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To the top wrote: ↑Tue 27 Aug 2019 8:53pm
A protruding disk putting pressure on a nerve renders you a cripple - and in agony unable to move
The initial response is physio (where they can not get anywhere near where the problem is initially because of pain) and if that is not successful surgery, which is complicated with risk
Surgery is the last resort - and everything is done to avert surgery
The fact that Carlisle had surgery speaks to the severity of the impact on the nerve (which also impacts elsewhere If it is your L7 in the neck region it paralyses an arm by way of example)
Post the surgery there is rehabilitation - and rehabilitation is difficult enough without surgery, taking time and a religious exercise regime
I can assure you that pressure on a nerve in the spine is debilitating and far worse than the worst of tooth pain also due to pressure on a nerve (think root canal where they kill the nerve)
The fact that he even returned to play AFL footy as he has shows commitment
Those questioning Carlisle as they are should take a cold shower - or better still be inflicted by a similar condition to the extent of having pain killer tubes stuck in their arms such is the pain from which you can obtain no relief
The uneducated telling their fellow uneducated what they do not know
The one thing I imagine from surgery is that you do not need to take the care you need to take if you do not undergo surgery - including on going physio visits because they can do what you can not do in maintaining flexibility which is key
Good post to the top.
Agreed, good perspective.
If I knew Carlisle could get back to his best, I wouldn't trade him. It's as simple as that.
B.M wrote: ↑Mon 26 Aug 2019 9:31pm
I’d prefer he has a crack all the time
Effort is a non negotiable, can’t pick and choose... that’s a sign of character
He’s the sort of player that’d let you down in a big game due to his attitude being less than average
I was disgusted by his last game
Granted his last game was poor, he had a few mates, I didn't even notice Billings was playing until late in the 3rd! I kept looking for who had replaced him.
I don't think its an effort issue, he's a cool head and I don't think he has quite got his touch & reading of the play back, since he returned. Still he had a couple of great games.
To the top wrote: ↑Tue 27 Aug 2019 8:53pm
A protruding disk putting pressure on a nerve renders you a cripple - and in agony unable to move
The initial response is physio (where they can not get anywhere near where the problem is initially because of pain) and if that is not successful surgery, which is complicated with risk
Surgery is the last resort - and everything is done to avert surgery
The fact that Carlisle had surgery speaks to the severity of the impact on the nerve (which also impacts elsewhere If it is your L7 in the neck region it paralyses an arm by way of example)
Post the surgery there is rehabilitation - and rehabilitation is difficult enough without surgery, taking time and a religious exercise regime
I can assure you that pressure on a nerve in the spine is debilitating and far worse than the worst of tooth pain also due to pressure on a nerve (think root canal where they kill the nerve)
The fact that he even returned to play AFL footy as he has shows commitment
Those questioning Carlisle as they are should take a cold shower - or better still be inflicted by a similar condition to the extent of having pain killer tubes stuck in their arms such is the pain from which you can obtain no relief
The uneducated telling their fellow uneducated what they do not know
The one thing I imagine from surgery is that you do not need to take the care you need to take if you do not undergo surgery - including on going physio visits because they can do what you can not do in maintaining flexibility which is key
Good post to the top.
Agreed, good perspective.
If I knew Carlisle could get back to his best, I wouldn't trade him. It's as simple as that.
And the fact that the first team that is circling him is Hawthorn, indicates he will get right. We should be mindful of what occurred with Tom Scully.
While TTT has described a detailed and obviously personal view on a prolapsed disc he did not mention two other scenarios
Carlisle could have had a vertebrae fusion which would have made the joint stronger but possibly impacted flexibility
The other major outcome is he will never come back to what he was and this is highly likely
The fact that some still think he will be able to carry out second ruck duties makes me laugh
Stkilda has been a medical waiting room for the past two seasons add to that recruiting four players in 2019 that already had injury
Im sorry but its time to get ruthless
Hawthorn have been successful in rehabilitating players & they may have the best medicos going round in the meantime they have maintained a competitive side - we have not
If we get a good offer then I would take it in a heartbeat
I repeat that surgery is an absolute last resort - and with surgery there are no guarantees
The problem is pressure on a nerve and releasing that pressure
In regards spinal conditions placing pressure on a nerve, I note that James Pattinson took the last resort available in undergoing surgery but I am unaware of the condition and if that condition put pressure on a nerve
It will be interesting to see how Mitchell rehabilitates because there would be damage to the multitude of tendons in the ankle (the most complex joint)
I would suggest that Mitchell’s ankle has not been fused because fusion would have finished his career
Injuries, hey?
And they require management over your life time which you do not consider when you are in your 20’s and bullet proof - which you are not!
- Carlisle wants 3 years
- Saints say ‘hold on is your body up to it? If you want three and a club will give u it we will facilitate a trade.’
- Carlisle looks for 3 years at another club on very good coin, no-one wants guns.
- Carlisle stays at saints on a two year deal with a trigger for third.
If he gets three and we get a first rounder for him take it. His back is a worry and Battle is more than capable of filling his shoes.
The Recruit wrote: ↑Wed 28 Aug 2019 10:53pm
- Carlisle wants 3 years
- Saints say ‘hold on is your body up to it? If you want three and a club will give u it we will facilitate a trade.’
- Carlisle looks for 3 years at another club on very good coin, no-one wants guns.
- Carlisle stays at saints on a two year deal with a trigger for third.
If he gets three and we get a first rounder for him take it. His back is a worry and Battle is more than capable of filling his shoes.
And in any event of Carlisle going who is the taller, and I use that description on purpose because I do not describe Battle as tall at 193cm, option to support Battle and absent Brown who I view is stop gap because of that lack of options
No doubt we rely on the potential which is Claravino, Austin and Joyce, at 196, 196 and 194cm respectively
Then you look at the size of the forwards on the Lists of the Clubs which are in contention - and others who are not
So, absent Carlisle, are we undersized?
As we have been in attack absent McCartin and King (so a big ask on King)
Plus we only have Marshall as a ruckman
In a perfect world I would see Battle off a flank including playing as a swing player between defence and attack
That is the flexibility Carlisle offers
And leave full back and a tall back pocket defender to resolve from the resources I have named
Carlisle is valuable apart from being an outer line key defender because he affords flexibility with the likes of Battle
And imagine if Roberton returns
To add to Clark and Coffield
Then our defence will start to come up to scratch
And our percentage may actually improve from the disaster it is - because our percentage is and has been absolutely woeful hence where the side is mired on the table
B.M wrote: ↑Fri 30 Aug 2019 10:35pm
Carlisle is not 203cm
No, he isn't quite that tall, but he's 200 cm.
Club should keep him, will be better with a pre-season. He shouldn't have played at all this season. But he had to because of our injury circumstances.
To the top wrote: ↑Fri 30 Aug 2019 4:54pm
Battle is 193cm
Carlisle is 203cm
And in any event of Carlisle going who is the taller, and I use that description on purpose because I do not describe Battle as tall at 193cm, option to support Battle and absent Brown who I view is stop gap because of that lack of options
No doubt we rely on the potential which is Claravino, Austin and Joyce, at 196, 196 and 194cm respectively
Then you look at the size of the forwards on the Lists of the Clubs which are in contention - and others who are not
So, absent Carlisle, are we undersized?
As we have been in attack absent McCartin and King (so a big ask on King)
Plus we only have Marshall as a ruckman
In a perfect world I would see Battle off a flank including playing as a swing player between defence and attack
That is the flexibility Carlisle offers
And leave full back and a tall back pocket defender to resolve from the resources I have named
Carlisle is valuable apart from being an outer line key defender because he affords flexibility with the likes of Battle
And imagine if Roberton returns
To add to Clark and Coffield
Then our defence will start to come up to scratch
And our percentage may actually improve from the disaster it is - because our percentage is and has been absolutely woeful hence where the side is mired on the table
Back pockets and flanks?
Perhaps we can play our 2nd rover and 2nd ruck in the forward pockets.
Who do you think should be our 19th & 20th.
Choose wisely as once they come on the ground the player who comes off can’t return.
Proudly assuming the title of forum Oracle and serving as the inaugural Saintsational ‘weak as piss brigade’ President.
sunsaint wrote: ↑Wed 28 Aug 2019 6:14pm
it was squarely RL & Missions fault
he did not go to collingwood a broken injured player
Once again you make history up
Luke Ball was flogged under Grab Thomas who invested NOTHING in player injury management and recovery
It wasn’t until Lyon insisted on Misson we started to look ok on that front
I get you don’t like Lyon but geezus stop making crap up
Teflon I know you love RL but it's you that twist the truth
Ball's games each year went down under RL
RL coached him for 3 years before he saw the writing on the wall in no uncertain terms be was not valued
The final straw came in his last game for the Saints where he was kept on the bench in the last quarter
Mission did not believe he could run out games and RL wanted him to run and spread not just dish out the contested ball
If you want to argue those facts go ahead
sunsaint wrote: ↑Wed 28 Aug 2019 6:14pm
it was squarely RL & Missions fault
he did not go to collingwood a broken injured player
Once again you make history up
Luke Ball was flogged under Grab Thomas who invested NOTHING in player injury management and recovery
It wasn’t until Lyon insisted on Misson we started to look ok on that front
I get you don’t like Lyon but geezus stop making crap up
Thanks for calling this bulls*** out.
Rewriting history at its best.
I remember Lyon’s appointment press conference and the whole collective media new coach and president laughing at the fact there were no training services established from the GT reign.
B.M wrote: ↑Tue 27 Aug 2019 8:56pm
So we recruit a guy who isn’t good enough to make a good team, in order to become a good team... yep, makes perfect sense
What age were Bruce and Steele when we recruited them?
I think he's good enough, the Giants think he's good enough, you don't.
I think he'll improve our list, you don't.
So tell me, how do we improve our list? I know you are dreaming of a circa 2000 list cleansing & top up but that isn't going to happen and we are devoid of draft picks.
I get you don't rate Carlisle, Acres and Coffield but believe in Lonie. I think Carlisle, Acres and Coffield make St Kilda an infinitely better side when they are playing well, you don't, just a difference of opinion. May not be right but you may not be either.
Ghost like, don’t bother.
When a poster makes up facts like Tomlinson can’t get a game with GWS (who’s played 22 games this year) it’s not worth it.
Posters making things up like this (lies) just makes the forum a worse off place.
You must agree, Ross bungled the use of Luke Ball, and the trading of Luke Ball? Surely?.
Even Lyon would like his time over again wrt Ball
Club got wind that Ball made a deal to go to Collingwood half way through the 2009 season.
Whether the club knew or suspected Ball's deal is neither here nor there. Ball in my opinion disowned the club and has continued to, Lyon may have been the trigger but the Club's management of Ball's OP was the likely foundation.
Lyon made a mistake on GF day with Ball and admitted as much. Ball did the Club no favours, hence why we got nothing for him & Collingwood got everything.
For someone that got a talented group of players playing a hard edged brand of football, Lyon got a fair bit wrong when it came to selection & recruiting. Just one piece of the puzzle (not all Lyon's fault) as to why we are where we are now & Geelong has a rich recent history and where they are today.
sainterinsydney wrote: ↑Fri 30 Aug 2019 1:41pm
Maybe this whole Carlisle trade scenario is the club's way of scaring him into pulling his finger out on the football field?
I think that is asking for trouble with Carlisle sainterinsydney. Carlisle strikes me as someone who'd throw his bum in the corner. He strikes me as someone who prefers their ego stroked rather than have it questioned.
If you are right, god help us if he gets what he wants & we continue to be mediocre. Jake, in my opinion, mirrors the Club's plight. If we are average, Jake will be average. If we are flying, Jake will be also. This is what makes Carlisle so polarising, in my opinion.
