Billy has a Tagger

[The_Dud]

Gawn best on ground my arse. Better than Gresham, Steven, Steele, Armitage and even Viney? Bullsh*t.

EDIT: Sinclair, Carlisle and Brayshaw had better games than Gawn as well.

He only got BOG from both coaches, every football expert reviewing the game, and I’m sure the umps too on Brownlow night. Plus the most DT and SC points by far.

But hey, what would they know

[Viscount Jeremiah]

Hitouts are the most over-rated stat there is - and anyway, Longer lost in the hitout department too.
And Billy was absolutely destroyed around the ground.
Melbourne is in sh1t form (losing their last 3 games), but despite this Gawn had a huge influence on the game (and was clearly BOG) - and had Viney played in the centre all day, the result would have been vastly different.

Swap Longer and Gawn - and we would have been 6 goals further ahead.

Agreed , champion data have done analysis on hit outs and have proved unless its to advantage they have virtually no effect on clearances.

Hit outs to advantage numbers are rarely more than approx 7 per game per ruck man. of those only about 60% ended in a clearance for the advantaged team

[stonecold]

Gawn best on ground my arse. Better than Gresham, Steven, Steele, Armitage and even Viney? Bullsh*t.

EDIT: Sinclair, Carlisle and Brayshaw had better games than Gawn as well.

He only got BOG from both coaches, every football expert reviewing the game, and I’m sure the umps too on Brownlow night. Plus the most DT and SC points by far.

But hey, what would they know

Bit Hypocritical of you to use that argument now!!!!!

Didn't wash when I used it on Hickledik earlier in the season?????

Anyway, with all the latest injuries, we might play both Longer and Hickledik this week!!!!!

[stonecold]

Hitouts are the most over-rated stat there is - and anyway, Longer lost in the hitout department too.
And Billy was absolutely destroyed around the ground.
Melbourne is in sh1t form (losing their last 3 games), but despite this Gawn had a huge influence on the game (and was clearly BOG) - and had Viney played in the centre all day, the result would have been vastly different.

Swap Longer and Gawn - and we would have been 6 goals further ahead.

Swap Longer and Hickledik and we would have lost by 6 goals!!!!!

[samuraisaint]

Hitouts are the most over-rated stat there is - and anyway, Longer lost in the hitout department too.
And Billy was absolutely destroyed around the ground.
Melbourne is in sh1t form (losing their last 3 games), but despite this Gawn had a huge influence on the game (and was clearly BOG) - and had Viney played in the centre all day, the result would have been vastly different.

Swap Longer and Gawn - and we would have been 6 goals further ahead.

Swap Longer and Hickledik and we would have lost by 6 goals!!!!!

Well, we won't find out this week Stoney, because Longer is a monty to stay in, and Hickey will definitely be back in as well. As will Marshall you'd have to say. Josh Bruce - broken leg - season, Jake Carlisle - collapsed lung - 2 weeks, Josh Battle - fractured eye socket - 3 weeks, Nathan Brown - hamstring - 4 weeks. I've been saying we need to play 2 rucks all season, but three might be pushing it! Hopefully we bring in big Hughie Goddard or White again as well. Feel bad for the players, but I hope that Big Al gives some of the younger guys (Marshall and Goddard) an opportunity.
One thing is for sure, we are going to find out a lot about the depth of our side in the next month.
EDIT: Only going in with one ruckman again. Good to see Logan back in. Feel for White. Worried for Goddard.

[skeptic]

Indeed Stoney and Samurai. It was Lazar Vidovic. Not saying Billy is anywhere near as good as Lazar was, but is a similar ruckman.

However, the reason the players gave when Stan asked, was that he stood over the opposition, looked after them (the mids were unanimous in their praise), protected them and made them walk tall.

I cannot believe the view that Billy was flogged by Gawn. Gawn played well as a winger, Billy didn't go with him half the time (was probably not expected to). Gawn got a sh*tload of the ball against Collingwood 2 weeks ago, fat lot of good it did his team.

The bottom line is that our midfield group, Longer, Steele, Armitage and Steven monstered their midfield group (except for a few minutes when Viney went ballastic) and it all started there.

Billy's influence was the sort of influence Big Lazar was regarded for.

The problem with this story is that people could guess that it was Lazar because his actual presence was evident during the game...

What we have here is that we should trust that Longer too has presence that isn't clearly evident to anyone watching, statisticians or apparently his direct opponent.

Look I don't want to come across as though I continually chopping the guys legs out from underneath him... and goodness knows I think he earned his spot ahead of Hickey for now but this overwhelming singing of Billy's praises is bordering on a joke.
It's done nothing on this forum but essentially turn formumites against Billy with the new line being in the absence of any actual markers of a good performance, we should take this new one that we have beaten three of the weaker teams in the comp (though Melbourne is still debatable) when Billy played and he's the difference.

i think the main thing here that continually gets pushed aside is that these apparent intangible qualities that Billy brings to the table... and there's enough smoke to suggest there's at least something, he needs to more directly impact the contest.
Whether that's taking some contested marks, or throwing his weight around, dropping back etc... the other stuff... the trying hard and working hard... you don't get praise for that (or that much), that's minimum expectation.

He needs to do more... the simple fact is that at his current output, he will never be more than a bit player ruck.

[To the top]

Vidovic could actually mark the footy in a contest - dropping back across the defensive lines and allowing P Everitt to play forward

The loss of both of them ahead of the 1997 Finals Series was devastating

[Linton Lodger]

Vidovic could actually mark the footy in a contest - dropping back across the defensive lines and allowing P Everitt to play forward

The loss of both of them ahead of the 1997 Finals Series was devastating

Yep! They'd both have a Premiership medallion if they'd played and I suspect Lazar would've been suspended for the better part of 1998.

I don't think Rehn and Pittman would have ever been the same again !

[sunsaint]

anyhoo back to the OP

Here's hoping Longer does get enticed away from the saints
I can only see it as a win/win
# we will get a first rnd draft pick in compo - obviously his worth
# we will lose a few posters who will follow him to where ever
# and the endless denigration of one of our players will cease

All in all it will be a good result I think

[older saint]

Wow started something i didn't expect here. Right off topic but some have identified the club interested- Not hard looking at needs and what they have.
Would be a second rounder or swap .
I actually hope he stays as better ruckman than Hickey (IMO) and still young enough to develop into a solid ruckman with big body as opposed to the other options we have Marshall , Hickey, Pierce who are all light bodied options , some which appear to lack grunt

[SydneySainter]

Gawn best on ground my arse. Better than Gresham, Steven, Steele, Armitage and even Viney? Bullsh*t.

EDIT: Sinclair, Carlisle and Brayshaw had better games than Gawn as well.

He only got BOG from both coaches, every football expert reviewing the game, and I’m sure the umps too on Brownlow night. Plus the most DT and SC points by far.

But hey, what would they know

Bit Hypocritical of you to use that argument now!!!!!

Didn't wash when I used it on Hickledik earlier in the season?????

Anyway, with all the latest injuries, we might play both Longer and Hickledik this week!!!!!

I don’t recall anyone dismissing the coaches votes. But while we’re on that topic, you yourself constantly argued that as long as Hickey doesn’t get coaches votes but his opponent does, it’s proof he’s ordinary.

I do, however, think the match report bests can be a little overstated, as it’s purely the assessment of one sports journo and some AFL golden boys have been overly flattered by these reports in the past. But, again, as long as Hickey’s opponents featured in these reports, you said it was further proof that Hickey was ordinary. In three of Longer’s last four matches, Longer’s opponents have been named in the bests, yet Longer is yet to get a single mention.

Why does the above apply to Hickey but not Longer? What’s good for the goose!

[Scollop]

After just a couple of games in early 2017 Richo made statements ( "we weren't strong enough in the middle/didn't provide enough of a contest at clearances etc..) which to me implied he preferred Longers style of ruck work rather than Hickey's style. He dropped Hickey which inferred that the statements were aimed at Hickey and I think most people took it that he was criticising Hickey's game. After just 2 frickin games and in light of the significant rule change that meant that 3rd man up was abolished, Richo decided that after 2 games he concluded that Longer was the answer. After years of playing a certain way and after being such a valued prospect in 2016, Richo suddenly stamped Hickey's papers. I don't get that!!

No matter how poorly Longer played, he kept his spot and after Hickey got injured, Longer did not have anyone breathing down his neck. I think because Longer was pathetic in some games Richo did eventually try Lewis Pearce late in the year in 2017. When Goldstein was playing poorly, Brad Scott tried Brayden Preuss and dropped Totty to make a statement. Hickey was tried for one solitary game if I recall correctly and he was quickly dropped again after putting in a poor performance in a losing team. No matter how poorly Billy had played he would only be dropped if he was sore, injured or absolutely cost us the game as he did against Port

One of the main reasons and probably the biggest factor that has saved Longer from being dropped is that Richo is his strongest ally. It is plain and simple and this is the most sensible reason why Longer is preferred to our other ruckmen. Richo is not a mastermind and if by some chance that it is true that Longer is being sought by another club/s then we should thank our lucky stars that Richo has accidently elevated Longers value.