Grant Thomas

[Teflon]

And don’t forget that Luke Bali’s body was so shot up that he couldn’t get through a whole game of football (apparently) and as such he was benched for the second half of 09

He was but he could st least contribute
Hamil 05 same????

[skeptic]

You’re intensely passionate about this topic aren’t you Teffers?

Way more than I am.

Happy to concede that RL is a better coach but I still reckon he’s incredibly overrated

Don’t know what RL has to do with GT though which is where this thread started. Seems that whenever one is discussed, the comparison with the other is made. I’ve done it too.

[Teflon]

You’re intensely passionate about this topic aren’t you Teffers?

Way more than I am.

Happy to concede that RL is a better coach but I still reckon he’s incredibly overrated

Don’t know what RL has to do with GT though which is where this thread started. Seems that whenever one is discussed, the comparison with the other is made. I’ve done it too.

Now now Skeptic let’s not downplay your undying GT love....I know and you know you’re every bit as passionate in your defence of all things GT (and have been for many years) ...so no need to shy away from that now.
I’m quite pragmatic actually re Lyon (I just can’t stand after the fact hypocrisy re-writing history to suit their narrative).
I think the game has passed Ross by tbh and I’m not convinced he’ll lift the Bkues to a cup ..but I do know he’ll lift football standards at the club across the board.
I also don’t think he can develop /nurture a list ..that’s a massive flaw in Lyons coaching credentials..he’s a “here abs now” coach.
My dislike for Thomas has nothing to do with Lyon.
I’ve said before as caretaker after the Blight mess he was the right person to steady the ship.
What I did not like was the way he then “assumed” the ongoing coaching position....kept declaring if there was someone better he’d step aside....but had no intention of relinquishing control once he had it. That became bad for the club at a time when we truly had done young superstars coming through ... along with mature players still at their best. I do genuinely believe had we had an AFL ready coach with genuine match day’s tactics other than “shoot outs” we’d have a flag.
Anyway pound for pound there is no comparison- people may not like Lyon as a person (I think he’d be an arrogant or!ck in person) but the guy could coach abs he instilled a discipline and consistent game style we’ve not seen since and I think his hard edge to lift standards at our club was sorely needed.
It’s why I worry Ratten lacks that edge and would love a Clarkson but we can only dream.
Coaches like that demand the whole club lifts and are rare.

[Scollop]

You’re intensely passionate about this topic aren’t you Teffers?

Way more than I am.

Happy to concede that RL is a better coach but I still reckon he’s incredibly overrated

Don’t know what RL has to do with GT though which is where this thread started. Seems that whenever one is discussed, the comparison with the other is made. I’ve done it too.

Now now Skeptic let’s not downplay your undying GT love....I know and you know you’re every bit as passionate in your defence of all things GT (and have been for many years) ...so no need to shy away from that now.
I’m quite pragmatic actually re Lyon (I just can’t stand after the fact hypocrisy re-writing history to suit their narrative).
I think the game has passed Ross by tbh and I’m not convinced he’ll lift the Bkues to a cup ..but I do know he’ll lift football standards at the club across the board.
I also don’t think he can develop /nurture a list ..that’s a massive flaw in Lyons coaching credentials..he’s a “here abs now” coach.
My dislike for Thomas has nothing to do with Lyon.
I’ve said before as caretaker after the Blight mess he was the right person to steady the ship.
What I did not like was the way he then “assumed” the ongoing coaching position....kept declaring if there was someone better he’d step aside....but had no intention of relinquishing control once he had it. That became bad for the club at a time when we truly had done young superstars coming through ... along with mature players still at their best. I do genuinely believe had we had an AFL ready coach with genuine match day’s tactics other than “shoot outs” we’d have a flag.
Anyway pound for pound there is no comparison- people may not like Lyon as a person (I think he’d be an arrogant or!ck in person) but the guy could coach abs he instilled a discipline and consistent game style we’ve not seen since and I think his hard edge to lift standards at our club was sorely needed.
It’s why I worry Ratten lacks that edge and would love a Clarkson but we can only dream.
Coaches like that demand the whole club lifts and are rare.

Everything you just wrote is the same stereotypical thoughts from many fans and many in the media and many so called experts and most of it is after the fact.

Have you got anything original to contribute?

At least skeptic and others on this forum have an ability to think for themselves and were critical prior to the shyte hitting the fan with coach X or coach Y

Happy to debate anytime Tef, unless you concede and can't think of any other way to argue the topic without regurgitating the same drivel each time

As far as Ratten is concerned, I'd be more worried about Lethlean and Finnis and their penchant for recruiting (and maybe keeping) players past their prime. Hannas and Hill (and probably a few other deals) were arranged prior to him being appointed senior coach. Ratts also inherited most of his assistants so it'll be interesting to see how we go with new blood

[skeptic]

You’re intensely passionate about this topic aren’t you Teffers?

Way more than I am.

Happy to concede that RL is a better coach but I still reckon he’s incredibly overrated

Don’t know what RL has to do with GT though which is where this thread started. Seems that whenever one is discussed, the comparison with the other is made. I’ve done it too.

Now now Skeptic let’s not downplay your undying GT love....I know and you know you’re every bit as passionate in your defence of all things GT (and have been for many years) ...so no need to shy away from that now.
I’m quite pragmatic actually re Lyon (I just can’t stand after the fact hypocrisy re-writing history to suit their narrative).
I think the game has passed Ross by tbh and I’m not convinced he’ll lift the Bkues to a cup ..but I do know he’ll lift football standards at the club across the board.
I also don’t think he can develop /nurture a list ..that’s a massive flaw in Lyons coaching credentials..he’s a “here abs now” coach.
My dislike for Thomas has nothing to do with Lyon.
I’ve said before as caretaker after the Blight mess he was the right person to steady the ship.
What I did not like was the way he then “assumed” the ongoing coaching position....kept declaring if there was someone better he’d step aside....but had no intention of relinquishing control once he had it. That became bad for the club at a time when we truly had done young superstars coming through ... along with mature players still at their best. I do genuinely believe had we had an AFL ready coach with genuine match day’s tactics other than “shoot outs” we’d have a flag.
Anyway pound for pound there is no comparison- people may not like Lyon as a person (I think he’d be an arrogant or!ck in person) but the guy could coach abs he instilled a discipline and consistent game style we’ve not seen since and I think his hard edge to lift standards at our club was sorely needed.
It’s why I worry Ratten lacks that edge and would love a Clarkson but we can only dream.

I don’t want to misrepresent… I am an unabashed GT fan and think he did a lot of great things. He had an excellent philosophy on recruiting and playing young talent, developing a strong culture etc etc you know the spiel

I am also however, painfully aware of his short comings… not least of which was that he didn’t play that well with others and thought he was much better than he was.

If he was more willing to embrace challenging ideas, and put good people into position that they were suited and listen with an open mind, he/we’d have been better off for it.
Undervaluing medical staff, the move away from Tassie and so publicly passing off the AFL at every turn along with whatever happened with Butters are all things that absolutely still haunt us to this day.

I wouldn’t say I’m unapologetic in my like for GT… ultimately view him as fatally flawed individual that had some incredible qualities but let his ego stop him from capitalising on the opportunity he.
The optimist in me wonders and maybe hopes that he had the chops to learn from his mistakes and adapt.

In the netherworld where we get to see the different ways life could have gone of we made different decisions at key points, I’m very curious to see what a mini-GT rebuild looks like over 2007&08

The core was there after all

Realistically though I think a lot of my affinity comes more so from the fact that 03-06 is/was the most enjoyable era of football I’ve had the pleasure of witnessing.
In addition to being exciting on-field, we were mean with the real stick it up them mentality. I was so sure we’d get there with the 04 prelim along with GF 97 and the subsequent Lyon GFs being the most shattering moments of my fandom
I think there was also still so much character in the game… G-Train and Milne were something else… Harvey let his footy do the talking and Powell could call tell a red headed little $&@“ that he got what he deserved without getting in to too much trouble

Lyon however… I don’t know. I just never warmed to him the same way.
It wasn’t his personality or that he was/wasn’t a great bloke. He was great in front of the camera… and for any criticism I have ever delivered, one cannot take away the respect that he earned from his teams and the leadership he demonstrated within them.
The stuff he did amidst all the off-field scandals in our GF years to keep the team focused and on track is utterly brilliant. Leadership 101
And to be honest… though I far from love how he left, I’ll get it and to be honest have always thought he made the right decision.

I’ve just never been able to get into his stance on development and how he picked his teams. He was so inflexible with regards to his structures… you could just predict a lot of what was going to happen and how particular players would perform.

My concerns started literally GF team selection 09.
The team was to tall, Gardener and King weren’t in great form, Dempster was a puzzling choice… and given Geelong chased down a 30 point lead the last time we played and generally finish strong… why wouldn’t you have more runners?
Especially with what happened with Luke Ball.

My happiest moment of the game was when the one Cat I feared more than any other… the only one I feared… Paul Chapman went off with a hammy. He tore us to ribbons earlier in the year and I was flabbergasted we didn’t have a tag option lined up for him.
He was the only guy that could tear us apart and win it for them and unfortunately for us, that was one call I had right from the begging.

More so though it was 2010 where I got really frustrated.

That was the year when I first really remember getting agitated about the continued selections of underperforming players
McQualter
Eddy
Dempster
Gram
Ray
Gardiner
King
So many of these guys were so out of touch from the year before… so down on form

I found it really challenging to watch the same few champions continually pulling miracle performances and efforts out of their butts to carry us over the line… whilst the Armitage, Steven, Lynch, McEvoy etc barely got a look in.

It’s tricky because I genuinely believed that whilst we were winning more than not… we really weren’t playing well and there was a lot of problems emerging regardless.

Like GT, I just think if he just did things a little better we’d have had a second flag for sure. Definitely two, maybe even three.

I guess the ultimate bias is that the rise of the GT era that quickly was an unexpected and pleasant surprise. RL’s era however felt like what it had all been building up to. That list was at its peak

Have always hated the master coach narrative that ppl take when they look at his W/L ratio because he never had to build the team. He inherited the list both with us and Freo and within a year got to take the shot.
Like GT, I think his approach is ultimately flawed and he lacks a certain dynamism.

Anyway… I don’t really have a point, that’s just how I feel.

Don’t be too mean when tearing this all apart

[takeaway]

You’re intensely passionate about this topic aren’t you Teffers?

Way more than I am.

Happy to concede that RL is a better coach but I still reckon he’s incredibly overrated

Don’t know what RL has to do with GT though which is where this thread started. Seems that whenever one is discussed, the comparison with the other is made. I’ve done it too.

Now now Skeptic let’s not downplay your undying GT love....I know and you know you’re every bit as passionate in your defence of all things GT (and have been for many years) ...so no need to shy away from that now.
I’m quite pragmatic actually re Lyon (I just can’t stand after the fact hypocrisy re-writing history to suit their narrative).
I think the game has passed Ross by tbh and I’m not convinced he’ll lift the Bkues to a cup ..but I do know he’ll lift football standards at the club across the board.
I also don’t think he can develop /nurture a list ..that’s a massive flaw in Lyons coaching credentials..he’s a “here abs now” coach.
My dislike for Thomas has nothing to do with Lyon.
I’ve said before as caretaker after the Blight mess he was the right person to steady the ship.
What I did not like was the way he then “assumed” the ongoing coaching position....kept declaring if there was someone better he’d step aside....but had no intention of relinquishing control once he had it. That became bad for the club at a time when we truly had done young superstars coming through ... along with mature players still at their best. I do genuinely believe had we had an AFL ready coach with genuine match day’s tactics other than “shoot outs” we’d have a flag.
Anyway pound for pound there is no comparison- people may not like Lyon as a person (I think he’d be an arrogant or!ck in person) but the guy could coach abs he instilled a discipline and consistent game style we’ve not seen since and I think his hard edge to lift standards at our club was sorely needed.
It’s why I worry Ratten lacks that edge and would love a Clarkson but we can only dream.
Coaches like that demand the whole club lifts and are rare.

Good post. Sums it up well. It was the right move to have GT as caretaker for the balance of 2001, but in 2002 a proven AFL ready coach should have been appointed to develop probably what was Saints best list ever. The result - at least one flag.

Scoutmaster vs organised pro coach.

[SaintPav]

It depends which way you look at it.

One guy just helped create a company worth $120 million while the other doesn’t understand the risks of leverage and can’t keep his pants on.

What a pro!

[takeaway]

It depends which way you look at it.

One guy just helped create a company worth $120 million while the other doesn’t understand the risks of leverage and can’t keep his pants on.

What a pro!

What's that got to do with football?

Maybe you are right. Should we go after Mike Cannon-Brookes as next head coach?

[Ghost Like]

What's Jeff Bezos doing? He must be a great coach in waiting.

[Yorkeys]

I'd like to see the Foxfooty show GT & The Boss. Their war stories would be great. Have to be on after 8:30pm with GT feeding Rossy the lines. K. Cornes as producer.

[SaintPav]

It depends which way you look at it.

One guy just helped create a company worth $120 million while the other doesn’t understand the risks of leverage and can’t keep his pants on.

What a pro!

What's that got to do with football?

Maybe you are right. Should we go after Mike Cannon-Brookes as next head coach?

About the same as what being a scoutmaster has to do with football.

[SaintPav]

What's Jeff Bezos doing? He must be a great coach in waiting.

Agree.

He’d be a good coach for a few space cadets on here.

[saynta]

It depends which way you look at it.

One guy just helped create a company worth $120 million while the other doesn’t understand the risks of leverage and can’t keep his pants on.

What a pro!

What's that got to do with football?

Maybe you are right. Should we go after Mike Cannon-Brookes as next head coach?

About the same as what being a scoutmaster has to do with football.

[saynta]

From the heraldsun.com.au The tackle

Not all players coached by the tosser loved him, or so it would appear.


"Ed Langdon gave Ross Lyon a little clip on Saturday night with his comments on post-match radio.

Langdon said it was a nice change at Melbourne under a “cool, calm and collected” Simon Goodwin, compared to being at Fremantle where Ross Lyon yelled at players if they didn’t look at him in the eye in meetings."

[B.M]

It’s a known fact Lyon coached his stars differently and built a game plan around them. The rest were role players, to support the big boys. Kids, well they were not trusted with a role within a role!!!

I’ve heard he really only communicated with a dozen or so players, and just expected the rest to do their job.

His stars loved him

A lot of fringe players didn’t like him at all because he didn’t choose to develop them and just pigeon holed them.

At times at training VFL players were used as witches hats for the big boys.

Good game day coach, very good team coach

Poor club coach

[saynta]

It’s a known fact Lyon coached his stars differently and built a game plan around them. The rest were role players, to support the big boys. Kids, well they were not trusted with a role within a role!!!

I’ve heard he really only communicated with a dozen or so players, and just expected the rest to do their job.

His stars loved him

A lot of fringe players didn’t like him at all because he didn’t choose to develop them and just pigeon holed them.

At times at training VFL players were used as witches hats for the big boys.

Good game day coach, very good team coach

Poor club coach

And a poor human being.

[Sanctorum]

This discussion having morphed into RL's coaching style reminded me of an article in the weekend papers about Justin Langer, by Robert Craddock, which starts off as follows:

"A mind guru who worked with Australian cricket teams when Justin Langer was a player believes Langer the coach must conquer a challenge which has tormented many of his hardnosed contemporaries.

It is simply finding the ability to transition into a sensitive new age as a coach, after being raised in a bare-knuckled era as a player.

Langer has been under increased pressure from an unsettled group of Australian players who took umbrage at his old-fashioned intensity.

Performance psychologist Phil Jauncey, who worked with Australia cricket teams during the John Buchanan coaching era and a string of major sporting teams, said adaptability was the key.

“I wouldn’t say it is a softer environment since Justin played, but it’s different,’’ Jauncey said.

“The good coaches have changed and keep adapting. Wayne Bennett coaches differently to when he started because the environment has changed.’’"

The same principles mentioned above apply in the AFL today, and it suggests that the days where a coach can get angry and kickarse players to play the way he has directed are pretty well gone.

Yet I look at coaches such as Clarkson and Longmire who regularly show bursts of fury when players stuff up and wonder how they go about talking to the culprits in the change rooms afterwards about these issues that demonstrably made them angry.....

Gladiator sports such as AFL, unlike the gentleman's game of cricket, consists of fierce contests for the footy and strong physical clashes, with few holds barred (Hi, Hunter Clark) and intense pressure, which must make it really hard for a coach to hold back and become all "sensitive new age" in dealing with a player who did something dumb-arse to gift a goal to the opposition when the game was in the balance!

After he retired I remember Nick Riewoldt when asked what sort of coach he preferred saying that he responded best to the kickarse variety, and I assume that would have been Ross Lyon's style.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

It depends which way you look at it.

One guy just helped create a company worth $120 million while the other doesn’t understand the risks of leverage and can’t keep his pants on.

What a pro!

I've not been following this closely so am I missing something?

I though the RL controversy revolved around a jocular comment about the size of a pregnant-staffer's chest.

Is there more to it than that?

[Teflon]

You’re intensely passionate about this topic aren’t you Teffers?

Way more than I am.

Happy to concede that RL is a better coach but I still reckon he’s incredibly overrated

Don’t know what RL has to do with GT though which is where this thread started. Seems that whenever one is discussed, the comparison with the other is made. I’ve done it too.

Now now Skeptic let’s not downplay your undying GT love....I know and you know you’re every bit as passionate in your defence of all things GT (and have been for many years) ...so no need to shy away from that now.
I’m quite pragmatic actually re Lyon (I just can’t stand after the fact hypocrisy re-writing history to suit their narrative).
I think the game has passed Ross by tbh and I’m not convinced he’ll lift the Bkues to a cup ..but I do know he’ll lift football standards at the club across the board.
I also don’t think he can develop /nurture a list ..that’s a massive flaw in Lyons coaching credentials..he’s a “here abs now” coach.
My dislike for Thomas has nothing to do with Lyon.
I’ve said before as caretaker after the Blight mess he was the right person to steady the ship.
What I did not like was the way he then “assumed” the ongoing coaching position....kept declaring if there was someone better he’d step aside....but had no intention of relinquishing control once he had it. That became bad for the club at a time when we truly had done young superstars coming through ... along with mature players still at their best. I do genuinely believe had we had an AFL ready coach with genuine match day’s tactics other than “shoot outs” we’d have a flag.
Anyway pound for pound there is no comparison- people may not like Lyon as a person (I think he’d be an arrogant or!ck in person) but the guy could coach abs he instilled a discipline and consistent game style we’ve not seen since and I think his hard edge to lift standards at our club was sorely needed.
It’s why I worry Ratten lacks that edge and would love a Clarkson but we can only dream.
Coaches like that demand the whole club lifts and are rare.

Everything you just wrote is the same stereotypical thoughts from many fans and many in the media and many so called experts and most of it is after the fact.

Have you got anything original to contribute?

At least skeptic and others on this forum have an ability to think for themselves and were critical prior to the shyte hitting the fan with coach X or coach Y

Happy to debate anytime Tef, unless you concede and can't think of any other way to argue the topic without regurgitating the same drivel each time

As far as Ratten is concerned, I'd be more worried about Lethlean and Finnis and their penchant for recruiting (and maybe keeping) players past their prime. Hannas and Hill (and probably a few other deals) were arranged prior to him being appointed senior coach. Ratts also inherited most of his assistants so it'll be interesting to see how we go with new blood

You mean original like you??????????
errrr....speechless.

[Teflon]

From the heraldsun.com.au The tackle

Not all players coached by the tosser loved him, or so it would appear.


"Ed Langdon gave Ross Lyon a little clip on Saturday night with his comments on post-match radio.

Langdon said it was a nice change at Melbourne under a “cool, calm and collected” Simon Goodwin, compared to being at Fremantle where Ross Lyon yelled at players if they didn’t look at him in the eye in meetings."

Ed apologised next day and said he was taken out of context
Worse than the ABC....you left that bit out.

[Teflon]

It depends which way you look at it.

One guy just helped create a company worth $120 million while the other doesn’t understand the risks of leverage and can’t keep his pants on.

What a pro!

What's that got to do with football?

Maybe you are right. Should we go after Mike Cannon-Brookes as next head coach?

[Teflon]

You’re intensely passionate about this topic aren’t you Teffers?

Way more than I am.

Happy to concede that RL is a better coach but I still reckon he’s incredibly overrated

Don’t know what RL has to do with GT though which is where this thread started. Seems that whenever one is discussed, the comparison with the other is made. I’ve done it too.

Now now Skeptic let’s not downplay your undying GT love....I know and you know you’re every bit as passionate in your defence of all things GT (and have been for many years) ...so no need to shy away from that now.
I’m quite pragmatic actually re Lyon (I just can’t stand after the fact hypocrisy re-writing history to suit their narrative).
I think the game has passed Ross by tbh and I’m not convinced he’ll lift the Bkues to a cup ..but I do know he’ll lift football standards at the club across the board.
I also don’t think he can develop /nurture a list ..that’s a massive flaw in Lyons coaching credentials..he’s a “here abs now” coach.
My dislike for Thomas has nothing to do with Lyon.
I’ve said before as caretaker after the Blight mess he was the right person to steady the ship.
What I did not like was the way he then “assumed” the ongoing coaching position....kept declaring if there was someone better he’d step aside....but had no intention of relinquishing control once he had it. That became bad for the club at a time when we truly had done young superstars coming through ... along with mature players still at their best. I do genuinely believe had we had an AFL ready coach with genuine match day’s tactics other than “shoot outs” we’d have a flag.
Anyway pound for pound there is no comparison- people may not like Lyon as a person (I think he’d be an arrogant or!ck in person) but the guy could coach abs he instilled a discipline and consistent game style we’ve not seen since and I think his hard edge to lift standards at our club was sorely needed.
It’s why I worry Ratten lacks that edge and would love a Clarkson but we can only dream.

I don’t want to misrepresent… I am an unabashed GT fan and think he did a lot of great things. He had an excellent philosophy on recruiting and playing young talent, developing a strong culture etc etc you know the spiel

I am also however, painfully aware of his short comings… not least of which was that he didn’t play that well with others and thought he was much better than he was.

If he was more willing to embrace challenging ideas, and put good people into position that they were suited and listen with an open mind, he/we’d have been better off for it.
Undervaluing medical staff, the move away from Tassie and so publicly passing off the AFL at every turn along with whatever happened with Butters are all things that absolutely still haunt us to this day.

I wouldn’t say I’m unapologetic in my like for GT… ultimately view him as fatally flawed individual that had some incredible qualities but let his ego stop him from capitalising on the opportunity he.
The optimist in me wonders and maybe hopes that he had the chops to learn from his mistakes and adapt.

In the netherworld where we get to see the different ways life could have gone of we made different decisions at key points, I’m very curious to see what a mini-GT rebuild looks like over 2007&08

The core was there after all

Realistically though I think a lot of my affinity comes more so from the fact that 03-06 is/was the most enjoyable era of football I’ve had the pleasure of witnessing.
In addition to being exciting on-field, we were mean with the real stick it up them mentality. I was so sure we’d get there with the 04 prelim along with GF 97 and the subsequent Lyon GFs being the most shattering moments of my fandom
I think there was also still so much character in the game… G-Train and Milne were something else… Harvey let his footy do the talking and Powell could call tell a red headed little $&@“ that he got what he deserved without getting in to too much trouble

Lyon however… I don’t know. I just never warmed to him the same way.
It wasn’t his personality or that he was/wasn’t a great bloke. He was great in front of the camera… and for any criticism I have ever delivered, one cannot take away the respect that he earned from his teams and the leadership he demonstrated within them.
The stuff he did amidst all the off-field scandals in our GF years to keep the team focused and on track is utterly brilliant. Leadership 101
And to be honest… though I far from love how he left, I’ll get it and to be honest have always thought he made the right decision.

I’ve just never been able to get into his stance on development and how he picked his teams. He was so inflexible with regards to his structures… you could just predict a lot of what was going to happen and how particular players would perform.

My concerns started literally GF team selection 09.
The team was to tall, Gardener and King weren’t in great form, Dempster was a puzzling choice… and given Geelong chased down a 30 point lead the last time we played and generally finish strong… why wouldn’t you have more runners?
Especially with what happened with Luke Ball.

My happiest moment of the game was when the one Cat I feared more than any other… the only one I feared… Paul Chapman went off with a hammy. He tore us to ribbons earlier in the year and I was flabbergasted we didn’t have a tag option lined up for him.
He was the only guy that could tear us apart and win it for them and unfortunately for us, that was one call I had right from the begging.

More so though it was 2010 where I got really frustrated.

That was the year when I first really remember getting agitated about the continued selections of underperforming players
McQualter
Eddy
Dempster
Gram
Ray
Gardiner
King
So many of these guys were so out of touch from the year before… so down on form

I found it really challenging to watch the same few champions continually pulling miracle performances and efforts out of their butts to carry us over the line… whilst the Armitage, Steven, Lynch, McEvoy etc barely got a look in.

It’s tricky because I genuinely believed that whilst we were winning more than not… we really weren’t playing well and there was a lot of problems emerging regardless.

Like GT, I just think if he just did things a little better we’d have had a second flag for sure. Definitely two, maybe even three.

I guess the ultimate bias is that the rise of the GT era that quickly was an unexpected and pleasant surprise. RL’s era however felt like what it had all been building up to. That list was at its peak

Have always hated the master coach narrative that ppl take when they look at his W/L ratio because he never had to build the team. He inherited the list both with us and Freo and within a year got to take the shot.
Like GT, I think his approach is ultimately flawed and he lacks a certain dynamism.

Anyway… I don’t really have a point, that’s just how I feel.

Don’t be too mean when tearing this all apart

Good post Skeptic and fair enough that’s your take and I can understand after the Timmid years how GT felt like some sort of saviour.
I guess to me I looked for genuine ingenuity out of the box from a guy who basically took over our club. I didn’t see it abs heard lots of corporate spin. I felt Thomas by far had the best blend of youth/up and coming guns and some superstars in Harvey, Gehrig, Hamil, Hudgton , Thompson, Jones etc
Re Lyon team selection- sorry but 09 had nothing to do with selection and all to do with execution....when Schneider starts missing snaps over the shoulder from inside the goal square I started to wonder if these misses would come back to bite. They did.
We had all the play and opportunities to put them under enormous pressure abs our players didn’t take their chances. Lyon can’t kick it for them.
2010 I felt we were getting old - Pies best side and had Cloke kicked straight we’d never been in it. Fortunately our experienced stars in Hayes and Goddard had other ideas but had we won it I think we’d have pinched it. A week later proved an old tired Saints were no match for a younger Pies outfit.
Lyons core failing as a coach is he is unproven at developing players - he’s a here abs now guy and I’m not even sure if his style has evolved and if he’ll be any good at Blues. But he could coach and instil a hard edge into a side that we’ve lacked for a while.

[Teflon]

Nick Riewoldt : FoxFooty

Riewoldt, who played five of his 17 seasons under Lyon at St Kilda, took umbrage with critics questioning his former coach’s credentials.
“Ross Lyon is a leader of men. He doesn’t just develop football players, he helps young men grow to be outstanding people – that’s the one thing that stood out for me about Ross Lyon all the while through,” he said.
“Clearly I have a great relationship with him, but I say that hand on heart.”

[saynta]

From the heraldsun.com.au The tackle

Not all players coached by the tosser loved him, or so it would appear.


"Ed Langdon gave Ross Lyon a little clip on Saturday night with his comments on post-match radio.

Langdon said it was a nice change at Melbourne under a “cool, calm and collected” Simon Goodwin, compared to being at Fremantle where Ross Lyon yelled at players if they didn’t look at him in the eye in meetings."

Ed apologised next day and said he was taken out of context
Worse than the ABC....you left that bit out.

No. That came later. Ed came crawling back the NEXT day as you pointed out.

Not a man prepared to stick by his words it would seem.

[Teflon]

From the heraldsun.com.au The tackle

Not all players coached by the tosser loved him, or so it would appear.


"Ed Langdon gave Ross Lyon a little clip on Saturday night with his comments on post-match radio.

Langdon said it was a nice change at Melbourne under a “cool, calm and collected” Simon Goodwin, compared to being at Fremantle where Ross Lyon yelled at players if they didn’t look at him in the eye in meetings."

Ed apologised next day and said he was taken out of context
Worse than the ABC....you left that bit out.

No. That came later. Ed came crawling back the NEXT day as you pointed out.

Not a man prepared to stick by his words it would seem.

So now Ed’s a scumbag as well as Lyon??