Eight years of pain coming ...

[Scollop]

The Cats template regarding the exit of their senior players and the turnover in their list is the template we should follow. Of course they are a different situation to us but I reckon they've certainly developed their youngsters better while managing the retirements of their recent captains and Geelong greats.

Personally I thought that blokes like Ling and Ottens could've gone round again. Was it something accidental or was it negotiated and deliberately and spectacularly well managed from Chris Scott, Neil Balme and the footy department and CEO Brian Cook?

The players that retired at the Cats would have been a lot happier having achieved the ultimate, but our blokes can also be proud of their contribution to the Saints. The players like Harley, Ling, Rooke, Ottens, Mooney and others had great careers and they all made their exit before they became a liability to the future success of their footy club. Let's hope our senior players are as unselfish as they were.

[Sainternist]

Terry Wallace is one of the biggest hacks (as a player and coach) in the history of the game. I am of the belief that his tenure at Richmond may have set them back a good 5 years.

Why the bloody hell is his opinion even valid?

[plugger66]

Terry Wallace is one of the biggest hacks (as a player and coach) in the history of the game. I am of the belief that his tenure at Richmond may have set them back a good 5 years.

Why the bloody hell is his opinion even valid?

Cant take anyone seriously if you think he was a hack as a player. why do we feel the need to knock people because they have an opinion that you mightnt agree with. Even as a coach he probably has a few covered over the years. And when did ability have anything to do with an opinion. I take it you would never take notice of Mark robinson opinion?

[Sainternist]

Terry Wallace is one of the biggest hacks (as a player and coach) in the history of the game. I am of the belief that his tenure at Richmond may have set them back a good 5 years.

Why the bloody hell is his opinion even valid?

Cant take anyone seriously if you think he was a hack as a player. why do we feel the need to knock people because they have an opinion that you mightnt agree with. Even as a coach he probably has a few covered over the years. And when did ability have anything to do with an opinion. I take it you would never take notice of Mark robinson opinion?

Why bag him? Because I don't respect where he's coming from. Saying a club won't see finals for an entire decade is a pretty damning assumption to make, particularly from an outsider's point of view.

And please, enlighten me about why I should take heed to what Terry has to say. Produce some examples of pivotal Wallace football forsite over the years which actually materialised.

[magnifisaint]

Phil Gibson of the The Railway Hotel, Castlemaine reckons we'll come good within 4 years. What does he base that on?

He watches plenty of Fox Footy and he's been reading the sporting pages for the last 50 years. I reckon he's got it on Terry for experience.

I'll go with his thinking

[plugger66]

Terry Wallace is one of the biggest hacks (as a player and coach) in the history of the game. I am of the belief that his tenure at Richmond may have set them back a good 5 years.

Why the bloody hell is his opinion even valid?

Cant take anyone seriously if you think he was a hack as a player. why do we feel the need to knock people because they have an opinion that you mightnt agree with. Even as a coach he probably has a few covered over the years. And when did ability have anything to do with an opinion. I take it you would never take notice of Mark robinson opinion?

Why bag him? Because I don't respect where he's coming from. Saying a club won't see finals for an entire decade is a pretty damning assumption to make, particularly from an outsider's point of view.

And please, enlighten me about why I should take heed to what Terry has to say. Produce some examples of pivotal Wallace football forsite over the years which actually materialised.

I dont think i said you had to take notice of him but your reasons didnt make any sense. saying is one of the biggest hacks as a player in the history of the game lacks any knowledge of the game. He was a very good player for 3 clubs or at least 2.

[dragit]

Phil Gibson of the The Railway Hotel, Castlemaine reckons we'll come good within 4 years. What does he base that on?

He watches plenty of Fox Footy and he's been reading the sporting pages for the last 50 years. I reckon he's got it on Terry for experience.

I'll go with his thinking

Where does phil watch fox footy?

The railway doesn't have it?

[Sainternist]

I dont think i said you had to take notice of him but your reasons didnt make any sense. saying is one of the biggest hacks as a player in the history of the game lacks any knowledge of the game. He was a very good player for 3 clubs or at least 2.

Whatever, Plugger. WHATEVER...

[samuraisaint]

I reckon 4 years, including this year. Based on what I have seen against the Tiges and Roos I would say that we will finish bottom 3 this year. Probably bottom 3 again next year (2014) due to the retirements of Milne, Hayes, Kosi, Blake, and bottom 4-6 the year after (2015) due to the retirements of Fisher, Roo, Dal and Joey. 2016 should be a consolidation year (9th) meaning we will still be eligible for a top ten draft pick. Provided we draft, trade and develop well over the next three years, 2017 should be the year we mount a challenge a la 2004.
By then the list will be turned over and guys like Ben, Hickey, Lee, Sippa, Wright and Ross will be our leaders. I would like us to trade for some experienced talent as well. Be good if we could entice someone with a bit of flair like Gudinski to take over as president too. Hope Watters is given a chance, because if he isn't the club made a mistake in hiring him in the first place. After all, they had to know that whoever took over was going to need time to regenerate the whole list, regardless of what they say publicly.

[maverick]

Cant take anyone seriously if you think he was a hack as a player. why do we feel the need to knock people because they have an opinion that you mightnt agree with. Even as a coach he probably has a few covered over the years. And when did ability have anything to do with an opinion. I take it you would never take notice of Mark robinson opinion?

Why bag him? Because I don't respect where he's coming from. Saying a club won't see finals for an entire decade is a pretty damning assumption to make, particularly from an outsider's point of view.

And please, enlighten me about why I should take heed to what Terry has to say. Produce some examples of pivotal Wallace football forsite over the years which actually materialised.

I dont think i said you had to take notice of him but your reasons didnt make any sense. saying is one of the biggest hacks as a player in the history of the game lacks any knowledge of the game. He was a very good player for 3 clubs or at least 2.

Poor example plugger surely you don't take robbos opinion seriously, you'd be he'll bent keeping up he changes his mind so much depending on who he wants to butter up

[plugger66]

Why bag him? Because I don't respect where he's coming from. Saying a club won't see finals for an entire decade is a pretty damning assumption to make, particularly from an outsider's point of view.

And please, enlighten me about why I should take heed to what Terry has to say. Produce some examples of pivotal Wallace football forsite over the years which actually materialised.

I dont think i said you had to take notice of him but your reasons didnt make any sense. saying is one of the biggest hacks as a player in the history of the game lacks any knowledge of the game. He was a very good player for 3 clubs or at least 2.

Poor example plugger surely you don't take robbos opinion seriously, you'd be he'll bent keeping up he changes his mind so much depending on who he wants to butter up

I read everyones opinions and sometimes i agree and sometimes i dont. i never say to myself i wont take any notice of that person because he didnt play or wasnt a good footballer. Im not saying people should agree with Wallace but mentioning how bad he was a footballer, which is rubbish, or how bad he was as a coach doesnt make his opinion wrong. 8 years maybe a year or 2 at the max to long IMO but i reckon it willo be closer to 8 than 4 if we include last year. And i know Robbo changes his mind a bit but thats the way of the footy public. After we beat Carlton we were still making the finals and SW had the makings of Jock McHale as a coach. Now some think we will finish second last and reckon SW wont coach next season.

[The Fireman]

I dont think i said you had to take notice of him but your reasons didnt make any sense. saying is one of the biggest hacks as a player in the history of the game lacks any knowledge of the game. He was a very good player for 3 clubs or at least 2.

Whatever, Plugger. WHATEVER...

agree with Plugger...when formulating an opinion take a bit of time and at least make an attempt to be factual. If that may be a bit difficult then restrain from making one.

[maverick]

I dont think i said you had to take notice of him but your reasons didnt make any sense. saying is one of the biggest hacks as a player in the history of the game lacks any knowledge of the game. He was a very good player for 3 clubs or at least 2.

Poor example plugger surely you don't take robbos opinion seriously, you'd be he'll bent keeping up he changes his mind so much depending on who he wants to butter up

I read everyones opinions and sometimes i agree and sometimes i dont. i never say to myself i wont take any notice of that person because he didnt play or wasnt a good footballer. Im not saying people should agree with Wallace but mentioning how bad he was a footballer, which is rubbish, or how bad he was as a coach doesnt make his opinion wrong. 8 years maybe a year or 2 at the max to long IMO but i reckon it willo be closer to 8 than 4 if we include last year. And i know Robbo changes his mind a bit but thats the way of the footy public. After we beat Carlton we were still making the finals and SW had the makings of Jock McHale as a coach. Now some think we will finish second last and reckon SW wont coach next season.

Fair enough I do agree mostly, was only take the p1ss with robbo.
With plough, given his poor record on drafting and development I am less inclined to agree with his opinion, and on this occasion he is talking bs IMO.
He was however a great player at hawthorn and a good one at the bulldogs, not that it matters too much as you say.

[Sainternist]

I dont think i said you had to take notice of him but your reasons didnt make any sense. saying is one of the biggest hacks as a player in the history of the game lacks any knowledge of the game. He was a very good player for 3 clubs or at least 2.

Whatever, Plugger. WHATEVER...

agree with Plugger...when formulating an opinion take a bit of time and at least make an attempt to be factual. If that may be a bit difficult then restrain from making one.

Sure, perhaps it was a knee-jerk reaction on my behalf to say that he was a hack footballer. But I think one could certainly make a fair argument to suggest he was a hack coach.

That aside, I don't take kindly to forecasts of gloom and doom for our club. Apparently he said we'll be in football limbo for 8 years... 8 FREAKIN' YEARS! The guy has basically condemned our club. I don't know about the rest of you, but this kind of stuff really pisses me off.

[Wayne42]

Hearing this from Terry Wallace it gives me great hope. He forgets that not every list is managed by a clown like himself and the way he butchered Richmonds list is in no way a indication of other clubs list management.

He did have Greg Miller give him a hand to butcher the list, neither of them are directly involved at AFL club level anymore, and the game is better for it.

[saintspremiers]

Let's prove Wallace wrong and come good in 7 years. That would be a fair result from where we are now.

Carn the Wellysaints!

[Superstar]

Ross, Wright, Newnes, Markworth, Steven, Roberton & Webster will all be top shelf. White could be exceptional.

I agree with most of that but I think you will see the improvement at the end of next year and a very solid season in 2015. We have plenty of room for some serious list development next year and a further pre season into the young mid fielders will do them an enormous help. Try to view some early footage of Dal and Joey and you can see how important strength and conditioning is. I think in exactly 12 months we will still be poor but that will be our lowest ebb and we will finish off 2014 season with optimism. And we will have a player that kids will want to put that number on their jumper. And it's not who you think.[/quote]


I dont get how that can happen in 2015. GC and GWS have had a huge number of picks and one has gone backwards in its second year and the other is still a year or 2 off finals. They have had many top 10 picks. We have had none and wont till this year and it will only be one top 10 pick. We also lose nearly all our previous AA players by 2015 and they will be replaced by only Steven, Ben and Matbe Armo has high end B graders. The kids who are playing now will have 50 games under their belt but none are top 10 picks which suggest we may fluke one or at the most 2 A graders by 2015. I cant see any side imprving with only 2 A graders and maybe 3 or 4 B graders and then the rest just kids. We are in for a few years of Pain IMO and hopefully our so called supporters hang in there.[/quote]

How many A graders did the Pies have in 2010?
Pendles
Swan

Maybe
Thomas

Cloke wasn't then
Their skipper was a rookie
Didak was at the tail end, like Kosi he is old for his age
Their key position players were teen picks at best.
They pinched Ball
They traded for Jolly

That's how it's done, they bottomed out for two years tops.

As I said in another thread, with all the top picks at two clubs, trading will be easier, we could do a 2000 trade period at the end of next year if we have the terrible year some on here are expecting.[/quote]


For the sake of the argument Didak was All-Australian in 2010.


But I agree with you, if you can draft well,target opposition players that suit your needs and you can turn it around pretty quickly.

You need to really nail a draft, cats and pies have drafts where all of their picks and rookies have become AFL regulars. You can't afford hit and miss drafts when rebuilding, that's what causes it to blow out in time.

[citywest]

To a certain extent, I agree with Wallet. If you include 2012 it will be 8 years before we play finals again. This is not doom and gloom, it is reality. If you include 2003 and 2012, we had 10 years as a top team. That's 10 years. We may not have won a flag but can you tell me how many other teams have been good for that long? And don't include Geelong and Sydney. At least the Father son pick has been fixed now and hopefully the 10% cost of living allowance may soon be scrapped.

In my opinion, we haven't bottomed out yet. 2014 will be the year we 'Win' wooden spoon number 27. I hope that's the only one we win because worst case scenario, we may get 3 in a row (2104, 2015 and 2016). I doubt it though. The earliest we could be back playing finals would be 2018. Before Joffa and everyone else calls me a TROLL, the above scenario is just a repeat of 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. 2003 is when we were the up and coming glamour team. I'm predicting that this time around it will be 2019 with us playing Grand Finals again no earlier 2022.

Maybe with Free Agency we could be back earlier but I would rather stay away from that and just keep picking the best available young talent through the National Draft. FFS, do not trade away early picks anymore. We had 2 high picks last year and we traded both for Lee and Hickey. They may turn out to be champs but I would have rather they picked the best 2 youngsters and go from there. Oh well.

[SaintPav]

The sad f#cker has spoken.

[Furphy]

Every time I hear of Terry Wallace I get a picture of that ridiculous Wonder Woman/Native American headband he wore late in his career. As one writer called him at the time; "Chief Running Slow"

[Sainternist]

Every time I hear of Terry Wallace I get a picture of that ridiculous Wonder Woman/Native American headband he wore late in his career. As one writer called him at the time; "Chief Running Slow"

Hahahaha... Nice one!

Although, best not to speak poorly of "Plough" in this forum. You might offend Plugger.

[citywest]

I just thought it would be interesting to bump my post below. I copped a lot of flak over it but what does everyone think now. Not to far off the mark hey??

To a certain extent, I agree with Wallet. If you include 2012 it will be 8 years before we play finals again. This is not doom and gloom, it is reality. If you include 2003 and 2012, we had 10 years as a top team. That's 10 years. We may not have won a flag but can you tell me how many other teams have been good for that long? And don't include Geelong and Sydney. At least the Father son pick has been fixed now and hopefully the 10% cost of living allowance may soon be scrapped.

In my opinion, we haven't bottomed out yet. 2014 will be the year we 'Win' wooden spoon number 27. I hope that's the only one we win because worst case scenario, we may get 3 in a row (2104, 2015 and 2016). I doubt it though. The earliest we could be back playing finals would be 2018. Before Joffa and everyone else calls me a TROLL, the above scenario is just a repeat of 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. 2003 is when we were the up and coming glamour team. I'm predicting that this time around it will be 2019 with us playing Grand Finals again no earlier 2022.

Maybe with Free Agency we could be back earlier but I would rather stay away from that and just keep picking the best available young talent through the National Draft. FFS, do not trade away early picks anymore. We had 2 high picks last year and we traded both for Lee and Hickey. They may turn out to be champs but I would have rather they picked the best 2 youngsters and go from there. Oh well.

[SaintPav]

I just thought it would be interesting to bump my post below. I copped a lot of flak over it but what does everyone think now. Not to far off the mark hey??

To a certain extent, I agree with Wallet. If you include 2012 it will be 8 years before we play finals again. This is not doom and gloom, it is reality. If you include 2003 and 2012, we had 10 years as a top team. That's 10 years. We may not have won a flag but can you tell me how many other teams have been good for that long? And don't include Geelong and Sydney. At least the Father son pick has been fixed now and hopefully the 10% cost of living allowance may soon be scrapped.

In my opinion, we haven't bottomed out yet. 2014 will be the year we 'Win' wooden spoon number 27. I hope that's the only one we win because worst case scenario, we may get 3 in a row (2104, 2015 and 2016). I doubt it though. The earliest we could be back playing finals would be 2018. Before Joffa and everyone else calls me a TROLL, the above scenario is just a repeat of 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. 2003 is when we were the up and coming glamour team. I'm predicting that this time around it will be 2019 with us playing Grand Finals again no earlier 2022.

Maybe with Free Agency we could be back earlier but I would rather stay away from that and just keep picking the best available young talent through the National Draft. FFS, do not trade away early picks anymore. We had 2 high picks last year and we traded both for Lee and Hickey. They may turn out to be champs but I would have rather they picked the best 2 youngsters and go from there. Oh well.

Going early Citywest?

It's only round 8 and we have won three games and we are no guarantee to win the spoon.

But, typical and negative post by you.

"2014 will be the year we 'win' wooden spoon number 27" is something that only a t*** would write.

You really sound like a true Saints man through and through.

<warning for abuse>

[SaintPav]

I just thought it would be interesting to bump my post below. I copped a lot of flak over it but what does everyone think now. Not to far off the mark hey??

To a certain extent, I agree with Wallet. If you include 2012 it will be 8 years before we play finals again. This is not doom and gloom, it is reality. If you include 2003 and 2012, we had 10 years as a top team. That's 10 years. We may not have won a flag but can you tell me how many other teams have been good for that long? And don't include Geelong and Sydney. At least the Father son pick has been fixed now and hopefully the 10% cost of living allowance may soon be scrapped.

In my opinion, we haven't bottomed out yet. 2014 will be the year we 'Win' wooden spoon number 27. I hope that's the only one we win because worst case scenario, we may get 3 in a row (2104, 2015 and 2016). I doubt it though. The earliest we could be back playing finals would be 2018. Before Joffa and everyone else calls me a TROLL, the above scenario is just a repeat of 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. 2003 is when we were the up and coming glamour team. I'm predicting that this time around it will be 2019 with us playing Grand Finals again no earlier 2022.

Maybe with Free Agency we could be back earlier but I would rather stay away from that and just keep picking the best available young talent through the National Draft. FFS, do not trade away early picks anymore. We had 2 high picks last year and we traded both for Lee and Hickey. They may turn out to be champs but I would have rather they picked the best 2 youngsters and go from there. Oh well.

By the way, give us all a break and

<edited by mods>

off

<poster already warned for responding to this post>

[magnifisaint]

I just thought it would be interesting to bump my post below. I copped a lot of flak over it but what does everyone think now. Not to far off the mark hey??

To a certain extent, I agree with Wallet. If you include 2012 it will be 8 years before we play finals again. This is not doom and gloom, it is reality. If you include 2003 and 2012, we had 10 years as a top team. That's 10 years. We may not have won a flag but can you tell me how many other teams have been good for that long? And don't include Geelong and Sydney. At least the Father son pick has been fixed now and hopefully the 10% cost of living allowance may soon be scrapped.

In my opinion, we haven't bottomed out yet. 2014 will be the year we 'Win' wooden spoon number 27. I hope that's the only one we win because worst case scenario, we may get 3 in a row (2104, 2015 and 2016). I doubt it though. The earliest we could be back playing finals would be 2018. Before Joffa and everyone else calls me a TROLL, the above scenario is just a repeat of 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. 2003 is when we were the up and coming glamour team. I'm predicting that this time around it will be 2019 with us playing Grand Finals again no earlier 2022.

Maybe with Free Agency we could be back earlier but I would rather stay away from that and just keep picking the best available young talent through the National Draft. FFS, do not trade away early picks anymore. We had 2 high picks last year and we traded both for Lee and Hickey. They may turn out to be champs but I would have rather they picked the best 2 youngsters and go from there. Oh well.

I'll take that if it means we win a couple of premierships!
Do you think we can win a couple of premierships?
We've been waiting 50 years since our last win, another 8 isn't going to matter as long as we start a dynasty.
I want your opinion.