On Borrowed Time - Sorry, Another Richo Thread

[Cairnsman]

I think our recruiting has been good since 2013. I think the List Management has been fine since then.

Since 2013, we've recruited well. The biggest problem with them though, is that they've haven't had a senior group to bring them through.


The crop we've brought to the club since 2013 will be a really good group, when we have a good, solid senior group to bring them through.

Who's been coach during this time? Does Richo have any input into list management?

Clearly the club agree and why the club is on the record as saying we need some leadership and high end talent to enhance the current crop of talent coming through.

It's been very smart by the club not to hit the panic button too early instead they have made some very measured improvements.

Now we just need to have another good trade period this year and hit the pre season.

This time next year Im predicting the club will be lauded for holding it's nerve and acting very professional in it's response to the 2018 result.

[SydneySainter]

I'm not saying Richo is a good coach. What I'm saying is we really, really need to improve our recruiting. Hannebury, Lycett, Menzel ,,,, why are we continuing to look at list cloggers??

You have been saying richo is a good coach over and over and over again.
You refuse to acknowledge how bad he is.

That's actually not what he's been saying at all.

Holy s***, is it so difficult to understand.

What he's saying is that NO COACH could get far with our list.... which is absolutely correct.

Would a better coach get a better result from our list... slightly yes...maybe. But no where near premiership success...

Because ladies and gentlemen....

OUR LIST OF PLAYERS IS MOSTLY F*UCKING GARBAGE!!!!!
Wake the f*** up!!!!!

Let me repeat myself again and again:
Newnes
Weller
Armitage
Geary
Savage
Lonie
Dunstan
Hickey
Longer
Brown

This is our f****** senior group!!!!!
Wake the f*** up!!!!!!!!!! This list is AWFUL!

The Senior coach has been there over 5 years.
He shaped his own list
FFS
It isnt that hard to understand.
A coach who knew what he was doing would have done much better than 33%.
The Cho is suburban standard. Which is probably why he fits in well at St Kilda.
7 years is an absolute disgrace for a bloke on 33% after 111 games. It is flat out disgusting.
It is his game plan. His list. His players. His culture.
It is the Cho playing Weller and Newnes and Longer and Savage and Brown every week. The CHO. Nobody else.

RL had a 4 win season at Freo in his 5th year there (2016). You're only as good as your last gig, so how was he travelling given the Freo fortress and significant home ground advantage?
Freo didn't have anywhere the injuries in 2016 that we've had this year.
So our recruiting has been spot on? I think you're over-rating coaches and what they can achieve or should be achieving.
You can only judge a coach in the context of what he has to work with. Richo was reluctant to play a couple of players - this is true - but his so-called favourites weren't keeping a DeGoey out of the side.
Gresham has played from the word go - was he a favourite from the get-go, or is it because he had some standout qualities as a young player, which the coach rated? Gresham was good to go.
Our recruiting is the area that should be of more concern - yet no-one is discussing it??

I've read countless threads on recruitment.

FWIW, and probably for the 100th time, I think our recruiting has been good since 2013. I think the List Management has been fine since then.

Prior to that, it was foul. I don't blame recruitment either - as the Drafts were the 'compromised' ones, so we weren't really able to do much during that time. I blame the List Maagement strategy to trade players for picks in compromised Drafts though!

The real issue was the lack of young players coming through in the 2009-2011 period. That's where the list problems really lie. As a result, our senior group is Jack Steven, Geary and Armo.

The period where we recruited the Wright's, Templeton's, Curran's, Minchington's, Saunders' etc. was the big failure of recruiting - but as I said, picking heaps of guns with low picks in compromised drafts is not easy!


Since 2013, we've recruited well. The biggest problem with them though, is that they've haven't had a senior group to bring them through.

They haven't a had a Howe, a Sidebottom, a Pendelbury, a Dunn, a Greenwood, a Varcoe, a Goldsack etc. They haven't had a LeCras, a Hurn, a Kennedy, a Schofield to bring them through.


The crop we've brought to the club since 2013 will be a really good group, when we have a good, solid senior group to bring them through.

I don’t know if I agree that our recruitment has been good, but maybe it hasn’t been as bad as some (including myself) have previously suggested, depending on how you look at it.

The biggest bumps for me is the recruitment of Freeman (still cost us a second round pick and we delisted him just when he got his body right) and the 2014 draft. That draft was a train wreck. As we’d just won the wooden spoon and that draft was supposed to be a significant step in our rebuild. Since then, we’ve already delisted Goddard and Paddy could be one concussion away from retirement.

But, looking at our core list as a whole, as a depth-list, I actually think it’s at least okayish. We have quite a few decent depth players.

Add a star player it two, then maybe this list could really gel. Which there in-lies our problem. The club has been saving a war chest for a star recruit or two for a few seasons now and has so far failed to get one. The fact Essendon and even North are ahead of us as destination clubs is really concerning.

The club has tried plan B which is hoping that Billings and Acres will take the next step, become A grade and improve our list through natural attrition. That so far hasn’t happened and that may never happen.

Unless we bring in a few star players, this list will only ever be a good depth-list at best.

[st.byron]

Have any players come out and openly and unreservedly declared their man love for Richo?

If they have, I must have missed it...Su-Su-Sussudio..

Saw Phil Collins live once upon a time....that would be late 80’s. Was epic. Still remember it and him playing that tune.

[rodgerfox]

I don’t know if I agree that our recruitment has been good, but maybe it hasn’t been as bad as some (including myself) have previously suggested, depending on how you look at it.

The biggest bumps for me is the recruitment of Freeman (still cost us a second round pick and we delisted him just when he got his body right) and the 2014 draft. That draft was a train wreck. As we’d just won the wooden spoon and that draft was supposed to be a significant step in our rebuild. Since then, we’ve already delisted Goddard and Paddy could be one concussion away from retirement.

But, looking at our core list as a whole, as a depth-list, I actually think it’s at least okayish. We have quite a few decent depth players.

Add a star player it two, then maybe this list could really gel. Which there in-lies our problem. The club has been saving a war chest for a star recruit or two for a few seasons now and has so far failed to get one. The fact Essendon and even North are ahead of us as destination clubs is really concerning.

The club has tried plan B which is hoping that Billings and Acres will take the next step, become A grade and improve our list through natural attrition. That so far hasn’t happened and that may never happen.

Unless we bring in a few star players, this list will only ever be a good depth-list at best.

I think 2014 was a good year for us.

2017 (Picks 7 & 8):
Clark
Coffield

2016 (Picks 25 & 39):
Ben Long
Battle


2015 (Pick 6, 18 & 40):
Gresham
White
Carlisle

2014 (Pick 1, 21, 22 & 41):
McCartin
Goddard
McKenzie
Lonie
Steele

2013 (Pick 3, 18 &19):
Billings
Dunstan
Acres

Now, if you go back further than that, you'll find out why we suck so bad at the moment. But the last 5 years have been more than decent. Granted, we haven't had a superstar bob up from the pack as yet, but it's certainly not as bad as people make out.
It's the recruitment back in the period from 2009, where the issue lies...

2009 (Pick 32):
Nick Winmar

2010 (Pick 24 & 43):
Cripps (now gone of course)
Sam Crocker

2011 (Picks 25, 35, 37 & 42):
Seb Ross
Markworth
Newnes
Webster

2012 (Picks 24, 25 & 40):
Wright
Spencer White
Murdoch

That's 2 decent players in 4 years!!!

[saintadamski]

2014 was a good year for us?
Steele is the only player there that has had any form of impact.

In fact 2014 was arguably one of the worst years, because of how many high draft picks we had, including number 1... and it's pretty obvious how that one turned out.

[rodgerfox]

2014 was a good year for us?
Steele is the only player there that has had any form of impact.

In fact 2014 was arguably one of the worst years, because of how many high draft picks we had, including number 1... and it's pretty obvious how that one turned out.

High picks?

We had 1, 21 and 22.

Considering we got McCartin, Steele, McKenzie and Lonie from that year, I think it's absolutely a good result.


1 Patrick McCartin Patrick McCartin 35
2 Melbourne Christian Petracca 63
3 Melbourne Angus Brayshaw 58
4 GWS Jarrod Pickett 17
5 Collingwood Jordan De Goey 71
6 GWS Caleb Marchbank 35
7 GWS Paul Ahern 11
8 Gold Coast Peter Wright 49
9 Collingwood Darcy Moore 54
10 Geelong Nakia Cockatoo 34
11 West Coast Liam Duggan 70
12 Richmond Corey Ellis 27
13 Fremantle Lachlan Weller 69
14 Adelaide Jake Lever 67
15 Gold Coast Jarrod Garlett 28
16 North Melbourne Sam Durdin 9
17 Essendon Kyle Langford 47
18 Sydney Isaac Heeney 80
19 Carlton Blaine Boekhorst 25
20 Essendon Jayden Laverde 30
21 St Kilda Hugh Goddard 10
22 St Kilda Daniel McKenzie 34
23 GWS Patrick McKenna 0
24 GWS Jack Steele 58
25 North Melbourne Daniel Nielson 7
26 Western Bulldogs Toby McLean 60
27 Western Bulldogs Lukas Webb 24
28 Carlton Dillon Viojo-Rainbow 0
29 Gold Coast Touk Miller 82
30 Collingwood Brayden Maynard 73


Goddard snapped his achilles, so forget about him obviously, No one comes back that. Bust.

The only 4 that I would say we 'missed out on' compared to the guys we picked (take out Heeney and Moore of course) are Brayshaw, DeGoey, Lever and Maynard. Maybe Toby McLean.

The games played column is crucial to the above list of draftees too. Maynard and DeGoey are in their 70 already, and have played alongside some very solid, experienced players their whole careers.


I agree that we're yet to unearth the A-grader we need from the Draft yet, but our young guys are so far behind the rest in terms of games played that I still believe it's too early to tell on most of them.

[Cairnsman]

I don’t know if I agree that our recruitment has been good, but maybe it hasn’t been as bad as some (including myself) have previously suggested, depending on how you look at it.

The biggest bumps for me is the recruitment of Freeman (still cost us a second round pick and we delisted him just when he got his body right) and the 2014 draft. That draft was a train wreck. As we’d just won the wooden spoon and that draft was supposed to be a significant step in our rebuild. Since then, we’ve already delisted Goddard and Paddy could be one concussion away from retirement.

But, looking at our core list as a whole, as a depth-list, I actually think it’s at least okayish. We have quite a few decent depth players.

Add a star player it two, then maybe this list could really gel. Which there in-lies our problem. The club has been saving a war chest for a star recruit or two for a few seasons now and has so far failed to get one. The fact Essendon and even North are ahead of us as destination clubs is really concerning.

The club has tried plan B which is hoping that Billings and Acres will take the next step, become A grade and improve our list through natural attrition. That so far hasn’t happened and that may never happen.

Unless we bring in a few star players, this list will only ever be a good depth-list at best.

I think 2014 was a good year for us.

2017 (Picks 7 & 8):
Clark
Coffield

2016 (Picks 25 & 39):
Ben Long
Battle


2015 (Pick 6, 18 & 40):
Gresham
White
Carlisle

2014 (Pick 1, 21, 22 & 41):
McCartin
Goddard
McKenzie
Lonie
Steele

2013 (Pick 3, 18 &19):
Billings
Dunstan
Acres

Now, if you go back further than that, you'll find out why we suck so bad at the moment. But the last 5 years have been more than decent. Granted, we haven't had a superstar bob up from the pack as yet, but it's certainly not as bad as people make out.
It's the recruitment back in the period from 2009, where the issue lies...

2009 (Pick 32):
Nick Winmar

2010 (Pick 24 & 43):
Cripps (now gone of course)
Sam Crocker

2011 (Picks 25, 35, 37 & 42):
Seb Ross
Markworth
Newnes
Webster

2012 (Picks 24, 25 & 40):
Wright
Spencer White
Murdoch

That's 2 decent players in 4 years!!!

3 decent/serviceable players

Ross
Newnes
Webster

[SydneySainter]

2014 was a good year for us?
Steele is the only player there that has had any form of impact.

In fact 2014 was arguably one of the worst years, because of how many high draft picks we had, including number 1... and it's pretty obvious how that one turned out.

High picks?

We had 1, 21 and 22.

Considering we got McCartin, Steele, McKenzie and Lonie from that year, I think it's absolutely a good result.


1 Patrick McCartin Patrick McCartin 35
2 Melbourne Christian Petracca 63
3 Melbourne Angus Brayshaw 58
4 GWS Jarrod Pickett 17
5 Collingwood Jordan De Goey 71
6 GWS Caleb Marchbank 35
7 GWS Paul Ahern 11
8 Gold Coast Peter Wright 49
9 Collingwood Darcy Moore 54
10 Geelong Nakia Cockatoo 34
11 West Coast Liam Duggan 70
12 Richmond Corey Ellis 27
13 Fremantle Lachlan Weller 69
14 Adelaide Jake Lever 67
15 Gold Coast Jarrod Garlett 28
16 North Melbourne Sam Durdin 9
17 Essendon Kyle Langford 47
18 Sydney Isaac Heeney 80
19 Carlton Blaine Boekhorst 25
20 Essendon Jayden Laverde 30
21 St Kilda Hugh Goddard 10
22 St Kilda Daniel McKenzie 34
23 GWS Patrick McKenna 0
24 GWS Jack Steele 58
25 North Melbourne Daniel Nielson 7
26 Western Bulldogs Toby McLean 60
27 Western Bulldogs Lukas Webb 24
28 Carlton Dillon Viojo-Rainbow 0
29 Gold Coast Touk Miller 82
30 Collingwood Brayden Maynard 73


Goddard snapped his achilles, so forget about him obviously, No one comes back that. Bust.

The only 4 that I would say we 'missed out on' compared to the guys we picked (take out Heeney and Moore of course) are Brayshaw, DeGoey, Lever and Maynard. Maybe Toby McLean.

The games played column is crucial to the above list of draftees too. Maynard and DeGoey are in their 70 already, and have played alongside some very solid, experienced players their whole careers.


I agree that we're yet to unearth the A-grader we need from the Draft yet, but our young guys are so far behind the rest in terms of games played that I still believe it's too early to tell on most of them.

Sorry, I just can't share your optimism about 2014. It was such an important draft for us and the best we've ended up with is Steele (who we didn't draft, we traded for in 2016).

Pick 1, such an important pick and Paddy may have to retire for the sake of his own health. Hopefully I'm wrong, but the fact that the club made inquiries about Lynch this year also says to me that they're skeptical. An even bigger disaster when you look at who was available in the top 5.

Pick 21, admittedly a fair point, rotten luck and probably not much the club could do about that.

Pick 22, McKenzie, jury still out. Just starting to show signs he could be a serviceable player, maybe even a bit more, but needs to carry those signs of promise into 2019.

As for Lonie, the club was shopping him around last year and re-signed because they didn't get enough interest. Even with his late season form, the club still won't offer him anymore than another one year extension, despite interest from other clubs.

Two okay recruits but overall, still a disappointing draft for mine.

[desertsaint]

Have to disagree about our drafting. Of all our drafting the only players we could say has played to the level we would have hoped for Gresham and Ross. Perhaps add Webster given he was a late pick. No one else. Some show promise, yet to be realised. The last two years are still too early to call. 2014 terrible drafting. set us right back. possibly the worst of the last five years given three picks in the top 22 and the number one pick who isn't in the top 15 player of that draft. if bottom clubs dont get the early picks right they stay down.
Our trading has been much better with players like roberton, brown, membrey, steele, and carlisle all solid contributors, probably add bruce to that list. no idea why that list includes some and not others?

[Scollop]

Have to disagree about our drafting. Of all our drafting the only players we could say has played to the level we would have hoped for Gresham and Ross. Perhaps add Webster given he was a late pick. No one else. Some show promise, yet to be realised. The last two years are still too early to call. 2014 terrible drafting. set us right back. possibly the worst of the last five years given three picks in the top 22 and the number one pick who isn't in the top 15 player of that draft. if bottom clubs dont get the early picks right they stay down.
Our trading has been much better with players like roberton, brown, membrey, steele, and carlisle all solid contributors, probably add bruce to that list. no idea why that list includes some and not others?

Those players that we traded in like Bruce and Steele, Carlisle, Brown, Membrey and Robbo all had their AFL nurturing at senior level at other clubs. Combine this with the fact that some of our young draft picks have stagnated or not developed the way the club expected and that highlights a problem with our coaching and development

[samoht]

I bet you GWS, Freo and Sydney would take all these players back after seeing them go to the next level - at the Saints.
Maybe not Roberton, since his mystery illness.

Steele, Roberton and Membrey all became solid players at St Kilda. I didn't know what to expect from any one of them - they were yet to develop when they came - and I have been pleasantly suprised by all 3.

[SaintPav]

This is no worse than other crap that's posted on here...

[bigred]

Well that doesn't make a lick of sense.

Be a pretty big party on this forum if it happened.

[saintadamski]

2014 was a good year for us?
Steele is the only player there that has had any form of impact.

In fact 2014 was arguably one of the worst years, because of how many high draft picks we had, including number 1... and it's pretty obvious how that one turned out.

High picks?

We had 1, 21 and 22.

Considering we got McCartin, Steele, McKenzie and Lonie from that year, I think it's absolutely a good result.


1 Patrick McCartin Patrick McCartin 35
2 Melbourne Christian Petracca 63
3 Melbourne Angus Brayshaw 58
4 GWS Jarrod Pickett 17
5 Collingwood Jordan De Goey 71
6 GWS Caleb Marchbank 35
7 GWS Paul Ahern 11
8 Gold Coast Peter Wright 49
9 Collingwood Darcy Moore 54
10 Geelong Nakia Cockatoo 34
11 West Coast Liam Duggan 70
12 Richmond Corey Ellis 27
13 Fremantle Lachlan Weller 69
14 Adelaide Jake Lever 67
15 Gold Coast Jarrod Garlett 28
16 North Melbourne Sam Durdin 9
17 Essendon Kyle Langford 47
18 Sydney Isaac Heeney 80
19 Carlton Blaine Boekhorst 25
20 Essendon Jayden Laverde 30
21 St Kilda Hugh Goddard 10
22 St Kilda Daniel McKenzie 34
23 GWS Patrick McKenna 0
24 GWS Jack Steele 58
25 North Melbourne Daniel Nielson 7
26 Western Bulldogs Toby McLean 60
27 Western Bulldogs Lukas Webb 24
28 Carlton Dillon Viojo-Rainbow 0
29 Gold Coast Touk Miller 82
30 Collingwood Brayden Maynard 73


Goddard snapped his achilles, so forget about him obviously, No one comes back that. Bust.

The only 4 that I would say we 'missed out on' compared to the guys we picked (take out Heeney and Moore of course) are Brayshaw, DeGoey, Lever and Maynard. Maybe Toby McLean.

The games played column is crucial to the above list of draftees too. Maynard and DeGoey are in their 70 already, and have played alongside some very solid, experienced players their whole careers.


I agree that we're yet to unearth the A-grader we need from the Draft yet, but our young guys are so far behind the rest in terms of games played that I still believe it's too early to tell on most of them.

"Considering we got McCartin, Steele, McKenzie and Lonie from that year, I think it's absolutely a good result."

Whatever drugs you're on - I want some now!!!

[samoht]

Apart from Steele, Membrey and Roberton taking their game to the next level at the Saints, Logan Austin is another one who's acquited himself nicely and is playing great football for us.
It's not all gloom and doom ... Logan has averaged 19.7 disposals per game at 82.7% disposal efficiency over 2018!
He was only averaging 7.9 possessions per game at Port adelaide in 2016 with 83% game time and only 6.5 possessions per game in 2017 at Port Adelaide with 89% game time. So he's averaging 12 -13 more possessions per game with us and has more than doubled his possessions/game - actually tripled his possessions per game in 2018 compared to 2017.

He came to us already developed as a 22 year old -- but his game has already gone to the next level with us. That's a massive improvement.
I don't know who to attribute the improvement to - maybe to Logan himself, but in any case he has markedly improved since coming to us.

We just need to recruit some A graders now, that's all - and hopefully with less injuries, we'll be bouncing right back.

It's our recruiters who are mostly holding us back (plus injuries). We need a couple of elite A graders.

[Teflon]

This is no worse than other crap that's posted on here...

I think that’s bs
Shame....but I think it’s rubbish