Gresham

[repta]

A post before said that saints will be a new look with

Dow Sheil Henry
Mackenzie and Jones back

Who exactly is making.way for all these players?

[nostalgicsaint]

A post before said that saints will be a new look with

Dow Sheil Henry
Mackenzie and Jones back

Who exactly is making.way for all these players?

Based on our final team.
Out: Cordy, Webster, Gresham, Sharman
In: Howard, Henry, Shiel, Dow

Battle, Wilkie, Howard
Windy, Sinclair, Milera
Henry, Steele, Wood
Hill, Higgins, Owens
Butler, Hammer, King

Marshall
Crouch
Shiel

Clark, Pou, Ross, Dow

Sub: Stocker

Emg: Billings, Jones, Mckenzie, Cordy, Sharman, Hayes

[D.B.Cooper]

Shiel at his best was a jet. He is the type of mid we are lacking. I'll back Ross to get him back near his best, if not his best and get 2 or maybe 3 good years out of him.

If the rumours are true, that Essendon are willing to offer Gresham enough to trigger a 1st round compo for us (supposedly pick 13). In exchange for offloading Shiel and getting pick 50 in return, then that's quite a deal.

That would give us picks 12 & 13 which we could possibly trade to Gold Coast for pick 4. All that in effect, for Gresham & pick 50. I'd be doing that deal in a heartbeat.

The deal would be Gresham, pick 12 and 50 for shiel and pick 4

?????
Can not happen

The logic above is a stretch but looks like this

Saints trade pick 50 for shiel as a salary dump.
Gresham selected as a free agent by essendon paying overs and giving us pick 12
Saints trade pick 12 and 13 for pick 4

That is what I said.
The previous post stated that we could get pick 4 for Gresham and pick 50.
Its actually Gresham, pick 12 and pick 50 used to get pick 4 and Shiel.
I personally don't think we will get pick 4 and would rather not get Shiel.

And then give Freo pick 31 for Henry

If we want to bring in young talent I think Henry will be traded for a future pick unless someone like Coffield also goes and we use that pick.

Issue is if Coffield goes to North he can walk for free.

Hopefully Coffield backs himself, takes the 2 year deal at Saints and gets to FA.

In #12 + #13 (Gresham compo) + #31
Plus Dow (DFA) + Henry future 2nd + Shiel #50 and his wage

Hopeful but not expected.

Really don’t want Shiel or Dow.

Concerned Silvagni might return to his Carlton/GWS MO and recruit failed former high draft picks like O’Brien.

[Dis Believer]

Shiel at his best was a jet. He is the type of mid we are lacking. I'll back Ross to get him back near his best, if not his best and get 2 or maybe 3 good years out of him.

If the rumours are true, that Essendon are willing to offer Gresham enough to trigger a 1st round compo for us (supposedly pick 13). In exchange for offloading Shiel and getting pick 50 in return, then that's quite a deal.

That would give us picks 12 & 13 which we could possibly trade to Gold Coast for pick 4. All that in effect, for Gresham & pick 50. I'd be doing that deal in a heartbeat.

The deal would be Gresham, pick 12 and 50 for shiel and pick 4

?????
Can not happen

The logic above is a stretch but looks like this

Saints trade pick 50 for shiel as a salary dump.
Gresham selected as a free agent by essendon paying overs and giving us pick 12
Saints trade pick 12 and 13 for pick 4

That is what I said.
The previous post stated that we could get pick 4 for Gresham and pick 50.
Its actually Gresham, pick 12 and pick 50 used to get pick 4 and Shiel.
I personally don't think we will get pick 4 and would rather not get Shiel.

And then give Freo pick 31 for Henry

If we want to bring in young talent I think Henry will be traded for a future pick unless someone like Coffield also goes and we use that pick.

Issue is if Coffield goes to North he can walk for free.

Hopefully Coffield backs himself, takes the 2 year deal at Saints and gets to FA.

Err, no, Coffield is uncontracted, he is not a free agent, he cannot walk for free. If he goes, there has to be a trade.....

[D.B.Cooper]

Shiel at his best was a jet. He is the type of mid we are lacking. I'll back Ross to get him back near his best, if not his best and get 2 or maybe 3 good years out of him.

If the rumours are true, that Essendon are willing to offer Gresham enough to trigger a 1st round compo for us (supposedly pick 13). In exchange for offloading Shiel and getting pick 50 in return, then that's quite a deal.

That would give us picks 12 & 13 which we could possibly trade to Gold Coast for pick 4. All that in effect, for Gresham & pick 50. I'd be doing that deal in a heartbeat.

The deal would be Gresham, pick 12 and 50 for shiel and pick 4

?????
Can not happen

The logic above is a stretch but looks like this

Saints trade pick 50 for shiel as a salary dump.
Gresham selected as a free agent by essendon paying overs and giving us pick 12
Saints trade pick 12 and 13 for pick 4

That is what I said.
The previous post stated that we could get pick 4 for Gresham and pick 50.
Its actually Gresham, pick 12 and pick 50 used to get pick 4 and Shiel.
I personally don't think we will get pick 4 and would rather not get Shiel.

And then give Freo pick 31 for Henry

If we want to bring in young talent I think Henry will be traded for a future pick unless someone like Coffield also goes and we use that pick.

Issue is if Coffield goes to North he can walk for free.

Hopefully Coffield backs himself, takes the 2 year deal at Saints and gets to FA.

Err, no, Coffield is uncontracted, he is not a free agent, he cannot walk for free. If he goes, there has to be a trade.....

Coffield is not a FA but I believe he is not contracted.

Therefore if he does not re-sign with the Saints, he could nominate for the preseason draft and go to North (2nd pick).

This would leave us without compensation, effectively walking free to North, unless the preseason draft rules have changed.

[Yorkeys]

Shiel at his best was a jet. He is the type of mid we are lacking. I'll back Ross to get him back near his best, if not his best and get 2 or maybe 3 good years out of him.

If the rumours are true, that Essendon are willing to offer Gresham enough to trigger a 1st round compo for us (supposedly pick 13). In exchange for offloading Shiel and getting pick 50 in return, then that's quite a deal.

That would give us picks 12 & 13 which we could possibly trade to Gold Coast for pick 4. All that in effect, for Gresham & pick 50. I'd be doing that deal in a heartbeat.

The deal would be Gresham, pick 12 and 50 for shiel and pick 4

?????
Can not happen

The logic above is a stretch but looks like this

Saints trade pick 50 for shiel as a salary dump.
Gresham selected as a free agent by essendon paying overs and giving us pick 12
Saints trade pick 12 and 13 for pick 4

That is what I said.
The previous post stated that we could get pick 4 for Gresham and pick 50.
Its actually Gresham, pick 12 and pick 50 used to get pick 4 and Shiel.
I personally don't think we will get pick 4 and would rather not get Shiel.

And then give Freo pick 31 for Henry

If we want to bring in young talent I think Henry will be traded for a future pick unless someone like Coffield also goes and we use that pick.

Issue is if Coffield goes to North he can walk for free.

Hopefully Coffield backs himself, takes the 2 year deal at Saints and gets to FA.

Err, no, Coffield is uncontracted, he is not a free agent, he cannot walk for free. If he goes, there has to be a trade.....

Coffield is not a FA but I believe he is not contracted.

Therefore if he does not re-sign with the Saints, he could nominate for the preseason draft and go to North (2nd pick).

This would leave us without compensation, effectively walking free to North, unless the preseason draft rules have changed.

The reality is, imo, that if both Gresham and Coffield left we would not be worse off playing wise in the medium. Coffield has not played for a long time and before that was a good but not exceptional player, albeit clearly athletically talented. But so are plenty of up and comers. He has been a kept man for a while now and been given excellent medical and physio; offered a multi year contract. If after all that he can just walk away then see ya and good luck. Gresham is a tease. Trying to remember him playing well for a whole game and can't; spasmodic, like Ginnivan, although Ginny seems to make kicking goals look easier. I suppose its a perception thing but conversely I can remember him stuffing up plenty of good chances. Makes a simple game look complicated. Party tricks are fun but don't get the job done over the long term - compare to Miers, when he has the ball in a little space you can guarantee the next possession is a team mate's even though he is not a long kick.

If they both go it frees up salary cap and clears out two apparently high maintenance players. If they stay, ok, but contribute.

[nostalgicsaint]

A post before said that saints will be a new look with

Dow Sheil Henry
Mackenzie and Jones back

Who exactly is making.way for all these players?

Based on our final team.
Out: Cordy, Webster, Gresham, Sharman
In: Howard, Henry, Shiel, Dow

Battle, Wilkie, Howard
Windy, Sinclair, Milera
Henry, Steele, Wood
Hill, Higgins, Owens
Butler, Hammer, King

Marshall
Crouch
Shiel

Clark, Pou, Ross, Dow

Sub: Stocker

Emg: Billings, Jones, Mckenzie, Cordy, Sharman, Hayes

This is a pretty strong side.

Still think it lacks a genuine star midfielder. We need Steele to get back to career best form for that side to be a genuine contender.

Think 4th to 8th is our range next year if this is our side.

[magnifisaint]

Gresham nominated Bombers. He can translate his s*** disposal there.

[bobmurray]

Gresham nominated Bombers. He can translate his s*** disposal there.

More good news, it's turning into good news week.

Dodo saying Shiel staying at the Hangar.
Gresham wanting to go to the Hangar.
Collingwood interested in Billings.
Coffield wanting to go the Dogs.

[Lennylegs]

Adelaide offered end of first round pick for doodee. Bodes well for our Gresham compo. At least it should. Who knows with this murky system.

[Vortex]

Gresham nominated Bombers. He can translate his s*** disposal there.

More good news, it's turning into good news week.

Dodo saying Shiel staying at the Hangar.
Gresham wanting to go to the Hangar.
Collingwood interested in Billings.
Coffield wanting to go the Dogs.

if feels like a mass exodus

[avid]

I hate losing any players we've valued in the past -- a mass exodus feels sad, and bad!

But you can also look at it as a number of highly credentialed players leave because they can't get a game in the side.
Which indicates good!

[Brunswicksainter]

I hate losing any players we've valued in the past -- a mass exodus feels sad, and bad!

But you can also look at it as a number of highly credentialed players leave because they can't get a game in the side.
Which indicates good!

Supposedly Mackenzie, coffield, billings, Gresham and Clark are leaving. Of these coffield and clark are the only ones that I see having any sort of potential to be good enough to be premiership players.

[Vortex]

I hate losing any players we've valued in the past -- a mass exodus feels sad, and bad!

But you can also look at it as a number of highly credentialed players leave because they can't get a game in the side.
Which indicates good!

It's frustrating is absolutely a mass exodus in the context of Gresh, Billings and Coff are players that were picked to be part of a core for a list build.

[SAINT-LEE]

I'd rather see players move on that have offered little towards a dominant team and try new players via draft, academy, trades,etc.

Im glad things are shifting...better to take risks with new players than sit on injury prone "almost great" players.

McKenzie - Suns...he could definitely shine

Coffield - Dogs...not sure there's bite to back his bark

Gresham - Essendon...silky moves pepper his "bombs away" disposal technique

Billings - Collingwood...he's more likely to get his slice of grand final Pie.

Clark...stays a Saint.

[Killa]

I am drawn to the description "good side" because, whilst we participated in September this year, and were not too far off GWS with the side we were able to put on the park, GWS a definite contender with their List, a List which showed our side up physically particularly, we have some holes which need addressing.

So let's list the players, from the back line of the side offered as "good".

Battle - A most adequate foot soldier looking for a position because he lacks the height to make him defensive KPP "Class" from most adequate. A position needs to be found.

Wilkie - Class.

Howard - 199cm and required. A most adequate and committed defensive foot soldier with the attributes to contribute. Will be better with the support of a similar sized, key defender.

Windhager - A junior possessed of talent and learning the ropes to hopefully graduate to mid-field responsibilities

Sinclair - Named at CHB at 181cms. B&F at the Club off half-back and mid-field time. Hopefully transitions to the mid-field class we seek, but will be 29 years of age.

Wanganeen-Milera - Class. The next question is utilization.

Henry - We are trading for him which hopefully audits what it is anticipated he will bring to this side.

Steele - a work-horse looking for an injury free season and mid field support.

Wood - Height and skills working from defence to attack. Looking for a full season as he started 2023, but again look at his age.

Hill - An elite running machine with sublime skills and experience. We need an injury free season. But, again, look at his age.

Higgins - We need what he showed at the start of 2022, before concussions impacted. Marked on pressure and goals.

Owens - ditto Windhager

Butler - Pressure forward who kicks goals at times. Works up the ground with his pace but is not mercurial, which is our need. Workmanlike does not cut it as the GF showed.

Caminiti - A junior with the potential to become a KPP forward. Needs to put on kg's without losing pace and mobility. A season of VFL will answer the question.

King - Hopefully an elite superstar of the competition. So do we just park him at full forward?

Marshall - A super star of the competition with his skills and endeavor - more than a Ruckman, but needs support.

Crouch - A player every side needs. Look at his Brownlow voting. Will be improved by having an elite,running mid able to receive and go including at goal.

Shiel - Not coming to St Kilda, thankfully. Not the age profile we should be seeking. Would have been a good addition 5 years ago.

Clark - Needs a full, uninterrupted pre-season and season to showcase his two sided skills and courage.

Phillipou - Just a kid, who will grow into his body and add to his strength and fitness. Exceptionally clean and quick hands says elite mid-field. Plus can take a mark so can push forward leading to confusion for opposition sides.

Ross - No. A gap filler when we have no one else. Gets a game based on experience, not because he is a match winner which he is not.

Dow - A Pick 3 who could not command a regular game at Carlton.

So, from that summary, pick the holes we need to address to become a "good side", so a side going deeper into September.

I would be setting the benchmark for 2024 as GWS. Talent, size and skill with all positions occupied by at the least good players, if not very good and competition elite.

And a player I would take from elsewhere? The GCS's Captain.

[Otiman]

I dont think our lack of physicality is list based. We built a game plan on run and trained to it.

We were found out when they went physical against us and we folded. The Port game was the first of that and they're a young team.

[bobmurray]

Gresham nominated Bombers. He can translate his s*** disposal there.

More good news, it's turning into good news week.

Dodo saying Shiel staying at the Hangar.
Gresham wanting to go to the Hangar.
Collingwood interested in Billings.
Coffield wanting to go the Dogs.

if feels like a mass exodus

It feels like a mini rebuild, especially if McKenzie goes to the Suns as well.

[Killa]

No doubt our players “crack in” otherwise they would not get a game

But when you sit on the fence and see up close the difference in the sheer physical size of GWS versus St Kilda that is a commentary

And in regard Port Adelaide, they have Dixon recruited from where?

Who do we have who compares?

Who can crash packs and cause mayhem?

Then you get to the size of Green (for example) who runs around in the GWS midfield - before you get to their Ruckman among others across the park

Battle is hard, tough and competitive and he hits hard

But he is not the size of Green, a midfielder at GWS

[Killa]

And all these players who have missed plenty of football at St Kilda (and that includes Gresham who in my opinion has not been the same since his Achilles injury - he was never straight line fast but more evasive with his low centre of gravity) looking to now depart

So what goes?

[Yorkeys]

Killa, you're from SA. Hayes and Cummings didn't persist with unsound nags; sent them to other trainers. No matter the pedigree and coat if they can't get to the barrier they are just a money pit.

[Vortex]

Gresham nominated Bombers. He can translate his s*** disposal there.

More good news, it's turning into good news week.

Dodo saying Shiel staying at the Hangar.
Gresham wanting to go to the Hangar.
Collingwood interested in Billings.
Coffield wanting to go the Dogs.

if feels like a mass exodus

It feels like a mini rebuild, especially if McKenzie goes to the Suns as well.

If the arrow shooter from Port can be directed our way there could be the unthinkable....Howard.

[Scollop]

And all these players who have missed plenty of football at St Kilda (and that includes Gresham who in my opinion has not been the same since his Achilles injury - he was never straight line fast but more evasive with his low centre of gravity) looking to now depart

So what goes?

You should also be asking these questions

Where did they finish in the Best and Fairest this year (and that includes Gresham)?

Where have they finished in the TBM for the last five years?

Why should they continue to be offered contracts that place them among the top 25% of player salaries at St Kilda when it's not justified on output?

Do they have what it takes to hang around for the next 5 years ( on reduced salaries) and help this footy club win it's second premiership or are they just in it for whatever they can get money wise?

[Banger9798]

Adelaide offered end of first round pick for doodee. Bodes well for our Gresham compo. At least it should. Who knows with this murky system.

I wonder whether their secret formula for compo picks will somehow favour clubs not given the outrageous draft concessions like GC and North.
if so we should land pick 13 for Gresham

[Killa]

The contest which is Australian Rules football sees injuries

There was an age where a knee cartilage injury was not season ending but career ending - but thankfully we have people across society who use what they have between their ears to develop and perfect solutions

Injury comes with any sport, even walking

So should St Kilda have jettisoned Harvey, Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Ball (earlier than they did), Hamill, Michael Gardiner et al?

And should we now jettison King?

Remember Joel Smith?

And I know for a fact that CSH bought class horses back from injuries at Angaston and at Murray Bridge where he had his operations before David relocated to northern Victoria for the reasons he did