What I reckon about 2014...

[plugger66]

Its only a guess but im betting that most senior players will play 22 games baring injury. Apart from a CJ type who out of the seniors players is going to play reserves footy?

Not trying to be argumentative but I cant really imagine a backline with

Gwilt Fisher Dempster Gilbert Geary + only 1 other

What is the point of that?

I think 2014 will be all about development. Playing that backline would be a step backwards.
It could only possibly happen if Gilbo goes to a wing, Geary goes to the midfield and/or Fisher goes to GWS.

So if we keep all of them you dont think they will play if available? Of course they will. 100%. Otherwise they would just get rid of them either by trading or not giving them another contract. We will play nearly our best side all year but injuries will mean plenty of young kids will get a chance.

[Con Gorozidis]

Its only a guess but im betting that most senior players will play 22 games baring injury. Apart from a CJ type who out of the seniors players is going to play reserves footy?

Not trying to be argumentative but I cant really imagine a backline with

Gwilt Fisher Dempster Gilbert Geary + only 1 other

What is the point of that?

I think 2014 will be all about development. Playing that backline would be a step backwards.
It could only possibly happen if Gilbo goes to a wing, Geary goes to the midfield and/or Fisher goes to GWS.

So if we keep all of them you dont think they will play if available? Of course they will. 100%. Otherwise they would just get rid of them either by trading or not giving them another contract. We will play nearly our best side all year but injuries will mean plenty of young kids will get a chance.

On the very small chance they are all available then 100% they wont all play.
I dont think the coach is going to field a team in 2014 without a single one of Ross Webster Wright Newnes Saunders Minchington Siposs Markworth, pick 3.

Unless we are still trying to win that 2010 GF?
Maybe if we send out the same side over and over again it will change the result?

Imagine the team meeting 'look sorry guys - everyone under 22 is going back to the VFL while we try and see if we can win the 2010 grand final'.

If we played a side full of senior players we truly would deservedly be the laughing stock of the AFL.

[plugger66]

Not trying to be argumentative but I cant really imagine a backline with

Gwilt Fisher Dempster Gilbert Geary + only 1 other

What is the point of that?

I think 2014 will be all about development. Playing that backline would be a step backwards.
It could only possibly happen if Gilbo goes to a wing, Geary goes to the midfield and/or Fisher goes to GWS.

So if we keep all of them you dont think they will play if available? Of course they will. 100%. Otherwise they would just get rid of them either by trading or not giving them another contract. We will play nearly our best side all year but injuries will mean plenty of young kids will get a chance.

On the very small chance they are all available then 100% they wont all play.
I dont think the coach is going to field a team in 2014 without a single one of Ross Webster Wright Newnes Saunders Minchington Siposs Markworth, pick 3.

Unless we are still trying to win that 2010 GF?
Maybe if we send out the same side over and over again it will change the result?

Imagine the team meeting 'look sorry guys - everyone under 22 is going back to the VFL while we try and see if we can win the 2010 grand final'.

If we played a side full of senior players we truly would deservedly be the laughing stock of the AFL.

Or imagine the team meeting saying thanks for your service lenny and Chips but we arent playing you today even though you both got brownlow votes last week. There will be enough injuries and players out of form to make sure older guys play if they deserve it. Fantasy land to suggest otherwise.

[Con Gorozidis]

Or imagine the team meeting saying thanks for your service lenny and Chips but we arent playing you today even though you both got brownlow votes last week. There will be enough injuries and players out of form to make sure older guys play if they deserve it. Fantasy land to suggest otherwise.

Fantasy land if you think they will all deserve selection and will be all in top 2010 form and getting Brownlow votes.

[plugger66]

Or imagine the team meeting saying thanks for your service lenny and Chips but we arent playing you today even though you both got brownlow votes last week. There will be enough injuries and players out of form to make sure older guys play if they deserve it. Fantasy land to suggest otherwise.

Youre in fantasy land if you think we will ever play a side full of those 2010 senior players again.
Im embarrassed for you.
Firstly even if they are injury free they wont all be in good form.

Gwilt was miles off the pace, Dempster is too slow. Lenny too slow. Chips hasnt touched the ball in 2 years.

So yes in your fantasy land where they are all not injured and all still star players - then they might all play.

But that would be like living in 2010 wouldnt it.

I'm happy to predict zero Brownlow votes for Chips and Lenny for the 2014 season.

Ill give you the tip - some of those senior players will be in poor enough form to justify dropping them.

You do understand I said they wont play if out of form. Maybe you are just failing to grasp the English language. If you honestly Lenny, Chips and dempster will play in the seconds then maybe its time to have a year off. maybe they wont be fit enough or weigh enough because of last years fitness coach. Have no idea about the brownlow votes. means jack but maybe to you it means something.

[Con Gorozidis]

Sorry Dylan - sure youre one of our best players - but Chips was awesome in 09 and is ex AA (hes also 'mates' with plugger) so he gets to play as long as he likes. No matter he hasnt touched the ball in 3 years.
Plus youre under 24 anyway so you have plenty of time and these guys all deserve tribute games every week for the fans to talk about the times when we almost won a flag in 09!

[plugger66]

Sorry Dylan - sure youre one of our best players - but Chips was awesome in 09 and is ex AA (hes also 'mates' with plugger) so he gets to play as long as he likes. No matter he hasnt touched the ball in 3 years.

As I said fantasy land. Why would we keep guys who were AA but probably wont play this year? maybe its disneyland. Nice to get personal again because you cant come up wwith something at least remotely sensible. Hilarious.

[Con Gorozidis]

Sorry Dylan - sure youre one of our best players - but Chips was awesome in 09 and is ex AA (hes also 'mates' with plugger) so he gets to play as long as he likes. No matter he hasnt touched the ball in 3 years.

As I said fantasy land. Why would we keep guys who were AA but probably wont play this year? maybe its disneyland. Nice to get personal again because you cant come up with something at least remotely sensible. Hilarious.

I'm truly embarrased for you.
If none of them are injured (10% chance) and IF they are all in good form (0% chance) then yes you are right - in that non existent and impossible word of time travel they will all play.
For starters we 'kept' them because they are contracted and for back up.

Apart from the true stars - Roo, Dal, Joey - the youngsters will be first picked.

Dempster and Gwilt will see some VFL time.

[Con Gorozidis]

Sorry Dylan - sure youre one of our best players - but Chips was awesome in 09 and is ex AA (hes also 'mates' with plugger) so he gets to play as long as he likes. No matter he hasnt touched the ball in 3 years.

As I said fantasy land. Why would we keep guys who were AA but probably wont play this year? maybe its disneyland. Nice to get personal again because you cant come up with something at least remotely sensible. Hilarious.

I'm truly embarrased for you.
Why did we keep the Blake last year?
If none of them are injured (10% chance) and IF they are all in good form (0% chance) then yes you are right - in that non existent and impossible world of time travel they will all play. So well done pluggs for being 5 years old.

For starters we 'kept' them because they are contracted and for back up. Some of them signed contracts when we were doing well. But the dynamic has changed dramatically since then. We are now in 100% re-build (yes in case you missed it we finished 3rd bottom).

Apart from the true stars - Roo, Dal, Joey - the youngsters will be first picked.

Dempster and Gwilt will see some VFL time.

Do you honestly think the coaches first choice would be to pick the 2010 side ?
Do you honestly think all the senior players will maintain form to be best 22?
If these old guys are as good as you seem to think why did we finish 3rd bottom?
Do you think our priority is to think we can win the flag in 2014 or to build a new side that can win a flag in the future?

[plugger66]

Sorry Dylan - sure youre one of our best players - but Chips was awesome in 09 and is ex AA (hes also 'mates' with plugger) so he gets to play as long as he likes. No matter he hasnt touched the ball in 3 years.

As I said fantasy land. Why would we keep guys who were AA but probably wont play this year? maybe its disneyland. Nice to get personal again because you cant come up with something at least remotely sensible. Hilarious.

I'm truly embarrased for you.
If none of them are injured (10% chance) and IF they are all in good form (0% chance) then yes you are right - in that non existent and impossible word of time travel they will all play.
For starters we 'kept' them because they are contracted and for back up.

Apart from the true stars - Roo, Dal, Joey - the youngsters will be first picked.

Dempster and Gwilt will see some VFL time.

Yes you are right. 0% chance for ex AA players. Con i know how you work. players completely lose form as soon as soon as you get sick of them. Older players will be picked on form. The most hilarious thing you said is apart from the true stars and you didnt include Lenny and Chips. You seriously get bored of stars very quicly. Its hilarious.

To prove how stupid your idea is then why did CJ basically play every game this year. let me guess. This year is different because it will weaken my arguement to say otherwise.

[Con Gorozidis]

Sorry Dylan - sure youre one of our best players - but Chips was awesome in 09 and is ex AA (hes also 'mates' with plugger) so he gets to play as long as he likes. No matter he hasnt touched the ball in 3 years.

As I said fantasy land. Why would we keep guys who were AA but probably wont play this year? maybe its disneyland. Nice to get personal again because you cant come up wwith something at least remotely sensible. Hilarious.

Very strong chance Dempster and Chips (both AA) will see VFL time. Gwilt almost certainly.
Also a very strong chance Chips will be moved on so we dont have to put him in the VFL.

Anyway Im sure you have talked it through with him. Weighed it all up seeing you are so tight.

[bergholt]

Do you honestly think the coaches first choice would be to pick the 2010 side ?
Do you honestly think all the senior players will maintain form to be best 22?
If these old guys are as good as you seem to think why did we finish 3rd bottom?
Do you think our priority is to think we can win the flag in 2014 or to build a new side that can win a flag in the future?

Con, I think he's saying that they won't all play every week, but that they won't play VFL because the club will just say they're injured and that's why they're not playing.

[Con Gorozidis]

Do you honestly think the coaches first choice would be to pick the 2010 side ?
Do you honestly think all the senior players will maintain form to be best 22?
If these old guys are as good as you seem to think why did we finish 3rd bottom?
Do you think our priority is to think we can win the flag in 2014 or to build a new side that can win a flag in the future?

Con, I think he's saying that they won't all play every week, but that they won't play VFL because the club will just say they're injured and that's why they're not playing.

No he is saying all things being equal (no injuries)- the first selected side would be a side full of players over 23yo.

This has to be what hes saying because we have 22 guys over 23 on the list.

He is saying not a single under 23 is good enough to make the full side.

And more than that - he is saying the coaching staff would choose to elect to go with a fully senior side (not a single player under 23) if they have that option available to them.

Thats exactly what hes saying
And Im calling bulls*** on it.

[dragit]

Interesting discussion friends…

Who are the locks, for every game if available (fit)?

Def
Geary, Fisher, Dempster, Gilbert, Roberton

Mid
Montagna, Hayes, NDS, Steven, Armitage, Pick #3

Fwd
Riewoldt, Schneider

I guess Hickey suddenly becomes a lock?

We will be desperate to get more experience into
Ross, Newnes, Wright, Lee, Markworth, Stanley

And I think these guys will take precedence over
Jones, Ray, Gwilt, Simpkin,

Siposs, Maister, TDL, Saad, Milera, Murdoch, Saunders, Dunell, Webster, White… these guys will need to tear s*** up in the VFL to get games IMO… or we get a lot of injuries

[plugger66]

Do you honestly think the coaches first choice would be to pick the 2010 side ?
Do you honestly think all the senior players will maintain form to be best 22?
If these old guys are as good as you seem to think why did we finish 3rd bottom?
Do you think our priority is to think we can win the flag in 2014 or to build a new side that can win a flag in the future?

Con, I think he's saying that they won't all play every week, but that they won't play VFL because the club will just say they're injured and that's why they're not playing.

No he is saying all things being equal (no injuries)- the first selected side would be a side full of players over 23yo.

This has to be what hes saying because we have 22 guys over 23 on the list.

He is saying not a single under 23 is good enough to make the full side.

And more than that - he is saying the coaching staff would choose to elect to go with a fully senior side (not a single player under 23) if they have that option available to them.

Thats exactly what hes saying
And Im calling bulls*** on it.

I think you actually have no idea what Im saying. Its quite simple so you should understand. guys like lenny, Chips and Dal, if they are with us which I doubt, Joey and dempster will play unless injured, They are all ex AA players and still have great form baring injury over the last couple of years. Players like CJ and Jimmy will play if clearly better than other players but if its close to level will not play ahead of others. A perfect example of this is Milne. Plenty of FP players but who out of all of them played every game when available. Just in case you forgot it was Milne not TDL, Not Saad, Not Milera, not Minchington and not Greg Packham.

[Con Gorozidis]

Yes you are right. 0% chance for ex AA players. Con i know how you work. players completely lose form as soon as soon as you get sick of them. Older players will be picked on form. The most hilarious thing you said is apart from the true stars and you didnt include Lenny and Chips. You seriously get bored of stars very quicly. Its hilarious.

To prove how stupid your idea is then why did CJ basically play every game this year. let me guess. This year is different because it will weaken my arguement to say otherwise.

Simple CJ finished 8th in the b and f - so form kept him alive.

Where did Chips, Lenny, Gwilt and Dempster finish?
Form will not keep all of these guys alive.
Thats 100% what Im saying.
Youre living in a fantasy of you think all of Chips, Lenny, Dempster and Gwilt will all keep up their form to be top 22.
At least one of them - but probably more and possibly all wont be up to it.

On top of that - you are crazy if you the coaching staff, board, pelchen, ceo will allow the coach to keep picking the 2010 side.
regardless of form. Development will be the priority.
Im embarrased for you that you cant understand that.
There is always a case - at every club - when you finish bottom - some older guys even when best 22 are sacrificed and sent to the VFL.
This has happened at every club since ever.
Why you think it wont happen at ours as embarrassing for you.
Older fringe players always get sacrificed for younger players when the future and development takes prioity over the present/past.
If I have to explain how that works then dont reply because you are too dense to converse with.

[plugger66]

Now its one. Seriously its like talking to my cat.

[Con Gorozidis]

Now its one. Seriously its like talking to my cat.

Seriously plugger - you are tick as a plank if you dont understand best 22 older fringe players will be sacrificed. No dount they would have already had these discussions. Lenny wont play VFL but he will only be required to play 10 times. Some games he will just sit out.
Other senior guys will be forced to play VFL.

Once again bookmark and lets see what happens.

You really think Pelchen will allow a 2010 side to run out there and youngsters development wont be fast tracked?

I know you think you are 'loyal to your old mates' but its humiliating for you.

[plugger66]

Now its one. Seriously its like talking to my cat.

Seriously plugger - you are tick as a plank if you dont understand best 22 older fringe players will be sacrificed.

Once again bookmark and lets see what happens.

You really think Pelchen will allow a 2010 side to run out there and youngsters development wont be fast tracked?

I know you think you are 'loyal to your old mates' but its humiliating for you.

Pelchan? What are you on about. It has nothing to do with him. How do you explain. Milne, CJ, Gwilt when fit and basically every other older player bar Blake and Kosi plying every single game this year when availabe? Kosi and Blake form last year suggested they wouldnt play much this year but still started in the seniors but of course this year is different. No idea what old mates means. Lawyer. s*** yer.

[Con Gorozidis]

'Bar Blake and Kosi' - precisely.

You already concede some senior players werent first choicers in 2013?

So you have already watered down your argument that 'all senior players will be first choicers'

Now suddenly its 'all bar x & y'

2014 will be the same again. A couple of ex first choicer will no longer be first choicers.

FACT.

[Con Gorozidis]

The Pelch is in the house and the broom is in the room.
Whether you like it or not plugger.
2010 is over. History. Past. Gone.
As it should be.

[groupie1]

just my opinions.
i wasnt having a go.
my crystal ball is as smoky as the next guys.
Seany D turns 30 this january.
just reckon hes lost a yard of pace. when he was an AA he was really good at shutting down small fwds and then zoning off to take his marks.
He was never good on the real talls.
So I reckon hes not quite the player he was.

Siposs Stanley and Hickey - well i feel confident at least one of these three will come out and blitz it next year . No idea which one though. But they are at the right age now.

Yeah, I know you weren't having a go, man. I was interested in your thoughts.

Righteo. Dempster is older than I thought he was, then. I felt this year he was hamstrung by injuries, and was looking forward to see him return fully fit next year, alongside some taller colleagues. I also thought, as you point out, the games he did play in 2013 he was playing a bit out of his best role - playing too tall. So I was hoping with a freer position, he'd be able to use his foot skills and run a bit more.

But he's three years older than I thought he was, so you may be on the money.

[plugger66]

'Bar Blake and Kosi' - precisely.

You already concede some senior players werent first choicers in 2013?

So you have already watered down your argument that 'all senior players will be first choicers'

Now suddenly its 'all bar x & y'

2014 will be the same again. A couple of ex first choicer will no longer be first choicers.

FACT.

Con at the start i said most older players will play seniors and used CJ as an example of a player who may not. You then said only 3 will play every game bar injury and didnt include Dempster, lenny or Fish. if all those are at the club next year they will play every game bar injury. Its that simple. it happened this year so why all of a sudden wont it happen next year? You completely failed to acknowledge my point about Milne because it was to hard for you to come up with any logical reason why he played every single game when available. We were forced to contract Kosi this year otherwise he wouldnt have even been on the list but he still played early in the year.

[starsign]

Its only a guess but im betting that most senior players will play 22 games baring injury. Apart from a CJ type who out of the seniors players is going to play reserves footy?

Not trying to be argumentative but I cant really imagine a backline with

Gwilt Fisher Dempster Gilbert Geary + only 1 other

What is the point of that?

I think 2014 will be all about development. Playing that backline would be a step backwards.
It could only possibly happen if Gilbo goes to a wing, Geary goes to the midfield and/or Fisher goes to GWS.

And ray...

Geary Fisher Gwilt
Gilbert Dempster Simpkin
Montagna Hayes Ray
Schnieder Riewoldt Armitage
Pick 3 Maister Lee

Hickey Jones Steven

Roberton Savage Curren sub Milera


Not really my idea of fast tacking a rebuild, I guess that's why they are trying move a couple more 30 year olds on.

Agreed, and praying for an injury free year is well and good , but when you look at this lineup you can extend dreams of flag contention for a few more years unless there's plenty of "resting" at selection each week

[starsign]

Second thoughts on that lineup... If we could maybe trade Curran, Milera and a couple of other young blokes we've got clogging our list for Goddard and Ball we can give it a real tilt this season!