini rebuild. Stuv is said to be unhappy if we don't improve and wants out. Billings doesn't want to sign yet either.

We can all pretend everything is perfect or we can cast an eye on what's going wrong and try to improve on it.

You're completely misrepresenting that trade. We traded them the pick 10 that they needed for JOM, we were never getting him. They gave us a few back, the picks that got us Long and Battle as well as Clark (who went at 7, we originally only had 8, so we would not have gotten him). The bloke that went at pick 10 was Florent. So essentially we got Long, Battle and Clark for Florent. It was a superb trade for us. If they got an A-grader in JOM out of it that's beside the point because we were never getting him.

[samuraisaint]

lewdogs - I agree with a lot of what you have said.

But what if, as expected, we finish bottom 4 again this year?

We couldn’t then just say 2018 was a “blip”.

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. As it stands, the season starts in a week and we have reasons to be confident going into the season. Writing the whole season off before a ball is bounced seems silly. There have been good signs over the pre-season, now to see if they can turn it into decent performances on the field.

Yes, but our good form in the pre-season practice games was in no small part due to two players who won't play all year in Roberton's case and may not play at all in 2019 in Paddy McCartin.
I think we can still win 8-9 matches due to incremental improvement in some of our players who have been on the list for four or five years, but if ever we need Steven, Ross, Dunstan and Armitage to lift it is now.

I believe the move back to Moorabbin was a major factor in our form downturn in 2018. Hopefully, now, the club will allow the cobblers to cobble, and let the team focus on winning games of footy, because at the end of the day, that is all I really care about.

[gringo]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

We already had one pick for Clark Coffield, we ended up with two by delaying the pick for a year so that the hawks could secure JOM. The Hawks look like they might have got an A grade player out of it. We might have 2 or 0. Luke Dunstan and Savage for Mc Evoy looked like a huge win at first.

The appointments are what they are, the point is that it's not slanderous to point out their faults. Seb Ross and Steele are average for mids and Gresham is looking like he'll be an excellent player but we probably have the least star quality of any team in the AFL. It sounds tough but that's just reality. This year is the make or break for our rebuild, if by mid season we are not getting wins we probably sack the coach and go mini rebuild. Stuv is said to be unhappy if we don't improve and wants out. Billings doesn't want to sign yet either.

We can all pretend everything is perfect or we can cast an eye on what's going wrong and try to improve on it.

You're completely misrepresenting that trade. We traded them the pick 10 that they needed for JOM, we were never getting him. They gave us a few back, the picks that got us Long and Battle as well as Clark (who went at 7, we originally only had 8, so we would not have gotten him). The bloke that went at pick 10 was Florent. So essentially we got Long, Battle and Clark for Florent. It was a superb trade for us. If they got an A-grader in JOM out of it that's beside the point because we were never getting him.

We pulled out of the JOM race due to his injury history... ten went after Hanners knowing his injury history. It's not actually possible to know who would go where with trades because Clark may have gone to the Hawks...or he might not have. Anyway, we have to wait and see what Clark and Coffield end up, right now we need classy players and more experience, we must have thought our list was pretty advanced to decide to not draft that year and delay it. I think we thought the Hawks might finish bottom 3 or 4 as well.

Anyway, my point is more we have made plenty of list management/ draft mistakes and still apart from Gresham we haven't drafted very well since Stuv...who is our best player picked since the early to mid 2000s. Seb Ross and Webster are our best draftees since Stuv. Carlisle, Bruce and Steele are good pick ups from other clubs and Steele looks like he could be an excellent player. Billings still has potential. For some reason even though we haven't been acing the drafting, we persisted with Trout for a very long time. I think it should have been addressed by Lethlean in a more dramatic way last year. We essentially just moved jobs between Trout and Libba. Trout seems to have finally left for Essendon on his own.

t the end of the day the club is being managed but is our club. If they don't do a good job they should be accountable. I hope they have it right, and they are better than the last lot but the proof is in how we progress from here. Another 4 years of rebuilding and Moorabin becomes a $12 million nightmare.

[sunsaint]

not quite sure whats actually being said there CQ Saint

what i said

was that dobbing must be a class based thing
... a lack of it

<1 day ban: commenting on a poster in a negative manner>

Is this banning real? You can't seriously equate saying that you don't follow a poster's train of thought with "commenting on a poster in a negative manner", that's completely unfair and in no way deserving of a ban. What the hell is going on here?

I think the problem may be the inferred lack of class by the person who reported the post.

but how can the post target another person if the reporting function is ANONYMOUS

[takeaway]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

We already had one pick for Clark Coffield, we ended up with two by delaying the pick for a year so that the hawks could secure JOM. The Hawks look like they might have got an A grade player out of it. We might have 2 or 0. Luke Dunstan and Savage for Mc Evoy looked like a huge win at first.

The appointments are what they are, the point is that it's not slanderous to point out their faults. Seb Ross and Steele are average for mids and Gresham is looking like he'll be an excellent player but we probably have the least star quality of any team in the AFL. It sounds tough but that's just reality. This year is the make or break for our rebuild, if by mid season we are not getting wins we probably sack the coach and go mini rebuild. Stuv is said to be unhappy if we don't improve and wants out. Billings doesn't want to sign yet either.

We can all pretend everything is perfect or we can cast an eye on what's going wrong and try to improve on it.

And Acres.

[saynta]

Don't agree that Ross or Steele are average footballers. Ross, whilst not elite is certainly above average and Steele will be considered elite if we start winning a few games.

Steele's stats stand up in comparison with the competition's young elite.

[CQ SAINT]

not quite sure whats actually being said there CQ Saint

what i said

was that dobbing must be a class based thing
... a lack of it

<1 day ban: commenting on a poster in a negative manner>

Is this banning real? You can't seriously equate saying that you don't follow a poster's train of thought with "commenting on a poster in a negative manner", that's completely unfair and in no way deserving of a ban. What the hell is going on here?

I think the problem may be the inferred lack of class by the person who reported the post.

but how can the post target another person if the reporting function is ANONYMOUS

I dont know for sure. I dont make the rulings but my guess is that a report was made by a 'poster' and Asiu made his comment about 'lack of class' on that report and poster. his post may have been seen as insulting and inflammatory. I dont think it's necessary. I think it is all a bit childish. If I get a day for that then i probably deserve it.

[gringo]

Don't agree that Ross or Steele are average footballers. Ross, whilst not elite is certainly above average and Steele will be considered elite if we start winning a few games.

Steele's states stand up in comparison with the competition's young elite.

When I think of the elite young mids I think Clayton Oliver, he's not there yet but his last half a year was very good as a tagger. He could potentially become a gun, potentially most of our players are elite.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S

[gringo]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

We already had one pick for Clark Coffield, we ended up with two by delaying the pick for a year so that the hawks could secure JOM. The Hawks look like they might have got an A grade player out of it. We might have 2 or 0. Luke Dunstan and Savage for Mc Evoy looked like a huge win at first.

The appointments are what they are, the point is that it's not slanderous to point out their faults. Seb Ross and Steele are average for mids and Gresham is looking like he'll be an excellent player but we probably have the least star quality of any team in the AFL. It sounds tough but that's just reality. This year is the make or break for our rebuild, if by mid season we are not getting wins we probably sack the coach and go mini rebuild. Stuv is said to be unhappy if we don't improve and wants out. Billings doesn't want to sign yet either.

We can all pretend everything is perfect or we can cast an eye on what's going wrong and try to improve on it.

And Acres.

And going into 6 years since the trade not one is regular best 22, Mc Evoy has two more premierships than the Saints FC and their rebuild looks like it was pretty short. It sucks to be a Saints supporter.

[twirlyhair]

lewdogs - I agree with a lot of what you have said.

But what if, as expected, we finish bottom 4 again this year?

We couldn’t then just say 2018 was a “blip”.

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. As it stands, the season starts in a week and we have reasons to be confident going into the season. Writing the whole season off before a ball is bounced seems silly. There have been good signs over the pre-season, now to see if they can turn it into decent performances on the field.

Silly?

Really?

I’m sure you’re aware of our massive long term injury crisis. Yes it’s a bloody crisis having your two best back men out for the season at the start.

Please don’t sugar coat the situation for what it actually is.

Haha...some things never change! The ironically named saints premiers still taking every chance to write off the saints. Classic troll if I have ever seen one.

[To the top]

The faults of the past have been what they are - and you can not go backwards in time

To the doomsayers, I ask this ...

Starting from the Draft which delivered Billings, Dunstan and Acres to the Club, List the ages of these players now and how many games they have played

Because that is the future - noting also that the players listed have not had the benefit of established Senior players to support their entry to AFL football as 18 year olds and particularly absent Fisher, Dempster, Riewoldt and Montagna

These players have not had the benefit of being “under the radar” because of the presence of others

What we do currently is look for the signs, as we did post Riewoldt and Koschitzke and the others who gave us the side we had from that time

[takeaway]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

We already had one pick for Clark Coffield, we ended up with two by delaying the pick for a year so that the hawks could secure JOM. The Hawks look like they might have got an A grade player out of it. We might have 2 or 0. Luke Dunstan and Savage for Mc Evoy looked like a huge win at first.

The appointments are what they are, the point is that it's not slanderous to point out their faults. Seb Ross and Steele are average for mids and Gresham is looking like he'll be an excellent player but we probably have the least star quality of any team in the AFL. It sounds tough but that's just reality. This year is the make or break for our rebuild, if by mid season we are not getting wins we probably sack the coach and go mini rebuild. Stuv is said to be unhappy if we don't improve and wants out. Billings doesn't want to sign yet either.

We can all pretend everything is perfect or we can cast an eye on what's going wrong and try to improve on it.

And Acres.

And going into 6 years since the trade not one is regular best 22, Mc Evoy has two more premierships than the Saints FC and their rebuild looks like it was pretty short. It sucks to be a Saints supporter.

I think all 3 are best 22 when fit, McEvoy has done well, but went into a top team who may well have won 2014-15 anyway without him. McEvoy and Hartung vs Savage, Acres & Dunstan? I reckon Saints did OK.

[gringo]

The faults of the past have been what they are - and you can not go backwards in time

To the doomsayers, I ask this ...

Starting from the Draft which delivered Billings, Dunstan and Acres to the Club, List the ages of these players now and how many games they have played

Because that is the future - noting also that the players listed have not had the benefit of established Senior players to support their entry to AFL football as 18 year olds and particularly absent Fisher, Dempster, Riewoldt and Montagna

These players have not had the benefit of being “under the radar” because of the presence of others

What we do currently is look for the signs, as we did post Riewoldt and Koschitzke and the others who gave us the side we had from that time

I guess you are addressing me, I'm no doomsayer, I'm just pointing out that there was nothing wrong with pointing out faults with the club, we all make them. This season will really sort the wheat from the chaff, if we are on less than 3 wins by midseason I can't see Richo surviving, it also means that that generation of players has not progressed in all likelihood. Last year was a poor year by too many players and if we are to go back up the ladder we need guys like Billings, Acres and Dunstan to become what they promised they might be.

My whole point was it's crazy to banish someone for free speech. Home truths aren't the devil, complacency and not learning from mistakes is. It's hard to hear but you can't progress without some self assessment. I can see us progressing if we take he set backs in the right way, but I can also make a pretty good case for being set in the bottom 4. It's not a foregone thing but what started out as a preseason with a bit of momentum has taken a few hits and needs to start turning positive to keep the players on the right path.

[gringo]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

We already had one pick for Clark Coffield, we ended up with two by delaying the pick for a year so that the hawks could secure JOM. The Hawks look like they might have got an A grade player out of it. We might have 2 or 0. Luke Dunstan and Savage for Mc Evoy looked like a huge win at first.

The appointments are what they are, the point is that it's not slanderous to point out their faults. Seb Ross and Steele are average for mids and Gresham is looking like he'll be an excellent player but we probably have the least star quality of any team in the AFL. It sounds tough but that's just reality. This year is the make or break for our rebuild, if by mid season we are not getting wins we probably sack the coach and go mini rebuild. Stuv is said to be unhappy if we don't improve and wants out. Billings doesn't want to sign yet either.

We can all pretend everything is perfect or we can cast an eye on what's going wrong and try to improve on it.

And Acres.

And going into 6 years since the trade not one is regular best 22, Mc Evoy has two more premierships than the Saints FC and their rebuild looks like it was pretty short. It sucks to be a Saints supporter.

I think all 3 are best 22 when fit, McEvoy has done well, but went into a top team who may well have won 2014-15 anyway without him. McEvoy and Hartung vs Savage, Acres & Dunstan? I reckon Saints did OK.

I would say all three have had plenty of time fit and ready to go but none have cemented a spot. Acres injury last year seemed to be at a time when he was playing well. Dunstan is looking like he needs to tun around his fitness and form and start dominating venture bounces, he's one the crossroad this year. He either makes it as B grade mid or delisted at the end of the year. Savage is the most likely to become regular best 22, he's playing well preseason, has the love of the coaches with Ratten there, and has been given the kick in duties.

Mc Evoy ended up being a very good player while we have over paid for Hickey who we ditched cheap and Longer who has been injury prone and disappointedly average. It looked a winner on paper is all I'm saying but in hindsight it wasn't a great trade for us.

[WellardSaint]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

I have to agree with this.
If Luke Beveridge can threaten to punch Barrett violently about some rumour, then that's suitable for a law suit.

When Barrett says
- his mail is that the Lions' captain is hugely unpopular
- most Lions players hate him
- the Lions' captain comes out swinging;
That's another one suitable for a law suit.

Barrett gets a lot of airtime.
Here, just a bunch of grandpa Simpson characters shouting at the moon.
Judge hearing the case of StKFC vs Simon/Saintsational, speaking to legal council for the Saints:
" You are a qualified legal practitioner, and you want to waste this court's time on something this nebulous and frivilous?"

[BackFromUSA]

Just a couple of notes:

- it is rare for mass media to be sued because they have deep pockets, lawyers on retainer (meaning they will appeal any decision until they win or their opponent runs out of money) and they have a history of never losing

- Saintsational as a platform isn’t liable for the opinions expressed here and the individuals that post are

- if a court orders Saintsational to hand over registration and IP details for a poster or posters, then there is no real choice but to do so

Posting anonymously here or BigFooty does not give you immunity from legal prosecution.

Is it likely to happen? No. But if the harm becomes big enough. Yes.

And twice in the past few years that I have been administrator we have been contacted by lawyers to remove content and after gaining permission to do so from the poster the thread has been removed. In addition there has been one copyright warning from mass media.