Changing coaches has been a failure, IMHFO.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

The energy and spirit had drained off this team, as it did last year, and that's ultimately on the coach.

This is easily the worst patch of Ross Lyon's coaching career (at St Kilda, anyway).

There are coach-strokers on here who will always convince themselves that our coach is the man. "Really happy with this bloke" was one comment on Richo.

This certainly doesn't mean that we shoud have retained Ratten. We probably wouldn't have got the early wins this season and he'd be sacked by now anyway.

The frustrating thing is that, like so many things at St Kilda over the years, you can watch the disaster happening in real time (e.g. taking McCartin over Petracca).

In this case, it's been Cuddly Ross sqaundering his own aura as a ruthless drill instructor.

The team started losing form and he's still laughing, defending the troops, telling everyone they're giving maximum effort, they're highly coachable, and talking up players who haven't done much.

Saturday's presser was the first time he's bagged them publicly and that was mainly to blame the skill level, not the declining effort.

He needs to pull his nown finger out. Maybe we'll recover. Maybe we'll do a Carlton and revive ourselves on the run. Maybe we'll be better next year.

But talking enviously of Gold Coast's concessions doesn't fill me with confidence. Nor does it seem likely that we'll be in any position to lure any DeGoey types to Moorabbin, if we finish another season in such an inglorious fashion. Might as well go hard at the draft again and gear up for a tilt in 2027.

[Teflon]

Thanks for that mate.

I went to the gym this morning where a mate, a Carlton supporter no less, said that our coach had been very negative lately and that the saints had dropped off significantly over the past 10 weeks.

Bit like the old chicken and egg question IMHO.

To me, the coach was the chicken and came first telling the team, the egg, basically suggesting to them and anyone else who would listen that we had a terrible list and that changes were coming. Bit like a number of posters on here actually.

Seems like the players have come to accept that and are now playing accordingly.

That's debatable, I doubt the players regard the St Kilda's list as anything but average, they know how players are rated even without hearing and reading that being expressed in the media.

Early in the season Wilkie commented that the boys were really responding well to the new coaching regime, it was a distinct upgrade from 2022.

This stands to reason because even if you disagree in principle with Lyon's appointment, it is abundantly clear that he is a far more successful and highly respected coach than his predecessors.

Supporters who regularly attend training sessions have confirmed that these are far more structured and hard working than last year.

It's also pertinent to note that in the game against Melbourne the previous week the team played a very strong brand of football, they took off like a rocket in the first quarter and every commentator that covered the game said that if not for the 3 injuries to key players the Saints may well have won.

The lethargic performance at Carrara on Saturday was uncharacteristic and I'm in no doubt that the players will be addressing that this week and it was good to hear Lyon gave an honest appraisal of the players post match rather than call it another mulligan.

I also again refer to my previous remarks about the 180 degree turnaround by the Carlton players when their team's chances this year were virtually written off. Reports in the media today said that the players went away on a camp, a bonding session, when they had a bye and had brutal conversations about individual performances.

While not wishing to prolong the endless debate about Lyon's controversial departure in 2011, perchance I found a story about an interview he had with Triple M last year, which gives his side of that story:

https://www.triplem.com.au/story/ross-l ... 011-207635

We’ll said
Players know exactly where they stand with Lyon - internally they appreciate the honesty
Will it ruffle some feathers? Yes will sone move on cause they don’t like it? Yes
Absolutely listen to those who go to training and know what they see last year to this year - light years ahead in standards and professionalism….light years

Not being rude but can you stop saying we'll when you mean WELL?
Almost as annoying as Clark(no E)!

Well .. I can try but we’ll just have to see ?

[Teflon]

I've refrained from commenting on this thread until now.

I will perhaps surprise some by coming in on the side of Lyon as coach. I think, notwithstanding some disappointing losses, we are still playing better than we did last year. After the bye last year, we seemed to lose all confidence and our midfield became a sort of freeway through which our opponents danced happily towards their forward 50.

Apart from the Adelaide game and for some of the Eagles game, we have been a far tougher proposition defensively for our opponents this year than in 2022. Most of our losses this year have come about through us blowing our attacking opportunities more than through poor defence. And it's pretty understandable that we have struggled in attack given that our two most dangerous marking forwards in King and Membrey have missed most of our games.

Our defence has been good in almost every game, as have our outside players. Our inside mids are a fairly weak contingent when Steele is absent/injured, but they've struggled hard and Crouch has been heroic in some games.

Despite all the talk of the need for major a clean out of our list, all we need to improve significantly IMO is a fit forward contingent amd a couple of higher quality inside mids. It's possible that we already have the latter in the form of Windy and Owens when they are fully matured.

Lyon and his team have got us almost playing the right kind of footy. And, unlike Ratts in the second half of 2022, he continues to exude confidence. I was frustrated watching the game on Saturday, but I'm still glad Lyon is there.

We’ll said
I’d also add the experience Ratts had at his disposal to the baby forwards Lyon has through injury is poles apart

[Yorkeys]

If Ross does not make a number of changes against North he will lose a lot of credibility. Each player that handballed behind the running support, each player that missed an open opportunity inf50. Each player that dropped off a tackle. And he needs to decide where Owens and Sinclair are best and leave them there. Sharman and Owens are viable forward targets. If players can't kick to their advantage, sayonara them. Time to stop pussyfooting? And drag Webster first clanger.

[saynta]

If Ross does not make a number of changes against North he will lose a lot of credibility. Each player that handballed behind the running support, each player that missed an open opportunity inf50. Each player that dropped off a tackle. And he needs to decide where Owens and Sinclair are best and leave them there. Sharman and Owens are viable forward targets. If players can't kick to their advantage, sayonara them. Time to stop pussyfooting? And drag Webster first clanger.

At least you have shown that you have a clue which is becoming extremely rare around here, Good upon you.

[Vortex]

I've refrained from commenting on this thread until now.

I will perhaps surprise some by coming in on the side of Lyon as coach. I think, notwithstanding some disappointing losses, we are still playing better than we did last year. After the bye last year, we seemed to lose all confidence and our midfield became a sort of freeway through which our opponents danced happily towards their forward 50.

Apart from the Adelaide game and for some of the Eagles game, we have been a far tougher proposition defensively for our opponents this year than in 2022. Most of our losses this year have come about through us blowing our attacking opportunities more than through poor defence. And it's pretty understandable that we have struggled in attack given that our two most dangerous marking forwards in King and Membrey have missed most of our games.

Our defence has been good in almost every game, as have our outside players. Our inside mids are a fairly weak contingent when Steele is absent/injured, but they've struggled hard and Crouch has been heroic in some games.

Despite all the talk of the need for major a clean out of our list, all we need to improve significantly IMO is a fit forward contingent amd a couple of higher quality inside mids. It's possible that we already have the latter in the form of Windy and Owens when they are fully matured.

Lyon and his team have got us almost playing the right kind of footy. And, unlike Ratts in the second half of 2022, he continues to exude confidence. I was frustrated watching the game on Saturday, but I'm still glad Lyon is there.

We've got the right coach, albeit when Ross get's a full compliment in the forward line and we still lack attacking flare then I'll probably be a little concerned however I'm thinking because of the incredibly limited options at the selection table he's had to resort to his defensive mindset to quell the hemorrhaging. Fair enough, you can only work with the resources at your disposal which is why I can't wait for trade time this year to get a sense of the strategy he is going to deploy to build his list. That's when his first audit will commence as far as I'm concerned.

[Brunswicksainter]

I probably shouldn't be posting this afternoon after that sickening inept display, but I have seen nothing this year that in any way indicates that RTB is a superior coach in the present time than the contracted one the board sacked.

I really feel for Ratts.

Ratten was so inept as a coach we would have been bottom 4 if he stayed.

His record both with us and at Carlton given the lists had at his disposal is a joke. Only made it as far as he did because he's a nice guy.

Ratten clearly out of his depth but a good guy.
Below from BF is a very valid point:

*******
This is Ratten's list. Ross hasn't had the chance to cut the players he doesn't want, and hasn't had the chance to influence the list at all, outside of Caminiti and Stocker, who arrived after he got the job.

Yeah but isn’t Ross a great motivator and sets standards and gets the best out of players and be improves players and demands 100 % effort 100% of the time.

Clearly be hasn’t done been able to improve this list so what makes you so confident he can do it by changing the players. He couldn’t do it at Freo. Why so confident because you could argue we look worse than under Ratts.

id say we've improved this year, given the injury list and talent we've blooded.

[Vortex]

I probably shouldn't be posting this afternoon after that sickening inept display, but I have seen nothing this year that in any way indicates that RTB is a superior coach in the present time than the contracted one the board sacked.

I really feel for Ratts.

Ratten was so inept as a coach we would have been bottom 4 if he stayed.

His record both with us and at Carlton given the lists had at his disposal is a joke. Only made it as far as he did because he's a nice guy.

Ratten clearly out of his depth but a good guy.
Below from BF is a very valid point:

*******
This is Ratten's list. Ross hasn't had the chance to cut the players he doesn't want, and hasn't had the chance to influence the list at all, outside of Caminiti and Stocker, who arrived after he got the job.

Yeah but isn’t Ross a great motivator and sets standards and gets the best out of players and be improves players and demands 100 % effort 100% of the time.

Clearly be hasn’t done been able to improve this list so what makes you so confident he can do it by changing the players. He couldn’t do it at Freo. Why so confident because you could argue we look worse than under Ratts.

id say we've improved this year, given the injury list and talent we've blooded.

relatively speaking we haven't blooded that much talent especially when compared to the players who need to be cut or close to the end. The other hard thing to measure is the season we are having, we are possibly in one of the worse performing years for nearly every club below 4th, it's a massive performance gap down to 5th.

also with reference to the players we have so called blooded, our list is in such disrepair those few players who might be likely types don't go anywhere near what is needed to get us to pull up anchor from the middle of the ladder, and that's being kind, even Ross said we are playing like a bottom 4 side, hard to disagree with.

[Teflon]

If Ross does not make a number of changes against North he will lose a lot of credibility. Each player that handballed behind the running support, each player that missed an open opportunity inf50. Each player that dropped off a tackle. And he needs to decide where Owens and Sinclair are best and leave them there. Sharman and Owens are viable forward targets. If players can't kick to their advantage, sayonara them. Time to stop pussyfooting? And drag Webster first clanger.

Very good
So 6-7 changes??
Who’s coming in?

[Yorkeys]

If Ross does not make a number of changes against North he will lose a lot of credibility. Each player that handballed behind the running support, each player that missed an open opportunity inf50. Each player that dropped off a tackle. And he needs to decide where Owens and Sinclair are best and leave them there. Sharman and Owens are viable forward targets. If players can't kick to their advantage, sayonara them. Time to stop pussyfooting? And drag Webster first clanger.

Very good
So 6-7 changes??
Who’s coming in?

Already asked/answered elsewhere, are you not paying attention. Fair challenge though.
Ross is not quick to react, sometimes wonder if Ross even changes clothes. He seems to like labouring certain points. Our offence seems crap but we need to be sure, sure, sure......it's only R19.

[Teflon]

If Ross does not make a number of changes against North he will lose a lot of credibility. Each player that handballed behind the running support, each player that missed an open opportunity inf50. Each player that dropped off a tackle. And he needs to decide where Owens and Sinclair are best and leave them there. Sharman and Owens are viable forward targets. If players can't kick to their advantage, sayonara them. Time to stop pussyfooting? And drag Webster first clanger.

Very good
So 6-7 changes??
Who’s coming in?

Already asked/answered elsewhere, are you not paying attention. Fair challenge though.
Ross is not quick to react, sometimes wonder if Ross even changes clothes. He seems to like labouring certain points. Our offence seems crap but we need to be sure, sure, sure......it's only R19.

Should be an easy cut n paste for u then
Let’s get your ins/outs since Ross has lost the plot