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saint-stu wrote:Surprised we would go for another player under injury cloud given what's happened with Freezer. Still hopeful he will come good but it hasn't been a good start.
On Freeman we knew he wouldn't play seniors this year and was wrecked when he arrived.
Don't forget we haven't paid for him yet!
He has played 7 weeks in a row albeit not all at VFL level.
Had 28 touches on the weekend and will enter into a full preseason later this year.
Everything was considered and was viewed as a risk worth taking.
Is 21 still at the start of 2017 season and long way to go before this is deemed a failure.
Agree, as previous posted re not playing Snr's this season, as previously stated club looking for him to be a regular snr ing by 2play018, all going to plan!!!!!
[/color Paying $300k plus p.a in the hope that he is a regular senior AFL player in 2018
So we are paying for 3 years in the hope of maybe getting 1 years worth?
Would want to be a cross of Ablett, Judd and Fyfe in that one year for us to get value!
Oh FFS he's 21, it's not like he's going to retire in 2018!!! How long did Geelong wait for Menzel? 4 knee reco's later he is a gun
saint-stu wrote:Surprised we would go for another player under injury cloud given what's happened with Freezer. Still hopeful he will come good but it hasn't been a good start.
On Freeman we knew he wouldn't play seniors this year and was wrecked when he arrived.
Don't forget we haven't paid for him yet!
He has played 7 weeks in a row albeit not all at VFL level.
Had 28 touches on the weekend and will enter into a full preseason later this year.
Everything was considered and was viewed as a risk worth taking.
Is 21 still at the start of 2017 season and long way to go before this is deemed a failure.
Agree, as previous posted re not playing Snr's this season, as previously stated club looking for him to be a regular snr ing by 2play018, all going to plan!!!!!
[/color Paying $300k plus p.a in the hope that he is a regular senior AFL player in 2018
So we are paying for 3 years in the hope of maybe getting 1 years worth?
Would want to be a cross of Ablett, Judd and Fyfe in that one year for us to get value!
Oh FFS he's 21, it's not like he's going to retire in 2018!!! How long did Geelong wait for Menzel? 4 knee reco's later he is a gun
Exactly - people are so hung up with this 300k probably comparing it to their own wages.
Will 300k be below the median wage after the new rights? It's nothing.
jaxons wrote:Can also tell you Fisher will be removed from senior list but perhaps rookied back for next year similar to what we did with Schneider in 2015 as back up if required.
Depends on what we accomplish during trade and draft.
He is aware of this already so happy to share.
That's old news mate, but thanks anyways!!!!!
Not sure how old it is given he was told last week and we haven't made it public yet.
Was mentioned on this forum a few says ago mate, plus pretty obvious once we missed on Hurl's chief!!!!!
Not it wasnt. Some people said it might happen. Noone said it was agreed upon.
And we were NEVER getting Hurley. Never.
Making a phone call to his Mgr and having his Mgr use us for increasing his $$$$ is not actually the same as us being close to getting him. He was contracted for starters and never leaving for seconds.
It was a pr stunt to raise his $$$.
Correct.
Another poster told me a few days ago that Chips was going to be delisted and then rookied.
It's not the $300k that's being argued about.
It's the horse-s*** assertion that we didn't expect him to play seniors till 2018,
therefore 3x300k for the possibility of one year of senior footy.
Menzel was already on Geelong's list when his woes began, he wasn't an Import.
The height of stupidity to think we can fix a bloke who a better resourced club (Collingwood) failed to!
Most 18 year old take 2-3 years before their bodies are ready and before they build enough of a fitness base for the endurance required.
As far as I's concerned there's no rush with a guy like Freeman. If we picked some skinny 18 year old we'd be waiting too wouldn't we? If we have to wait until mid 2017 for him to get a senior game I'm not worried as long as he's willing to do EVERYTHING required of him.
That's also why I think it's a risk worth taking with Jaeger. I think landing Jaeger will make a statement and cement us as a destination club. I'm willing to wait 18 months for him to get back to full fitness and playing regular games. I've blown a few dollars supporting my team and buying memberships for my direct family so if it all goes to s*** that's fine. Just like the risk we took with Carlisle I think it's worth taking.
Point is that as far as benefits gained for the team is concerned it's better to be patient and think long term. That's obviously what we're doing with Paddy. What's been Paddy McCartin's output in 2 years?
A guy like White is also a perfect example. Maybe he plays 4-5 games next year or maybe if he really performs and barring injury he might play double but by the time he's in his 4th year he'll hopefully have around 40 games and he'll be match hardened.
Even Paddy Dangerfield took until his 5th year before he started dominating. In his 3rd and 4th years as an AFL player he averaged 15.7 and 17.1 disposals.
Last edited by Scollop on Tue 30 Aug 2016 9:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scollop wrote:Most 18 year old take 2-3 years before their bodies are ready and before they build enough of a fitness base for the endurance required.
As far as I's concerned there's no rush with a guy like Freeman. If we picked some skinny 18 year old we'd be waiting too wouldn't we? If we have to wait until mid 2017 for him to get a senior game I'm not worried as long as he's willing to do EVERYTHING required of him.
That's also why I think it's a risk worth taking with Jaeger. I think landing Jaeger will make a statement and cement us as a destination club. I'm willing to wait 18 months for him to get back to full fitness and playing regular games. I've blown a few dollars supporting my team and buying memberships for my direct family so if it all goes to s*** that's fine. Just like the risk we took with Carlisle I think it's worth taking.
Point is that as far as benefits gained for the team is concerned it's better to be patient and think long term. That's obviously what we're doing with Paddy. What's been Paddy McCartin's output in 2 years?
A guy like White is also a perfect example. Maybe he plays 4-5 games next year or maybe if he really performs and barring injury he might play double but by the time he's in his 4th year he'll hopefully have around 40 games and he'll be match hardened.
Even Paddy Dangerfield took until his 5th year before he started dominating. In his 3rd and 4th years as an AFL player he averaged 15.7 and 17.1 disposals.
Fair enough Scollop.Well thought out. Disagree about JOM but I can see where you're coming from.
whiskers3614 wrote:It's not the $300k that's being argued about.
It's the horse-s*** assertion that we didn't expect him to play seniors till 2018,
therefore 3x300k for the possibility of one year of senior footy.
Menzel was already on Geelong's list when his woes began, he wasn't an Import.
The height of stupidity to think we can fix a bloke who a better resourced club (Collingwood) failed to!
Yes, but the filth has that gun, Davoren, who nearly crippled our list. Trojan horse we sent to the filth as payback for 2010. Just compare their injury list to ours this year. He's a complete spud who lives off the letters behind his name, rather than results. Long may the filth keep him on the payroll.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
Scollop wrote:Most 18 year old take 2-3 years before their bodies are ready and before they build enough of a fitness base for the endurance required.
As far as I's concerned there's no rush with a guy like Freeman. If we picked some skinny 18 year old we'd be waiting too wouldn't we? If we have to wait until mid 2017 for him to get a senior game I'm not worried as long as he's willing to do EVERYTHING required of him.
That's also why I think it's a risk worth taking with Jaeger. I think landing Jaeger will make a statement and cement us as a destination club. I'm willing to wait 18 months for him to get back to full fitness and playing regular games. I've blown a few dollars supporting my team and buying memberships for my direct family so if it all goes to s*** that's fine. Just like the risk we took with Carlisle I think it's worth taking.
Point is that as far as benefits gained for the team is concerned it's better to be patient and think long term. That's obviously what we're doing with Paddy. What's been Paddy McCartin's output in 2 years?
A guy like White is also a perfect example. Maybe he plays 4-5 games next year or maybe if he really performs and barring injury he might play double but by the time he's in his 4th year he'll hopefully have around 40 games and he'll be match hardened.
Even Paddy Dangerfield took until his 5th year before he started dominating. In his 3rd and 4th years as an AFL player he averaged 15.7 and 17.1 disposals.
Actually my comments have nothing at all to do with waiting or being impatient. I'm worried his hammies will never be right. We have been ultra-conservative and they have been reinjured again and again.
It's the Jesse Smith scenario that worries me. If we can guarantee he'll come good, I'm all for it. Same goes for JOM!
Maybe it's between the ears that is the problem. I don't know the kid, but my personal experience is that I believe someone can change their body and in particular can become more flexible and more agile.
We're not talking about bones or knee joints or shoulders. He is a professional athlete.
I believe that if he works hard enough and if his lifestyle and his diet and his every waking hour is focussed on flexibility and slowly building towards playing footy with the seniors in June 2017 he will achieve his goal.
If he spends 3 hours at a time, several times a week on the lounge playing playstation or sitting in general for lengthy periods he will never fulfil his potential
The other risk here is internal.
We are desperate to land top shelf midfield talent - maybe to the extent that (with JO'M) we will only hear whatever we are hoping to hear - accentuate the positives and downplay the negatives.
If the medical opinion is stringent and there is no confirmation bias once we receive it - in JO'M's case (and I hope this was also the case with Freeman) - then I have no problem in taking the risk.
So the risk has to be properly calculated and emotions need to be pushed aside to properly assess the medical opinion.
(Maybe if we had landed Bontompelli our recruiters would have faith in their ability to uncover another healthy specimen like him - so the ongoing and overarching risk is that we might not have the best recruiters?)
Anyway, the thing is - at the end of the day it's only opinion- there's no guarantee --- and we need to weigh this up against drafting or recruiting durable and talented young footballers, whose bodies are not failing them. Hopefully our recruiters will not miss the next Bontompelli.
It would be great to land O'Meara ... If he's the icing on the cake, complimenting our emerging midfielders like Acres - who I reckon might be better than JOM - and Gresham. Obviously we can't afford to lose a player like Ross or Steven or probably Dunstan or Armo.
And there quite a few others that we wouldn't part with, either, including Hickey, Membrey, Bruce. And that's far from an exhaustive list.
So what do we take to the trade table? We should emphasise to the Suns that we would be taking a huge risk in investing in a player who hasn't been able to get on the park with I guess. That would strengthen our position and also the fact that he doesn't want to play for them.
They should accept something. It's either that or watch him go to Essendon for nothing.
A lot of people salivating about a guy who hasn't played AFL for two years, has been the subject of intensive medical support, who played half a game with all the best medical advice beforehand and when he did managed half a game before coming off before needing further surgery.
A lot of people with severely rose tinted glasses thinking this dude is going to be the cream on our cake. A lot of people dreaming of what he was and not what he is. As though future medical opinion somehow discounts the actual evidence of the last 2 years. The trouble with medical opinion is those people don't actually to go out and play. "Expert' medical opinion is totally fallible. And when they're wrong, they just nod and shrug - there are zero consequences if they're wrong.
For StKFC on the other hand, recruiting a highly priced, high profile player who can't play would be totally shooting ourselves in the foot. Taking up a massive chunk of our salary cap and what effect on morale amongst the playing group?
samoht wrote:
Anyway, the thing is - at the end of the day it's only opinion- there's no guarantee --- and we need to weigh this up against drafting or recruiting durable and talented young footballers, whose bodies are not failing them. Hopefully our recruiters will not miss the next Bontompelli.
saintsRrising wrote:
I cannot see the AFL allowing that, and they have already indicated that they would not.
Moreso as it is GC and the AFL knows that they are struggling bigtime.
In that case I guess the only thing we have going for us is that we are upwardly mobile and he doesn't want to play for them. Who/what do you suggest we give up to get him on board?
If we do go after JO'M -- we need to structure a contract that ensures our risk is mitigated (as other posters have pointed out). Do it on our terms - or he can go elsewhere.
He's a risk. We should never lose sight of that.
But, I'd always prefer if our recruiters concentrated on finding the next Acres or Gresham or DMac - footballers who hang on to the ball, run with it and take their time and assess the best options. These footballers are rare. With Bontompelli, we missed a beauty --- you can't win them all (I'm being philosophical about it). But we did get some right.
Myron Gaines wrote:Looks Hawthorn bound, unless jaxons has further info.
If he lands at Hawthorn that means they cannot afford Tom Mitchell, so maybe we should look at him instead.!! He would be cheaper and appears to be more robust than O'Meara.
st.byron wrote:A lot of people salivating about a guy who hasn't played AFL for two years, has been the subject of intensive medical support, who played half a game with all the best medical advice beforehand and when he did managed half a game before coming off before needing further surgery.
A lot of people with severely rose tinted glasses thinking this dude is going to be the cream on our cake. A lot of people dreaming of what he was and not what he is. As though future medical opinion somehow discounts the actual evidence of the last 2 years. The trouble with medical opinion is those people don't actually to go out and play. "Expert' medical opinion is totally fallible. And when they're wrong, they just nod and shrug - there are zero consequences if they're wrong.
For StKFC on the other hand, recruiting a highly priced, high profile player who can't play would be totally shooting ourselves in the foot. Taking up a massive chunk of our salary cap and what effect on morale amongst the playing group?
I see a bad moon rising........
+1
It would be great for footy to see O'Meara get back playing to his near his best but through knowledge that I have gained from experts in the field (work colleagues) his return to top form is unlikely let alone him getting back onto the field in any meaningful capacity - this is a very serious injury to deal with in any sporting code let alone in a sport where your kneecaps are continually being driven into the ground - see the bit where he has been out for two years
Of course there is always that very small chance that his kneecap might come good and miraculously stand up the pressure of contested football but .......... is it worth the risk spending up big for that very small chance?
As gifted as he is/was ..... its a big NO from me ...... there are plenty of other talented fish in the sea that we can add to our progressive school without breaking the bank and impeding the club's advance towards finals.
