2019 Season a disaster already

[CQ SAINT]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

[Vazelos]

The maturity ,honesty and respect shown from both Jaxons and Back from the USA on this matter is very encouraging. This place over the years had standards drop very low at times I am glad to see that has now changed.
People must feel free to express themselves so we must be careful sanctioning comments unless they are really out of line and derogatory.

[Whiskey]

I think there’s a difference between critising and insulting.

We should be able to critise players/officials if we feel it’s warranted, otherwise what’s the point?

The post under discussion was insulting and plain wrong. Sure one can be critical and many posters are but bulls*** statements should be pulled up and were by the mods. I don't have a problem with that.

He didn’t insult them personally, just said they were bad at their jobs. People might disagree and present a counter argument, but flat out banning for that seems a bit heavy handed.

You are correct. I should have counter argued. And I have done so subsequently. Sometimes as a human we make decisions and in the fullness of time know that the decision wasn’t the best. I can’t get it right 100% of the time and happy to admit when I get it wrong. What it did expose is that 1 week can be too harsh a penalty in some instances of that particular rule and I have adjusted the rule to alllow mote flexibility. Criticism is fine BUT this was a veiled assisination of their professional reputation. This upset me because unless something has changed in the past 6 months I know both statements to be incorrect. Made a bad decision in banning him for a week. He do however deserve something for inaccurately depicting their industry reputations.

You re a baby mate. This place is even harder to read now because of this Gestapo bulls***. Ofcourse you should be able to criticise club and players especially with their disgraceful performances and management recently. Absolute nanny state you run here.

[Harves Man]

The maturity ,honesty and respect shown from both Jaxons and Back from the USA on this matter is very encouraging. This place over the years had standards drop very low at times I am glad to see that has now changed.
People must feel free to express themselves so we must be careful sanctioning comments unless they are really out of line and derogatory.

Yes, very well thought out and balanced comment and I totally agree. We can see WHY what happened did - just great to see continuing, balanced thought on doing things well on this site.

[saintspremiers]

A fan forum where any criticism of the club and staff has to be couched in diplomatic language? So much for open and frank discussion. Well I guess we have more in common with China than just a game there this year.
This is not what a fan forum should be.

This might give Simon a few more ideas.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

Looks a perfect fit for the forum!

[BackFromUSA]

I think there’s a difference between critising and insulting.

We should be able to critise players/officials if we feel it’s warranted, otherwise what’s the point?

The post under discussion was insulting and plain wrong. Sure one can be critical and many posters are but bulls*** statements should be pulled up and were by the mods. I don't have a problem with that.

He didn’t insult them personally, just said they were bad at their jobs. People might disagree and present a counter argument, but flat out banning for that seems a bit heavy handed.

You are correct. I should have counter argued. And I have done so subsequently. Sometimes as a human we make decisions and in the fullness of time know that the decision wasn’t the best. I can’t get it right 100% of the time and happy to admit when I get it wrong. What it did expose is that 1 week can be too harsh a penalty in some instances of that particular rule and I have adjusted the rule to alllow mote flexibility. Criticism is fine BUT this was a veiled assisination of their professional reputation. This upset me because unless something has changed in the past 6 months I know both statements to be incorrect. Made a bad decision in banning him for a week. He do however deserve something for inaccurately depicting their industry reputations.

You re a baby mate. This place is even harder to read now because of this Gestapo bulls***. Ofcourse you should be able to criticise club and players especially with their disgraceful performances and management recently. Absolute nanny state you run here.

Actually you can criticise players and administrators here but it is HOW you criticise them where there are rules. Perhaps it is hard to understand the difference criticism of performance and character assassination for some? Saying a player fumbles too much or turns the ball over or is a poor tackler or can’t kick for goal is absolutely fine but commenting on his character or him as a person is not. With administrative staff - saying they made mistakes or have stuffed something up is fine but commenting on their character as a person negatively is not ok.

[The_Dud]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

[BackFromUSA]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

[saintspremiers]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

Even on a forum like this where we use nicks not our real identies?

Surely that covers us to a degree??

[gringo]

A ban for this post is totally ridiculous
Get a grip Mods and try to respond instead of react.

We are in absolute all sorts, season already looked bleak and now:
Steven mental issues
Carlisle Back is cooked
Roberton retiring
Paddy most likely will never play again

One of our big hopes and 3 of top 7 players in all kinds of trouble. Compound that with Hannas who is strugglingto get to AFL gear.

This club is in disarray.. most absolutely unavoidable but my oh my.. this is sad

When you say unavoidable, not entirely true.
We have a Head of Football who has never worked at club level before, this is a fact.
Gubby Allen has a horrible name inside the industry for double dealing.
Finnis is regarded inside the industry as a joke of a CEO.
These are the people leading our football club.
Steven is back in the fold now and will play Round 1, his personal issues could not be helped.
Roberton is just bad luck for all involved.
Carlisle was cooked at start of the summer and club chose to wait until it got better, turns out the wrong choice.
And Paddy well despite the fact we should never have chosen him pick 1 to start with, his issues have arisen from poor football technique which is a coaching and development issue first and foremost.
As for Hannebery, this was Lethlean's call to pay him $800k a year for 5 years, and get a banged up footballer, who has been known by all to have social issues away from football.
Roberton and Steven were unavoidable, the rest the club has pulled the wrong reign, as usual.

<1 week ban for demeaning and casting dispersion on the character of Saints officials>

Careful, I think you could be banned for commenting on another poster. They're watching.

[saynta]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

Even on a forum like this where we use nicks not our real identies?

Surely that covers us to a degree??

Not so.

[gringo]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

[saynta]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

I don't agree with your comments. I know that journos, players and saints administrators on occasion visit this site.

Negative derogatory comments on players and or officials have the potential to negatively impact the club and said players.

[gringo]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

I don't agree with your comments. I know that journos, players and saints administrators on occasion visit this site.

Negative derogatory comments on players and or officials have the potential to negatively impact the club and said players.

Check facebook then, this place looks like the cheer squad in comparison and people have their actual names to it. If I was after a defamation case it would be easier to go there.

[saynta]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

I don't agree with your comments. I know that journos, players and saints administrators on occasion visit this site.

Negative derogatory comments on players and or officials have the potential to negatively impact the club and said players.

Check facebook then, this place looks like the cheer squad in comparison and people have their actual names to it. If I was after a defamation case it would be easier to go there.

Facebook? No thanks.

[CQ SAINT]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

Thats a fair assumption and also what makes the banning penalties a fitting way to moderate the forum. It is the outrage connected to the banning that I find the most intriguing.

[gringo]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

Thats a fair assumption and also what makes the banning penalties a fitting way to moderate the forum. It is the outrage connected to the banning that I find the most intriguing.

I usually post on Bigfooty these days, it's more free speech than here and some how the self moderation works better than the heavy handed stuff does. I find this forum much more combative and unfriendly. There is a vibe of having to watch what you say here that has people on edge.

[saintspremiers]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

I don't agree with your comments. I know that journos, players and saints administrators on occasion visit this site.

Negative derogatory comments on players and or officials have the potential to negatively impact the club and said players.

Check facebook then, this place looks like the cheer squad in comparison and people have their actual names to it. If I was after a defamation case it would be easier to go there.

Facebook? No thanks.

Well maybe you should at least check it out so you can form a balanced opinion on the matter. You don’t need to post on there, simply have a look and you’ll blown away at the things people say attaching their names to posts!

[saynta]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

Thats a fair assumption and also what makes the banning penalties a fitting way to moderate the forum. It is the outrage connected to the banning that I find the most intriguing.

I usually post on Bigfooty these days, it's more free speech than here and some how the self moderation works better than the heavy handed stuff does. I find this forum much more combative and unfriendly. There is a vibe of having to watch what you say here that has people on edge.

i don't believe that to be correct. The moderator on BF has always been heavy handed in my view. You will never have a problem here if you follow the rules which are imho very fair . However you are correct in one aspect. This forum was very combative and decidedly unfriendly until the new rules were introduced.

[saynta]

Freedom of opinion and expression is important but restricted to the point where respect for others rights and reputations are preserved. Hence the rules of the forum being enforced in this circumstance. There has to be some public moral code upheld.

Unless they’re a non-Saints person, then you’re free to call them anything under the sun.

Yes but at the risk of defamation action. The site can be subpoenaed to hand over registration and I.P. Data. Many cases where this has happened with Facebook, Twitter etc even on deleted posts.

You have to have actually written something that is worthy of a law suit though. They aren't going to pull up a fan forum over a few opinions of nobodies. They rarely even go after a journalist for putting seriously slanderous things in the paper. I doubt anything written on here would contribute to the way a person is perceived in the greater community.

I don't agree with your comments. I know that journos, players and saints administrators on occasion visit this site.

Negative derogatory comments on players and or officials have the potential to negatively impact the club and said players.

Check facebook then, this place looks like the cheer squad in comparison and people have their actual names to it. If I was after a defamation case it would be easier to go there.

Facebook? No thanks.

Well maybe you should at least check it out so you can form a balanced opinion on the matter. You don’t need to post on there, simply have a look and you’ll blown away at the things people say attaching their names to posts!

I don't think there is much that would "blow" me away . I don't need to examine s*** to know it exists but thanks all the same.

[CQ SAINT]

I find baiting/sledging is the biggest problem here. I think it mirrors our society. We are a land of provocateurs. The bans are usually too late to stop the rot, then there is the pages of debate that follow. Slowly, the tide is turning but some may never change their ways and that is their prerogative.
I have become comfortable with it though. Prior to the rule change it was out of control and ugly.

[gringo]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

[lewdogs]

At the end of the day what Jaxons said was hardly a huge stretch. Finnis obviously took his eyes off the footy department and concentrated on the business. The president we had was asleep at the wheel and should have been across the whole club. Our recruiting has been abysmal for 10 years and we kept Trout on regardless of how bad he performed. We look a lot like Melbourne did 5years ago with Stuv our Nathan Jones, the only above average player at the club. Gubby does come with baggage, Lethlean comes with a bad reputation for his extra curricular actions etc. Our coaching staff took a long time to replace despite having plateaued etc. We have made some big mistakes, not acknowledging them doesn't do any good. I think they have made some moves in the off season and we have to see how they go but it doesn't look great with injury already making the wheels look a bit wobbly from the start.

I just hope we start getting it right soon. Some decision making looks down right amateur, things like delaying the draft pick for a year to get Clark/ Coffield when we really needed young talent in developing quickly was weird. The same with taking on 2 injury prone players in the draft when we need mids and games into kids to gather momentum..... It might wok out for us, but was it the smart thing to do? It looks rudderless at times and I really hope good or bad Gubby can be our Neil Balme and straighten up our decision making.

The issue is people want to have their cake and eat it too. "Finnis is crap he didn't pay attention to the football department" well here's the thing he has overseen the move back to Moorabbin which is a defining moment for the club. He gets in Lethlean who is widely seen as a gun in the AFL community and we basically got lucky getting him because of his indiscretion, he does a FULL REVIEW OF THE FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT. Brings in gun coaches, new recruiters etc. But oh no, he's not the right guy for the job because he apparently doesn't have experience. And Gubby, who has decades of experience, well he has burnt bridges so he's no good either.

You compare us to Melbourne years ago, well they were a basket case. We were actually decent two years ago, 2018 was a horror year but to suggest Stuv is 'our only above-average player' is completely ludicrous.

By the way our drafting last year was anything but rudderless. We targeted talent at the top (yes Max King was injured but he was so enormously best available that he was impossible to pass up) and then pace and maturity down the order. It looks to me like we had a clear and concise plan to improve the list. And also, you're criticising the pick swap that got us Hunter Clark?! That was a steal! Just seems in your eyes the club can do nothing right.

It is the eve of round 1. Why not give the club a little support and encouragement, especially considering we have a number of big injuries just as the season starts. What if we win the first couple of games this year, and all your negativity will have been for nothing? Seems to me the club is trying very hard to turn things around, and it might just work.

[desertsaint]

Could we ban multiple quotes?

[saintspremiers]

lewdogs - I agree with a lot of what you have said.

But what if, as expected, we finish bottom 4 again this year?

We couldn’t then just say 2018 was a “blip”.