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You think?Spinner wrote:Best coach in the AFL.
skeptic wrote:One frustrating thing is that the answer was yes... didn't like the team selected at the time and I said so... can't prove it now and you just go on and on about calling me a hindsight specialist whilst forumites that have been here longer like Sainter K can at least remember that my criticism started growing a lot more mid 2010.SaintPav wrote: Did posters like Septic and others make these call at the time? I'd say no...At least SainterK has the guts to back certain players in.
My issue in 09 was a simple one. As the game at TD in 09 showed Geelong were a strong finishing team which meant we needed run. Anything less than an 6-7 goal 3/4 time lead was going to go down to the wire.
The team we selected had both king and Gardiner who were average at best then... Dempster as a forward utility (not the close checking defender we have since come to love). 2 of 3 of them shd have made way for runners.
In the last 1/4 we fatigued, lost the ability to run and spread and could barely get our hands on the pill... which was compounded by the decision to take Ball off which was a MISTAKE the coaches acknowledged although in my opinon they did it deliberately
It never ceases to amaze me that some of you guys simply cannot fathom that RL made some poor decisions on the day and that it wasn't just the players missing goals... it's such a simplistic argument. If one of those goals had gone through obviously the game would have changed but we'd still have a team that would run out of steam
SainterK wrote:You think?Spinner wrote:Best coach in the AFL.
This years results won't impact that thought process?
What if say Watters can get the Saints deep into the finals, or Sanderson can pull the Crows up to a GF appearance in the space of 12 months?
I liked Ross, not sure I considered him the best in the business though, could you expand a little?
(oh and skeptic questioned Ross a lot earlier than 2011, I remember)
He had my full support while he was there.plugger66 wrote:SainterK wrote:You think?Spinner wrote:Best coach in the AFL.
This years results won't impact that thought process?
What if say Watters can get the Saints deep into the finals, or Sanderson can pull the Crows up to a GF appearance in the space of 12 months?
I liked Ross, not sure I considered him the best in the business though, could you expand a little?
(oh and skeptic questioned Ross a lot earlier than 2011, I remember)
If you didnt think he was the best you at least had him in the top one. I love your loyalty but He has left so some people do change their mind.
SainterK wrote:He had my full support while he was there.plugger66 wrote:
If you didnt think he was the best you at least had him in the top one. I love your loyalty but He has left so some people do change their mind.
Does that mean I think he was the best?
Hadn't thought about it to be honest, I guess I always assume that premiership coaches are the best, however perhaps Spinner is alluding to the fact that there isn't many of those around now other than Chris Scott?
One thing you can't argue is that I am more loyal to the players, than the coach, reckon they are a pretty special bunch this era.
Haha, ok...Spinner wrote:Best coach in the AFL.
Errors?plugger66 wrote:SainterK wrote:He had my full support while he was there.plugger66 wrote:
If you didnt think he was the best you at least had him in the top one. I love your loyalty but He has left so some people do change their mind.
Does that mean I think he was the best?
Hadn't thought about it to be honest, I guess I always assume that premiership coaches are the best, however perhaps Spinner is alluding to the fact that there isn't many of those around now other than Chris Scott?
One thing you can't argue is that I am more loyal to the players, than the coach, reckon they are a pretty special bunch this era.
There is actually 3 premiership coaches. And I aint saying you think he is the best now but I think you may have when he coached us. It just seems that you think he made a fair errors not that i heard about them at the time. maybe I missed it as I am hardly on here.
SainterK wrote:Errors?plugger66 wrote:SainterK wrote:
He had my full support while he was there.
Does that mean I think he was the best?
Hadn't thought about it to be honest, I guess I always assume that premiership coaches are the best, however perhaps Spinner is alluding to the fact that there isn't many of those around now other than Chris Scott?
One thing you can't argue is that I am more loyal to the players, than the coach, reckon they are a pretty special bunch this era.
There is actually 3 premiership coaches. And I aint saying you think he is the best now but I think you may have when he coached us. It just seems that you think he made a fair errors not that i heard about them at the time. maybe I missed it as I am hardly on here.
He admitted the Luke Ball getting less minutes than he should of, that was well publicised and discussed on here.
I was very vocal about my annoyance in his retiring players that didn't want to be retired, and his poor coaching v Sydney in the elimination final (not sure you'd define that as an error, probably more opinion)
The fact is gameplan is fatiguing shouldn't be lost on anyone, that's just fact.
I think his biggest 'error' is more recent, and that is underestimating the character of the players he had at his disposal at St Kilda.
Old Mate wrote:Oh and the best coach in the AFL is Kevin Sheedy. Winning at least one premiership in each of the last three decades. An amazing effort. My money is on him winning another flag this decade with GWS.
Old Mate wrote:The coach should mostly be judged on list vs output ..... Probably why Lyon was so highly rated.
Anyway, look at Sir Alex Ferguson as an example....Of course being in charge of the biggest sporting club in the world helps but you cannot deny his ability to manage people/teams. Sheedy is like our version of him and age means little. Have you met Sheedy plugger? He's a remarkable person.
Of course he's a sales person aren't all coaches? They don't only sell the clubs brand but also game plans to players and staff to motivate. I met him once in the mid 90's.plugger66 wrote:Old Mate wrote:The coach should mostly be judged on list vs output ..... Probably why Lyon was so highly rated.
Anyway, look at Sir Alex Ferguson as an example....Of course being in charge of the biggest sporting club in the world helps but you cannot deny his ability to manage people/teams. Sheedy is like our version of him and age means little. Have you met Sheedy plugger? He's a remarkable person.
I have heard him speak a few times but never met him. Didnt understand a word he said but it was interesting. Was a great coach but now he is the sales person for GWS.
Under Lyon, most F50's were either scrambled messy quick kicks in there to no one or nowhere in particular - or 'bomb it to Roo'. Flawed.dragit wrote:It should mean shots on goal, what else are we trying to do once it's inside 50? We had 14 shots, mostly getableSainterK wrote: Inside 50's doesn't mean shots on goal though dragit, especially in those conditions.
Two sentences that bring it all back into perspective...It's all about the players....The blueprint for success is building a team and getting the blokes to improve and grow together. The major credit for our success lies with the club people who came before Lyon and the players who stuck together and had a dream.SainterK wrote: One thing you can't argue is that I am more loyal to the players, than the coach, reckon they are a pretty special bunch this era.
The fact is gameplan is fatiguing shouldn't be lost on anyone, that's just fact.
He got the job at St Kilda end of 2006, when Roo, Dal, Joey, Fisher etc etc where all about 25 years old.BigMart wrote:Hate to say it but,
Freo will come good, Ross can coach
All he needs to do is get rid of some rubbish, and reprogram some footy dumb players....
He will not win a premiership though IMO
skeptic wrote:One frustrating thing is that the answer was yes... didn't like the team selected at the time and I said so... can't prove it now and you just go on and on about calling me a hindsight specialist whilst forumites that have been here longer like Sainter K can at least remember that my criticism started growing a lot more mid 2010.SaintPav wrote: Did posters like Septic and others make these call at the time? I'd say no...At least SainterK has the guts to back certain players in.
My issue in 09 was a simple one. As the game at TD in 09 showed Geelong were a strong finishing team which meant we needed run. Anything less than an 6-7 goal 3/4 time lead was going to go down to the wire.
The team we selected had both king and Gardiner who were average at best then... Dempster as a forward utility (not the close checking defender we have since come to love). 2 of 3 of them shd have made way for runners.
In the last 1/4 we fatigued, lost the ability to run and spread and could barely get our hands on the pill... which was compounded by the decision to take Ball off which was a MISTAKE the coaches acknowledged although in my opinon they did it deliberately
It never ceases to amaze me that some of you guys simply cannot fathom that RL made some poor decisions on the day and that it wasn't just the players missing goals... it's such a simplistic argument. If one of those goals had gone through obviously the game would have changed but we'd still have a team that would run out of steam
Er, no. By the end of last season he was in a position to become so, but was still behind....Spinner wrote:Best coach in the AFL.
Spinner wrote:Best coach in the AFL.
I;ll give this a go... bearing in mind that my suspicions of RL's poor team selection were only just forming and I didn't reach frustration point until mid 2010... + obviously we were still winning.plugger66 wrote:Tell me you are joking that a game in round 14 showed that the side we would play 10 weeks later was a strong finishing team. Does that make Sydney a strong finishing team so we better prepare for that?
Anyway seen that you have said that what you are saying is not hindsight you sould be able to show us many posts in 09 where you said similar comments and I dont mean after the GF. Can you show us a few?