Ross Lyon’s year of experimentation

[Brunswicksainter]

We’re we better with Ryder and Marshall

Than Solo Marshall in 2019
And Solo Marshall this season

And if so, why?

Both had different strengths as ruckmen- but only one could ruck at a time?

They both were average forwards and preferred playing ruck

Gawn and Grundy doesn’t work
Darcy and Jackson doesn’t work

All 4 (like Marshall) prefer the #1 mantle and 80+ percent in the ruck!

We are categorically better with Marshall as sole ruck. Ryder Marshall combo was disastrous for us in 2021 and 2022.

Can't we make Marshall a tall mid and get a quality tap ruckman?

Isn't that Owens role when he goes into the middle?

Marshall is mobile for his height but I don’t think starting him in centre bounces as a stand alone mid would work as the opposition mids are more agile and quicker.

If we did get a good tap ruckman, trying him on a wing would be interesting.

Having a good tap ruckmen is not at all paramount for success in my view. Also re ryder, his ruck stats in 2022 (incl. avg. hit outs to advantage, center clearances ect..) are not noticeably better than marshall’s this season. Biggest myth in the afl was the greatness of his tapwork. Our current ruck mix of Marshall and owens is the best we’ve had in two decades.

[nostalgicsaint]

We’re we better with Ryder and Marshall

Than Solo Marshall in 2019
And Solo Marshall this season

And if so, why?

Both had different strengths as ruckmen- but only one could ruck at a time?

They both were average forwards and preferred playing ruck

Gawn and Grundy doesn’t work
Darcy and Jackson doesn’t work

All 4 (like Marshall) prefer the #1 mantle and 80+ percent in the ruck!

We are categorically better with Marshall as sole ruck. Ryder Marshall combo was disastrous for us in 2021 and 2022.

Can't we make Marshall a tall mid and get a quality tap ruckman?

Isn't that Owens role when he goes into the middle?

Marshall is mobile for his height but I don’t think starting him in centre bounces as a stand alone mid would work as the opposition mids are more agile and quicker.

If we did get a good tap ruckman, trying him on a wing would be interesting.

Having a good tap ruckmen is not at all paramount for success in my view. Also re ryder, his ruck stats in 2022 (incl. avg. hit outs to advantage, center clearances ect..) are not noticeably better than marshall’s this season. Biggest myth in the afl was the greatness of his tapwork. Our current ruck mix of Marshall and owens is the best we’ve had in two decades.

I agree that Marshalls tapwork has improved and is probably underrated on current form.

That said- I couldn't disagree more re Ryder's great tapwork being a myth and would suggest that we're looking at imperfect measures with statistics.

Some things which would be cool to know

• Clearance probability based on the midfielders (not ruckman) who were present vs the actual result giving a measure of impact of the ruckman

• Post hitout to advantage clearances

• Post hitout clearances

• Lost hitout clearances conceded