The Reasons re Watters

[satchmo]

I also think that it would be best for the club and best for Scott Watters if some of the main drivers behind his dismissal were kept confidential !!

Is this based on knowledge of these main drivers?

[WellardSaint]

SW is gone. Draw a line in the sand, no, actually build a bridge.
Club will appoint a new coach who will buy into the whole shebang.
Smurf digested bits of it, but spat out the unpalatable stuff.
"Saad was nabbed by ASADA? I'll pick him anyway."
"Don't go to USA with a wannabe gangsta, don't disobey me" then
"Oh, I been banned from radio? Who gives the orders around here? Hello, SEN, sure I can chat"
GT is gone. Ro$$ has left. Alves is playing golf somewhere.
New start. Sun will rise tomorrow.

[Dave McNamara]

Stinger, you can have a go at me I don't mind.
The reasons I took from the articles at the start of this post, which are all accurate,aren't enough justification for you?[/i]

Hi jaxons, I appreciate your view from inside the club.

I also see there being two 'groups', one of which is clearly anti-Cuddles. So I have no trouble seeing how you and Tony could have differing views on what's been happening. Clearly Tony's source is one of the seemingly rare people who can get along with Cuddles. (Maybe Tony is Dermie? )

But just so differing???

Not just some of the of the older blokes players don't like Cuddles, but the young 'uns too??? Didn't the Dud say Cuddles spoke with him more in three weeks than Ro$$y did the whole time he was there? Lenny is on his last legs, we are facing a year near the bottom... why would he play on under a disfunctional coach...? Doesn't make sense.

I really suspect that there's more going on than meets the eye here.

But ultimately, pretty much all the justifications you've linked us to in this thread... Summers and Netters denied them in that mushroom cloud of a presser!!!

So why was Cuddles sacked then?

is he as bad as he'd been painted??? If so, the appointment committee f***ed up monumentally last time! Yet the same people are being lined up to have another go! That's not moving on, that's wandering around in circles.

And if Cuddles is as bad as he's painted out to be... why did our President and our CEO deny most of those reasons you have pointed us towards!!!

jaxons, the capitulation to the Moorabbin council is the only other time I've ever been critical of the club. Knowing the cost to the club of building up that ground, to see it surrendered to the bulldozers was simply heart wrenching - on so many levels.

But the lies and deception from the weasel word peddlers at that presser just infuriate me.

You talk of moving on. Yes, you are correct, but we've just sacked a coach for a heap of reasons that Summalovin' and Nutters have largely dismissed in that insulting presser.

If we move on with this just swept under the carpet, "trust us, we wear suits and speak corporate", then we will repeat our mistakes. (See the same blokes lining up on the latest find a coach panel.)

jaxons, the powers-that-be must stop making us a laughing stock, and come clean. And this can be done without airing all the dirty laundry.

[Dave McNamara]

what??.....that dean bailey walked out on us??????

as stated by that flog sam edmund..........??? all credibilty gone there and then afaic.....

Dean Bailey was never at St Kilda

i know that...i think the flog meant laidley.....just goes to show....

Not sure whether it's the dominoes falling over or standing up again, but I sense some pennies starting to drop. Seems questions are finally being asked.

And you're leading the charge in this thread Sting... must be the lawyer in you coming out.



And what's more, seems you've fixed your colour screen.

[starsign]

Beats me how the angry ant of a clown ever got as far as he did in this AFL circus
Must have pulled the wool over a few eyes before we hired him

[Wayne42]

Beats me how the angry ant of a clown ever got as far as he did in this AFL circus
Must have pulled the wool over a few eyes before we hired him

Mick said Watters was a great coaching prospect, he also said that about Neeld.

Are Collingwood now nervous about Buckley, anyone who served under MM is proving to be a dud..

[whiskers3614]

Beats me how the angry ant of a clown ever got as far as he did in this AFL circus
Must have pulled the wool over a few eyes before we hired him

Mick said Watters was a great coaching prospect, he also said that about Neeld.

Are Collingwood now nervous about Buckley, anyone who served under MM is proving to be a dud..

Funny you should say that.
When I met Malthouse last year he was really interested to know how Watters was perceived by Saints supporters.
Also wasn't the least bit shy in taking credit for advising Watters how to use Riewoldt in 2012.
Most well known people I have met are different(nicer) in real life from how they present on TV.
Malthouse was the exception, big on self promotion and justifying all his actions.
Fairly bristled at any positive mentioned about Buckley and Sheedy!

[karnaby]

That is some list. If there are some elements of truth to every bullet point in jaxons' post then you are left wondering if there are good points. I mean there's not much left.
If it was that bad then clearly the club had to act. Watters is never going to be a senior AFL coach again. He will struggle to get any half decent job as coach. Our new president might not have "baked" him in public and given reasons for his dismissal, choosing to be politically correct and hiding behind "that's confidifential between the club and Scott", but he may as well have baked him. The media, through their sources at the club, have ensured it's all out there. Jaxons is happy to say there it is.
Now I'm left feeling:
1. Glad that the decision was made to sack SW.
2. Annoyed that the president didn't have the balls to say SW was a poor fit for the St.Kilda Football Club he had to go because he....reasons listed.
3. Have concerns about staffers with their own interests at heart who are happy to spread sensitive information about the inner workings of the club if it will help them achieve what they believe is best for the club.
4. Pissed at those who appointed SW in the first place...if we are to believe everything in the OP he is one of the worst AFL appointments ever...up there Blight.
5. Excited...and hoping we can get this coaching appointment right.

Agree with this but would add the following:
6. Leadership is still an issue in my opinion as Scott was doing a lot of what older style coaches did as the years with increased media attention increased. There are still elements of this seen through the comments recently by Dermett Breton, reluctance of senior coaches to take on the Director of footy roles (Malthouse is s prime example).
7. The new appointment need not be a senior coach (discussed in recent past post) as they may all pass the recruitment hoops of the club, however, many of these may still have history working in a senior coach ran environment. Its interesting to see Collingwood's past methodology here.
8. The new appointment process must have in built safeguards to individuals egos. By this I mean role boundaries must be clear and KPI's in this regard reviewed until confidence is installed in the function of the role. Watch Rob Harvey for change in his attitude since being at Carlton and Collingwood.
9. Lastly Management. Based on Planning, Organising, Leading and Controlling. This needs to step up to ensure no repeat of failures. Coaches cant be replaced so regularly without suspicion of what's going on above. Dermott was partly correct in his recently analogy here. Rightly or wrongly, St. Kilda has a reputation to resolve again.. Clarity of strategy plans, boundaries and expectations are needed with a disciplined management approach to ensure alignment of all club functions occurs. Then expect success without continual media distraction. Start with some openness to the members on key points and decisions (we don't need to know the details).

I agree with pretty much al of the above points but I do think that kalsaint has really nailed it with reference to issues related to a coach needing to fit in (& be able to fit in) with newer management structures.

[Fluttz]

I think some people need to sit back and, grab some fresh air and have a look at the way they are conducting themselves on this forum.

For someone to make things personal, like what has gone on in this thread is a disgrace. At the end of the day this is a fan forum and it is is full of St.Kilda supporters' opinions. Opinions are just peoples thoughts, you don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it, but everyone is entitled to it.

I love the St.Kilda Football Club, and as I am getting older, I find myself more and more one eyed! But reading what some people are writing on this forum almost makes me embarrassed to be a St.Kilda supporter.

I understand that we have had a 'culture' of sacking coaches, a 'culture' that obviously has been poor for quite a while and needs to be changed, but getting on here and slagging off anyone and anything is a reflection that the 'culture' of our supporters isn't much better.

I don't like or agree with alot of what the St.K.F.C has done over the years, but at the end of the day they are my club and I will always support them no matter what.

I hope people have the decency to have a think about what they post before they post it.

Go Saints.

[Dr Spaceman]

Well said Fluttz.

[saintspremiers]

Well said Fluttz.

Where is your sense of fun Spacey & Fluttzy?

[stinger]

I think a lot of what "Hasn't been reported/posted has formed part of Scott Watters settlement. The club won't bag him and won't pay him scenario. I see that jaxons has been BOTH first and correct on a number of issues and has been up front and honest with what he/she has posted on here.

I also think that it would be best for the club and best for Scott Watters if some of the main drivers behind his dismissal were kept confidential !!

go along with your second bit......as far as i'm aware jaxons was first with scott's sacking and mcevoy being traded, and maybe longer....ralph was first with the other bits

[stinger]

Stinger, you can have a go at me I don't mind.
The reasons I took from the articles at the start of this post, which are all accurate,aren't enough justification for you?[/i]

Hi jaxons, I appreciate your view from inside the club.

I also see there being two 'groups', one of which is clearly anti-Cuddles. So I have no trouble seeing how you and Tony could have differing views on what's been happening. Clearly Tony's source is one of the seemingly rare people who can get along with Cuddles. (Maybe Tony is Dermie? )

But just so differing???

Not just some of the of the older blokes players don't like Cuddles, but the young 'uns too??? Didn't the Dud say Cuddles spoke with him more in three weeks than Ro$$y did the whole time he was there? Lenny is on his last legs, we are facing a year near the bottom... why would he play on under a disfunctional coach...? Doesn't make sense.

I really suspect that there's more going on than meets the eye here.

But ultimately, pretty much all the justifications you've linked us to in this thread... Summers and Netters denied them in that mushroom cloud of a presser!!!

So why was Cuddles sacked then?

is he as bad as he'd been painted??? If so, the appointment committee f***ed up monumentally last time! Yet the same people are being lined up to have another go! That's not moving on, that's wandering around in circles.

And if Cuddles is as bad as he's painted out to be... why did our President and our CEO deny most of those reasons you have pointed us towards!!!

jaxons, the capitulation to the Moorabbin council is the only other time I've ever been critical of the club. Knowing the cost to the club of building up that ground, to see it surrendered to the bulldozers was simply heart wrenching - on so many levels.

But the lies and deception from the weasel word peddlers at that presser just infuriate me.

You talk of moving on. Yes, you are correct, but we've just sacked a coach for a heap of reasons that Summalovin' and Nutters have largely dismissed in that insulting presser.

If we move on with this just swept under the carpet, "trust us, we wear suits and speak corporate", then we will repeat our mistakes. (See the same blokes lining up on the latest find a coach panel.)

jaxons, the powers-that-be must stop making us a laughing stock, and come clean. And this can be done without airing all the dirty laundry.

good post dave.....you and i are on the same page on this issue....

[stinger]

Not sure whether it's the dominoes falling over or standing up again, but I sense some pennies starting to drop. Seems questions are finally being asked.

And you're leading the charge in this thread Sting... must be the lawyer in you coming out.



And what's more, seems you've fixed your colour screen.

FFS Dave. Don't encourage him. We have a guy, or girl, coming on here who clearly has knowledge of what's happening at the club we love and various posters only want to tear him down. He's been spot-on every single time. And I didn't read any of it in the papers before I read it on here.

i did...well on line before the papers came out......me thinks jaxons is a SEN employee....getting his gossip from player/managers at the station...or someone like that.....jaxons states that all the reasons given in yesterdays sun and age by the various writers were the reasons that scott was sacked...that clearly is untrue......as dave pointed out above, even the club has stated that.....


yep...he has been spot on with some of his predictions....but as someone else correctly pointed out , even a broken clock is right twice a day.....

[stinger]

Beats me how the angry ant of a clown ever got as far as he did in this AFL circus
Must have pulled the wool over a few eyes before we hired him

Mick said Watters was a great coaching prospect, he also said that about Neeld.

Are Collingwood now nervous about Buckley, anyone who served under MM is proving to be a dud..

maybe it's mick's way of rooting the opposition....

[stinger]

Beats me how the angry ant of a clown ever got as far as he did in this AFL circus
Must have pulled the wool over a few eyes before we hired him

Mick said Watters was a great coaching prospect, he also said that about Neeld.

Are Collingwood now nervous about Buckley, anyone who served under MM is proving to be a dud..

Funny you should say that.
When I met Malthouse last year he was really interested to know how Watters was perceived by Saints supporters.
Also wasn't the least bit shy in taking credit for advising Watters how to use Riewoldt in 2012.
Most well known people I have met are different(nicer) in real life from how they present on TV.
Malthouse was the exception, big on self promotion and justifying all his actions.
Fairly bristled at any positive mentioned about Buckley and Sheedy!

i found sheedy the same , got really pissed off when i mentioned him letting go o'brien who was starring with the saints at the time....he really despised the saints......still does....

[SaintPav]

but at the end of the day they are my club and I will always support them no matter what.

It is not our club and that is the point.

I'm afraid It's is all a one way street.

Give us your time and money, sign up to be members etc but trust us and don't ask too many questions.

When we make big decisions we won't involve you either. We will also not explain what went wrong when he stuff up time and time again.

Sign here.

[stinger]

but at the end of the day they are my club and I will always support them no matter what.

It is not our club and that is the point.

I'm afraid It's is all a one way street.

Give us your time and money, sign up to be members etc but trust us and don't ask too many questions.

When we make big decisions we won't involve you either. We will also not explain what went wrong when he stuff up time and time again.

Sign here.

pretty much sums up the club's attitude to it's (us) members....

...i'd gotten over the dissapointment of losing dal and big mac, had just received all the family's renewal notices in the mail....was starting to look forward and not back.....with some hope for the future...then this bombshell......6 membership renewals now on hold......

[Spinner]

Rea sme here else.... Was the 1st of November critical to the sacking?

When does the AFL reporting period close? Write off under next years finances?

[magnifisaint]

Rea sme here else.... Was the 1st of November critical to the sacking?

When does the AFL reporting period close? Write off under next years finances?

It all makes sense. Watters payout goes into next years books (2014) so our loss doesn't look too horrific. Read somewhere on this site that we lost a few mill in 2013.

[Spinner]

Rea sme here else.... Was the 1st of November critical to the sacking?

When does the AFL reporting period close? Write off under next years finances?

It all makes sense. Watters payout goes into next years books (2014) so our loss doesn't look too horrific. Read somewhere on this site that we lost a few mill in 2013.

Geez this is probably stock standard - but the club in every facet of media has become very strategic and to a degree cunning.

With the release of stories though media, to the timing of announcements, to now the timing of sackings. I've definitely noticed an upgrade in the finesse.

Can bring great advantage - but can also become misleading, untrusting and lacks transparency. Makes me question things more.

[Spinner]

Rea sme here else.... Was the 1st of November critical to the sacking?

When does the AFL reporting period close? Write off under next years finances?

It all makes sense. Watters payout goes into next years books (2014) so our loss doesn't look too horrific. Read somewhere on this site that we lost a few mill in 2013.

Wow. Thanks!

[stinger]

back on topic...


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/w ... 2wtor.html

'Scott Watters' sacking as St Kilda coach came to him as a ''shock'' and the reasons for it a ''mystery'', says his management. All he knows is what he was told by departing chief executive Michael Nettlefold, that it was not because of his coaching.

Watters' handlers are aggrieved that the timing of his axing by the Saints has left him with little prospect of re-employment in the football industry in time for next season, as most clubs have finalised their staffs. Watters was spending this weekend on a mini-holiday in country Victoria while considering his options. One is to return to study.

On Saturday, a day after Watters' hasty exit, confusion still reigned. Fans responded on talkback radio and social media. Reportedly, Watters was assured by the Saints at a meeting three weeks ago that he was their ''long-term coach''.




...mystery to us too mate....and i'm not buying any of the rehashed rubbish that jaxons has simply reposted from various articles.....

[stinger]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... 2wtos.html


"The culture surrounding St Kilda wouldn't need to be mentioned. Its strength would be a given, the cliche about nothing succeeding like success never more apt.

Instead, the Saints' albeit narrow failure to reap the game's ultimate reward appears to have been the catalyst, not for the first time, to turn incredible frustration to impatience, impertinence, selfishness and a whole host of other negative forces, as if all the club's demons temporarily put to rest have been awakened once more.

That's not just the view from the outside. ''It's a cultural thing, and people hate that word, but I'm telling you I've had a long association with the St Kilda footy club that dates back to 1974,'' former coach Grant Thomas told the AFL website on Friday.

''I think I understand the place as well as anyone and we make these decisions on a monotonously regular basis and we become the laughing stock. We've either made poor decisions in terminations or poor decisions in appointments. All I will say is that St Kilda tends to make more of these [poor] decisions than most other elite AFL clubs.''


...still don't know any real reason scott was sacked ffs....

[dragit]

What I don't get is that people come here to chat & hear a little inside info... Then as soon as anyone mentions they have contact with a current player they are rubbished for saying so.

I'm guessing there are plenty of posters that have contact with players, take it or leave it people...