2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.

[skeptic]

Apparently nobody on SS could figure out on their own that coaches are about teaching, development, culture... etc you need to be a coach to understand that.

Profoundly insightful stuff.

Here’s a hint for you both... when ppl bring up the % thing, what they mean is that it could indicate that Richo may not have done so well in those areas because their performance is an indicator over a longer period that they’re not being as successful as people projected they should be.
I’m sure you have response to why that is incorrect.

The problem is... as it has been for a while, when reasons about “the facts and arguments” as you put it Ted are suggested, the repeated response from you, SCSO and now Flagless is... you guys don’t know what coaching is.

It’s not actually even worth arguing with you.

It’s like when SCSO was sledging Hickey game after game for being beaten in the hit outs as a reason for losing... then he won the hitouts but we lost the match so suddenly the results mattered most.
Ppl called him on his BS when he was trounced by Gawn and he just changed the argument well we won the game so that proves it.

Quite literally your arguments are summed as “we say things are a particular way” e.g. Minch had no supporters here... people dismantle your arguments and then it’s “you’re not qualified for an opinion”

[stonecold]

Don't know what coaching is?????

Seriously, you put your qualifications on the table then, I'm quite confident I have you covered in both areas of playing and coaching!!!!!

You have no trust or loyalty in coaches at St.Kilda, think you know better?????

Enough said really!!!!!

Step up then champion, I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously, what are your qualifications?????

[sunsaint]

New SS posting rule
In your profile you must state your AFL credentials & past history
This must be verifiable

Otherwise your opinion is worthless & pointless
and you can't post here anymore

[skeptic]

What qualifications do I need?

Am I incapable of judging that our skills are poor? That we’re missing lots of set shots?
That our structure has been poor e.g. Acres in the ruck
That many players have stagnated in their development? Billings and Paddy
That our selection is questionable? e.g. playing an injured Longer in round 2 and persevering with an injured Weller for 2017.
That we haven’t traded as effectively as we would have liked over several years? Not been able to recruit a gun outside mid for 3 years.

Exactly what is this high level qualification that I need to observe and understand football?

Enlighten me please of this profound insight that you have on anything that is completely beyond my comprehension to understand? Especially given that from where I sit... you seem incapable of winning an argument with anyone here on anything and resort to threats and your ‘qualification’ to make your point for you.

Yes I don’t rate Richo.
I’m a fan of Hamil
Most of the other coaches are new to us but seem like good gets... shocking stuff

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

No need for credentials.

Posters that have never played or coached or been involved in footy at any level need to stop posting complete and utter bulls*** and criticism about paid professionals at the Saints footy club.

In reality, you have NFI what you are talking about most the time.

[skeptic]

No need for credentials.

Posters that have never played or coached or been involved in footy at any level need to stop posting complete and utter bulls*** and criticism about paid professionals at the Saints footy club.

Not that you’ll answer...

But by that logic am I also unqualified to post positive stuff e.g. I really rate Gresham? That’s equally invalid right?

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

No its not as its positive.

Don't criticize or bag what you never were or are and/or can't understand.

You will never get it.

[Whiskey]

Don't know what coaching is?????

Seriously, you put your qualifications on the table then, I'm quite confident I have you covered in both areas of playing and coaching!!!!!

You have no trust or loyalty in coaches at St.Kilda, think you know better?????

Enough said really!!!!!

Step up then champion, I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously, what are your qualifications?????

Where are yours? Really ? Other than just telling everyone yr an expert and a ruckman and u can fight bla bla bla. So?

[skeptic]

No its not as its positive.

Don't criticize or bag what you never were or are and/or can't understand.

You will never get it.

Right so because of my lack of football qualifications I’m incapable of accurately making negative observations but at the same time I am qualified to make positive ones.

Nick Riewoldt kicks a goal from 30m out directly in front... I should say good kick
Nick Riewoldt misses a goal from 30m out directly in front... I don’t know whether that was a good kick or not

That’s seriously your argument?

[stonecold]

Don't know what coaching is?????

Seriously, you put your qualifications on the table then, I'm quite confident I have you covered in both areas of playing and coaching!!!!!

You have no trust or loyalty in coaches at St.Kilda, think you know better?????

Enough said really!!!!!

Step up then champion, I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously, what are your qualifications?????

Where are yours? Really ? Other than just telling everyone yr an expert and a ruckman and u can fight bla bla bla. So?

I happy to tell you in person, already made that offer, but there's not enough beer in the world for you to muster up that courage!!!!!

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Skeptic...you just don't get it or you're acting plain dumb full well knowing what I mean.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, just don't pretend you know what you're talking about.

[skeptic]

Don't know what coaching is?????

Seriously, you put your qualifications on the table then, I'm quite confident I have you covered in both areas of playing and coaching!!!!!

You have no trust or loyalty in coaches at St.Kilda, think you know better?????

Enough said really!!!!!

Step up then champion, I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously, what are your qualifications?????

Where are yours? Really ? Other than just telling everyone yr an expert and a ruckman and u can fight bla bla bla. So?

I happy to tell you in person, already made that offer, but there's not enough beer in the world for you to muster up that courage!!!!!

Well you certainly can’t demonstrate your knowledge online that’s for sure.

I’m curious though... follow the logic through for me.

Am I more qualified if I coached U9s football?
What if I said I coached state level basketball... more or less qualified?
I’ve provided therapy to an AFL footballer that improved his performance post same... does that make me more qualified?
What if I said I was a VFL umpire?
He about if I hung around the coaching rooms at Sandy during the addresses yes or no.

Draw the line

[stonecold]

Don't know what coaching is?????

Seriously, you put your qualifications on the table then, I'm quite confident I have you covered in both areas of playing and coaching!!!!!

You have no trust or loyalty in coaches at St.Kilda, think you know better?????

Enough said really!!!!!

Step up then champion, I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously, what are your qualifications?????

Where are yours? Really ? Other than just telling everyone yr an expert and a ruckman and u can fight bla bla bla. So?

I happy to tell you in person, already made that offer, but there's not enough beer in the world for you to muster up that courage!!!!!

Well you certainly can’t demonstrate your knowledge online that’s for sure.

I’m curious though... follow the logic through for me.

Am I more qualified if I coached U9s football?
What if I said I coached state level basketball... more or less qualified?
I’ve provided therapy to an AFL footballer that improved his performance post same... does that make me more qualified?
What if I said I was a VFL umpire?
He about if I hung around the coaching rooms at Sandy during the addresses yes or no.

Draw the line

You maybe qualified on AFL if you've been involved directly!!!!!

[skeptic]

Don't know what coaching is?????

Seriously, you put your qualifications on the table then, I'm quite confident I have you covered in both areas of playing and coaching!!!!!

You have no trust or loyalty in coaches at St.Kilda, think you know better?????

Enough said really!!!!!

Step up then champion, I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously, what are your qualifications?????

Where are yours? Really ? Other than just telling everyone yr an expert and a ruckman and u can fight bla bla bla. So?

I happy to tell you in person, already made that offer, but there's not enough beer in the world for you to muster up that courage!!!!!

Well you certainly can’t demonstrate your knowledge online that’s for sure.

I’m curious though... follow the logic through for me.

Am I more qualified if I coached U9s football?
What if I said I coached state level basketball... more or less qualified?
I’ve provided therapy to an AFL footballer that improved his performance post same... does that make me more qualified?
What if I said I was a VFL umpire?
He about if I hung around the coaching rooms at Sandy during the addresses yes or no.

Draw the line

You maybe qualified on AFL if you've been involved directly!!!!!

What qualifications do you have that prove you can make determinations about qualifications?

Lay them out

[stonecold]

[quote=skeptic post_id=1765761 time=1541156108 user_id=130]
[quote=stonecold post_id=1765758 time=1541155972 user_id=22479]
[quote=skeptic post_id=1765755 time=1541155501 user_id=130]
[quote=stonecold post_id=1765751 time=1541155165 user_id=22479]
[quote=Whiskey post_id=1765746 time=1541154551 user_id=23362]
[quote=stonecold post_id=1765728 time=1541150656 user_id=22479]
Don't know what coaching is?????

Seriously, you put your qualifications on the table then, I'm quite confident I have you covered in both areas of playing and coaching!!!!!

You have no trust or loyalty in coaches at St.Kilda, think you know better?????

Enough said really!!!!!

Step up then champion, I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously, what are your qualifications?????
[/quote]

Where are yours? Really ? Other than just telling everyone yr an expert and a ruckman and u can fight bla bla bla. So?
[/quote]


I happy to tell you in person, already made that offer, but there's not enough beer in the world for you to muster up that courage!!!!!
[/quote]

Well you certainly can’t demonstrate your knowledge online that’s for sure.

I’m curious though... follow the logic through for me.

Am I more qualified if I coached U9s football?
What if I said I coached state level basketball... more or less qualified?
I’ve provided therapy to an AFL footballer that improved his performance post same... does that make me more qualified?
What if I said I was a VFL umpire?
He about if I hung around the coaching rooms at Sandy during the addresses yes or no.

Draw the line
[/quote]

You maybe qualified on AFL if you've been involved directly!!!!!
[/quote]

What qualifications do you have that prove you can make determinations about qualifications?

Lay them out
[/quote]

Yeah right, there's a few posters on here who know who I am, that's good enough, cause I'm gonna come out and reveal who I am,everyone does that, not!!!!!

[skeptic]

You didn’t get it did you?

[stonecold]

You didn’t get it did you?

You didn't!!!!!

[Myron Gaines]

You didn’t get it did you?

You didn't!!!!!

Please tell me you are just having a laugh & don’t really believe Richo is a capable head coach?

There’s a reason he was overlooked as head coach for so long & failed many an attempts to gain a head role. He’s a journeyman.

The guy flat out refused to interview for our role & made us beg for his services. Then he has the hide to demand an extension despite not earning one.

Best you have a think about the culture of not only the Collingwood fans but also their players in the era Richo played in & incl that famous game at vic park.

Richo has never had respect for our club & is simply a blow in. Piss him off ffs & get someone in that bleeds for the club.

I don’t need to have played or coached at the highest level to know Richo’s a garbage head coach. He’d be better suited to given the boys a rub down at half time or better yet cooking the snags at Bunnings.

[Myron Gaines]

I honestly think Richo will struggle to retain his job beyond next year. Only finals & he’s safe imo. Club has bigger plans & are biting their time. We are sick of the pony & may upgrade to a horse.

[takeaway]

You didn’t get it did you?

You didn't!!!!!

Please tell me you are just having a laugh & don’t really believe Richo is a capable head coach?

There’s a reason he was overlooked as head coach for so long & failed many an attempts to gain a head role. He’s a journeyman.

The guy flat out refused to interview for our role & made us beg for his services. Then he has the hide to demand an extension despite not earning one.

Best you have a think about the culture of not only the Collingwood fans but also their players in the era Richo played in & incl that famous game at vic park.

Richo has never had respect for our club & is simply a blow in. Piss him off ffs & get someone in that bleeds for the club.

I don’t need to have played or coached at the highest level to know Richo’s a garbage head coach. He’d be better suited to given the boys a rub down at half time or cooking the snags at Bunnings.

Fair enough if you think Richo is not good enough. Probably next year will finally determine that.

But how do you determine that Richo has no respect for the club, that he refused to be interviewed (which from my sources is just plain wrong), and what on earth has the culture of Collingwood fans and players (all of them?), in Richos era have to do with Richo coaching Saints now? There are also plenty of assistant coaches who have done the merry go round of clubs for a long period, and most don't get the main gig.

If I were you I wouldn't bother trying to get any qualifications at all.

[Whiskey]

Don't know what coaching is?????

Seriously, you put your qualifications on the table then, I'm quite confident I have you covered in both areas of playing and coaching!!!!!

You have no trust or loyalty in coaches at St.Kilda, think you know better?????

Enough said really!!!!!

Step up then champion, I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously, what are your qualifications?????

Where are yours? Really ? Other than just telling everyone yr an expert and a ruckman and u can fight bla bla bla. So?

I happy to tell you in person, already made that offer, but there's not enough beer in the world for you to muster up that courage!!!!!

Well you certainly can’t demonstrate your knowledge online that’s for sure.

I’m curious though... follow the logic through for me.

Am I more qualified if I coached U9s football?
What if I said I coached state level basketball... more or less qualified?
I’ve provided therapy to an AFL footballer that improved his performance post same... does that make me more qualified?
What if I said I was a VFL umpire?
He about if I hung around the coaching rooms at Sandy during the addresses yes or no.

Draw the line

You maybe qualified on AFL if you've been involved directly!!!!!

What qualifications do you have that prove you can make determinations about qualifications?

Lay them out

Yeah right, there's a few posters on here who know who I am, that's good enough, cause I'm gonna come out and reveal who I am,everyone does that, not!!!!!

There is no doubt in my mind that u have no qualifications and u have never played at any reasonable level. Why? Because u come across as an absolute loser constantly telling everyone how special u are because you are desperately trying to compensate. The internet is the only place u can be somebody. U are possibly the most pathetic person i ve ever come across

[st.byron]

First up, cards on the table. Richardson has completely lost me. How he is still in the role is just astounding really. Pathetic, matey performance management. Fish rots at the head. Runs are just not on the board.

We would have to win 18+ games next year to have me thinking otherwise.

I hate sacking coaches. It just reeks of failure and bad management. Never, ever a good look.

So riddle me these hypotheticals.

• We win five games or less. We sack a coach. Probably before the half way point of the year. Season will be dusted... we lose. Wont be able to attract any players come season end. We lose.

• We win five to ten. Good god.... They might actually consider giving him another year. We lose.

• We win Ten to thirteen games and make the finals, going out first week. Extension imminent. We lose.

• We win Thirteen to sixteen games. Win a final. Ratten influence. Extension granted. Christ maybe even two years.

• Sixteen wins or more, win two finals and make a prelim. f*** sake two years. Ratten influence.

• We win the flag and he coaches for ten years.... more. We win.

Honestly, give him the arse now. Do it. Just damn well pull the band aid off and start fresh. Give it to Ratten.

I just do not trust that Richardson is the guy that is going to get us back at the pointy end. How can you? Blind faith? We cant afford blind faith.

If he says "park that fifteen minutes" once in 2019 my TV will be in trouble.

Just a question to all those wanting Richardson sacked- how many have ever coached a season of senior footy ?

Are you going to vote in the upcoming state or federal elections? Question for you.
Have you ever been Prime Minister or Premier?
By the logic in the above post, you’re not qualified to have or express an opinion if you haven’t held those offices.

I never said anything about not having an opinion, but if you haven't coached you don' t know what you are talking about. I've never heard so many experts on coaching that have never picked up a clip board, because if they had they wouldn't espouse so much rubbish

So......I’m allowed to have an opinion...but it’s invalid because I’ve never been a senior AFL coach. That would render pretty much every commentator, ex player, armchair observer, everyone who hasn’t coached at senior AFL level unqualified to comment. Pretty narrow cohort that one.

And in Richardson’s case, all you need to know are the following facts :
5 years
33%
Zero finals
Then there is the less quantifiable matter of player development. We’re not shining are we?

That inane comment pretty much sums up how much you know about coaching.
Coaching is about maximising potential,. It's different to teaching, it's about getting players to learn, its about making them aware but also self aware. When Reiwoldt , Montagna and co were there they got to 9th, with the list at his disposal that was about as good as they were capable. With them gone and the talent, experience, leadership vacuum that was created, coupled with injuries to key players at crucial times, its doubtful a Clarkson/Sheedy/Norm Smith clone would have done much better. There are 17 other clubs in the comp, the fact is they have recruited better and they have more top line talent- The saints didn't have one player make All Australian this year- doesn't that tell you something- we lack class.
Very simplistic to say there has been no development- players develop at different rates, I' d argue that we seen significant development in Jack Steel, Battle, Gresham, Marshall, Long (despite his injuries) and even Lonie who despite being dropped several times, the coach showed faith in him and he returned that faith with some solid efforts towards the end of the year.
Coaching is a very tough gig, those on the outside are completely unaware of all the issues at play, whether it be players personal problems, mental health issues, confidence, anxiety etc. The best laid plans can come undone very quickly and the coach doesn' t always have total control. People on these pages who simply state "he can' t coach" are immature in the extreme and really have no idea what coaching is

Imagine how it would be to not start your response with a personal put down. That would be awesome.

Re the rest of your post, thanks for the debate. Agree with you that we lost a lot of on field leadership, but I don’t buy the argument that it excuses Richardson for our dismal year. I’m interpreting your argument along the same lines as those of Samoht and others who lay pretty much zero accountability at Richardson’s door. It’s all about our players not having enough talent, rather than Richardson being a rubbish coach. If that’s your view, you’re entitled to it, but I disagree.
I personally think that view gives Richardson a way too easy out. “It’s the fault of everyone else around him, but he did the best anyone could have expected in the circumstances.” It’s certainly the view the club has been advocating and we saw in the second half of last year a clear laying of blame at the players’ feet without any accountability whatsoever from Richardson or other senior management. That really stunk in my view.

Yes, development from Steele, Battle, Gresham, Marshall. Some signs there for the future. What of Acres, Dunstan, Billings, Membrey, White, McCartin, Sinclair?

But beyond looking at individual’s development, the way the team played spoke volumes about their level of belief and cohesiveness as a team. Those elements I hold Richardson directly accountable for - and we were absolute rubbish.

You could be right that all the other elements you’ve named are the real key factors in our rubbish year. The club has certainly shifted the deck chairs around Richardson in the off season in coaching staff so we shall see how 2019 unfolds.

Personally, I have zero faith in Richardson. Watching his pressers and members’ messages gives the impression he is about as inspiring as a wet sock. His match day performances seem to me to be one dimensional and unable to respond in real time when we were going down the gurgler. His “if you just park those 10 minutes....” excuses only exacerbated the image of him being clueless, unaccountable and out of his depth.

I should also add my impression of him is strongly influenced by what I’ve been told by a friend who worked with the playing group and Richardson from 2014 - 2016. The reports he gave me about Richardson’s M.O are borne out in our dismal performances this year and by Richardson’s demeanour and media presentation.

So I’m firmly in the camp he should be sacked as soon as possible and that we will go nowhere significant whilst he remains head coach.

[stonecold]

Don't know what coaching is?????

Seriously, you put your qualifications on the table then, I'm quite confident I have you covered in both areas of playing and coaching!!!!!

You have no trust or loyalty in coaches at St.Kilda, think you know better?????

Enough said really!!!!!

Step up then champion, I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously, what are your qualifications?????

Where are yours? Really ? Other than just telling everyone yr an expert and a ruckman and u can fight bla bla bla. So?

I happy to tell you in person, already made that offer, but there's not enough beer in the world for you to muster up that courage!!!!!

Well you certainly can’t demonstrate your knowledge online that’s for sure.

I’m curious though... follow the logic through for me.

Am I more qualified if I coached U9s football?
What if I said I coached state level basketball... more or less qualified?
I’ve provided therapy to an AFL footballer that improved his performance post same... does that make me more qualified?
What if I said I was a VFL umpire?
He about if I hung around the coaching rooms at Sandy during the addresses yes or no.

Draw the line

You maybe qualified on AFL if you've been involved directly!!!!!

What qualifications do you have that prove you can make determinations about qualifications?

Lay them out

Yeah right, there's a few posters on here who know who I am, that's good enough, cause I'm gonna come out and reveal who I am,everyone does that, not!!!!!

There is no doubt in my mind that u have no qualifications and u have never played at any reasonable level. Why? Because u come across as an absolute loser constantly telling everyone how special u are because you are desperately trying to compensate. The internet is the only place u can be somebody. U are possibly the most pathetic person i ve ever come across

About sums you up, always got your finger on the pulse, not!!!!!

Your wrong there beer muscles, nothing new there though!!!!!

Stop tinkering with mum's hotspot!!!!!

[samoht]

Imagine how it would be to not start your response with a personal put down. That would be awesome.

Re the rest of your post, thanks for the debate. Agree with you that we lost a lot of on field leadership, but I don’t buy the argument that it excuses Richardson for our dismal year. I’m interpreting your argument along the same lines as those of Samoht and others who lay pretty much zero accountability at Richardson’s door. It’s all about our players not having enough talent, rather than Richardson being a rubbish coach. If that’s your view, you’re entitled to it, but I disagree.
I personally think that view gives Richardson a way too easy out. “It’s the fault of everyone else around him, but he did the best anyone could have expected in the circumstances.” It’s certainly the view the club has been advocating and we saw in the second half of last year a clear laying of blame at the players’ feet without any accountability whatsoever from Richardson or other senior management. That really stunk in my view.

Yes, development from Steele, Battle, Gresham, Marshall. Some signs there for the future. What of Acres, Dunstan, Billings, Membrey, White, McCartin, Sinclair?

But beyond looking at individual’s development, the way the team played spoke volumes about their level of belief and cohesiveness as a team. Those elements I hold Richardson directly accountable for - and we were absolute rubbish.

You could be right that all the other elements you’ve named are the real key factors in our rubbish year. The club has certainly shifted the deck chairs around Richardson in the off season in coaching staff so we shall see how 2019 unfolds.

Personally, I have zero faith in Richardson. Watching his pressers and members’ messages gives the impression he is about as inspiring as a wet sock. His match day performances seem to me to be one dimensional and unable to respond in real time when we were going down the gurgler. His “if you just park those 10 minutes....” excuses only exacerbated the image of him being clueless, unaccountable and out of his depth.

I should also add my impression of him is strongly influenced by what I’ve been told by a friend who worked with the playing group and Richardson from 2014 - 2016. The reports he gave me about Richardson’s M.O are borne out in our dismal performances this year and by Richardson’s demeanour and media presentation.

So I’m firmly in the camp he should be sacked as soon as possible and that we will go nowhere significant whilst he remains head coach.

Just to correct you ...
I didn't say the coach is unaccountable ... I am just pointing out that there are a lot of other factors at play (including injuries this year), and that "accountability" should also extend to recruiting, and that it's also the players responsibilty to get the most out of themselves.
I've also asked how we can rate and compare our coach with/against other coaches given there are so many variables at play, including the fact that the other coaches are in charge of teams with vastly different levels of talent.
I've also noted that Steele, Roberton, Membrey and now Austin have all vastly improved since crossing to us - so the environment may not be as toxic as some think. Marshall is also coming along well.
And if we are going to rate coaches based on the way they come across in pressers and media presentations -- how would Alan Jeans have rated?
I'm just trying to inject some balance.

[saynta]

You didn’t get it did you?

You didn't!!!!!

Please tell me you are just having a laugh & don’t really believe Richo is a capable head coach?

There’s a reason he was overlooked as head coach for so long & failed many an attempts to gain a head role. He’s a journeyman.

The guy flat out refused to interview for our role & made us beg for his services. Then he has the hide to demand an extension despite not earning one.

Best you have a think about the culture of not only the Collingwood fans but also their players in the era Richo played in & incl that famous game at vic park.

Richo has never had respect for our club & is simply a blow in. Piss him off ffs & get someone in that bleeds for the club.

I don’t need to have played or coached at the highest level to know Richo’s a garbage head coach. He’d be better suited to given the boys a rub down at half time or better yet cooking the snags at Bunnings.