Eight years of pain coming ...

[aaron82]

Devilhead is pretty much on the money. We need to recruit plenty of midfielders over the next few seasons.
As much as it hurts watching us get pantsed by teams that we have flogged on a consistent basis over the past ten years ie: Richmond, I'm happy
with the direction we are heading. Watters is playing the young players and giving them roles that at the minute they are not physically up to matching it with the best
players.

Those players, Newnes, Ross, Webster, Murdoch, Saunders, Wright are getting an invaluable insight into what they need to do to improve their games.
We will be a much better team when those blokes are at 70+ games. Don't forget Ablett junior took 107 games to get his first 30+ disposal game.

I'd much rather be where we are than say a North Melbourne who I believe are only going to be finishing at best 4-5 in the next 5 seasons. They will most likely be in that middle tier of teams.

As long as we draft smart and find a couple of quality midfielders we will be on the right path. I also would take a preference of picking a Victorian player as opposed to a WA or SA player with our first pick as I don't want the Cripps style go home factor to come into play.

I have a feeling Pelchen will unearth a couple of gems with our first 2 picks later this year.

[BigMart]

Midfielders are a dime a dozen..... 75% of the players on AFL lists are mids but the most important players on lists are a very different ratio

Harder to find a good big man.... But you need them to structure a team around

[saintspremiers]

Midfielders are a dime a dozen..... 75% of the players on AFL lists are mids but the most important players on lists are a very different ratio

Harder to find a good big man.... But you need them to structure a team around

ie. who replaces Roo when he retires end of 2015?

[Spud]

I dont get how that can happen in 2015. GC and GWS have had a huge number of picks and one has gone backwards in its second year and the other is still a year or 2 off finals. They have had many top 10 picks. We have had none and wont till this year and it will only be one top 10 pick. We also lose nearly all our previous AA players by 2015 and they will be replaced by only Steven, Ben and Matbe Armo has high end B graders. The kids who are playing now will have 50 games under their belt but none are top 10 picks which suggest we may fluke one or at the most 2 A graders by 2015. I cant see any side imprving with only 2 A graders and maybe 3 or 4 B graders and then the rest just kids. We are in for a few years of Pain IMO and hopefully our so called supporters hang in there.

So we are only going to be drafting? No free agents or trades? Luke Ball went to Collingwood for pick 30 in the draft, I am sure we can manufacture similar deals, or simply free agent recruiting when we have struck a front-ended deal no-one else can match for a poor lost Victorian boy wanting to come home, ala Dylan Roberton........

Exactly! People are taking a very myopic view. We are already looking for a key back like Brown and Watters has said we will be looking for and A Grade midfielder from another club ( though admittedly we need at least one more mature mid to beef up our socks). Drafting isn't the be all and end all. Improvement will take 2-3 years but this 5-7 is fanciful. As others have pointed out Port is a prime example.

[dragit]

Port are a prime example of having half a dozen top ten draft picks and using them well... Not bringing in a Full back that can't get a regular game at another club.

[Richter]

There's one Riewoldt to replace but the midfield will lose Hayes, Dal Santo, Montagna... having already lost Goddard last year. Hence assuming we finish bottom 3 2013-15 I would like to see us doing the following...

2 top 5 picks on mids
1 top 5 pick on a potential CHF - Boyd if he falls to us this year (he won't)... apparently Hugh Goddard (cousin) is a potential high draftee next year

2 early second rounders on mids
1 early seconder to secure a 20-something year old backman

[Spud]

Port are a prime example of having half a dozen top ten draft picks and using them well... Not bringing in a Full back that can't get a regular game at another club.

We will be getting those top ten draft picks over the next few years. We don't need a superstar fullback to fill the role but someone who will enhance our backline. One of the reasons we have been defensively poor this year is that we have been monstered by big opposition forwards ala Richmond using Vickery and Reiwoldt. We need someone who can give a physical prescence. I don't believe Brown is such a bad option. Him not getting a regular game is not necessarily a reflection on him as a player. He's just next in the pecking order for a team that many pundits originally had challenging for a flag this year. The retirement of glass will accelerate his advancement. He really hasn't been give the opportunity to develop as he has played around 30 games. If he gets to the Saints lets see if the move back home could give him some incentive to perform in an evolving backline.

[BigMart]

On our list

Steven, Ross, Armitage, Newnes, Wright, Ledger, Curran, Minchington, Saunders, Murdoch

If half of those go OK there's 5 to go with the next few drafted/traded

To replace
Dal, Joey, Hayes, Jones 4

[dragit]

Port are a prime example of having half a dozen top ten draft picks and using them well... Not bringing in a Full back that can't get a regular game at another club.

We will be getting those top ten draft picks over the next few years. We don't need a superstar fullback to fill the role but someone who will enhance our backline. One of the reasons we have been defensively poor this year is that we have been monstered by big opposition forwards ala Richmond using Vickery and Reiwoldt. We need someone who can give a physical prescence. I don't believe Brown is such a bad option. Him not getting a regular game is not necessarily a reflection on him as a player. He's just next in the pecking order for a team that many pundits originally had challenging for a flag this year. The retirement of glass will accelerate his advancement. He really hasn't been give the opportunity to develop as he has played around 30 games. If he gets to the Saints lets see if the move back home could give him some incentive to perform in an evolving backline.

So a few years on the bottom to get high picks, then a few more while they get strong & fit... Sounds closer to 8 years than 2 to me... 5+ years is realistic, 2-3 years is the fanciful figure.

[Bluthy]

Recruiting is not the be all and end all of success. That's a trap Melbourne fell into - load up on top rated youngsters in the draft, wait three years and hey presto a finals team. Swans and Geelong have developed an incredibly strong club culture and development stream that sets an incredibly high bar for the new players and then gives them clear guidance and support to get there. They haven't had high draft picks but they just keep feeding these hard-nosed kids into their team. Likewise a crap development system will turn talented youngsters into confidence-shot wrecks out of the system before they turn 25.

I think St Kilda has a lot of work to do with its club culture. All these scandals that keep happening can't be a coincidence. They are a symptom hanging over from the old party reputation of the Sainters. The board and Watters have to drive the pursuit of excellence and professionalism. The shining examples that Rooey, Hayes and Harves have set over the last decade has to be continued to transform the culture into one that is envied rather than mocked. Otherwise all the hard work and heartbreak the club and supporters went through over the last decade won't be for s***.

The passionate reaction to our struggling this year is actually a really good sign. We have become a club that now considers success not to be fleeting, but where we belong. The bar has been set higher thanks to the quality people who have been at this club over the last decade and reached high. Lets reach higher again.

[8856brother]

Port are a prime example of having half a dozen top ten draft picks and using them well... Not bringing in a Full back that can't get a regular game at another club.

We will be getting those top ten draft picks over the next few years. We don't need a superstar fullback to fill the role but someone who will enhance our backline. One of the reasons we have been defensively poor this year is that we have been monstered by big opposition forwards ala Richmond using Vickery and Reiwoldt. We need someone who can give a physical prescence. I don't believe Brown is such a bad option. Him not getting a regular game is not necessarily a reflection on him as a player. He's just next in the pecking order for a team that many pundits originally had challenging for a flag this year. The retirement of glass will accelerate his advancement. He really hasn't been give the opportunity to develop as he has played around 30 games. If he gets to the Saints lets see if the move back home could give him some incentive to perform in an evolving backline.

So a few years on the bottom to get high picks, then a few more while they get strong & fit... Sounds closer to 8 years than 2 to me... 5+ years is realistic, 2-3 years is the fanciful figure.

Agree. We are already nearly 2 years into our rebuild now.. People don't get it. 5 years would be the best possible result, but highly unlikely. We still haven't hit rock bottom yet.

Enjoy a few stress free years. It's inevitable.

[dragit]

The board and Watters have to drive the pursuit of excellence and professionalism.

I agree and I think we have already started this process, I noted last year how the club very specifically mentioned each new recruits 'solid character' as a key factor in them being taken in the draft... I think the club are really wanting to build a team of solid individuals… which will probably mean we will miss out on the Dayle Garlett types… talented but very loose.

[lefty]

Didn't WC finished down the bottom and nearly make it last year?

[bozza1980]

The 8 year rebuild timing seems inconsistent with the impatience shown by the media to coaches of rebuilding clubs.

May well be correct, but it is a guess with a few years added for dramatic effect.

With clever drafting and use of free agency there is no reason our descent needs to be anywhere near that long.

[defacto]

Midfielders are a dime a dozen..... 75% of the players on AFL lists are mids but the most important players on lists are a very different ratio

Harder to find a good big man.... But you need them to structure a team around

agree. CHF and CHB

[Spud]

[/quote]
Agree. We are already nearly 2 years into our rebuild now.. People don't get it. 5 years would be the best possible result, but highly unlikely. We still haven't hit rock bottom yet.

Enjoy a few stress free years. It's inevitable.[/quote]

So we're two years in to a rebuild plus another three makes five years. You guys also don't make allowances for free agency. We are going to have some huge salary cap space in the next couple of years. We will HAVE to be putting some serious money into obtaining some established/developing talent from other clubs. Regarding rebuilds I'm pretty patient with how this will go for a while. We aren't especially flying atm but I am enjoying the current crop coming through who should improve our situation in the next few years.

[plugger66]

Midfielders are a dime a dozen..... 75% of the players on AFL lists are mids but the most important players on lists are a very different ratio

Harder to find a good big man.... But you need them to structure a team around

Harder to find a good big man yes. No doubt but not one team in the AFL would win a game with 2 or 3 great forwards and backs without a very good or gun midfield. the Swans won the flag because of their mids last year. it happens just about every year. geelong proved that. yes they had a great backline but their mids went deep and had many very good players in it. As you 75% of players listed are mids. reckon there is a reason for that.

[freely]

Ross Lyon (may he rot in WA!) has demonstrated, however, that the gameplan can be more important than the playing list. If the plan works and the players buy in, you can achieve a lot more than we're achieving right now.

Has Watters got a plan? Or is all his bluster about our dud list a smokescreen for a lack of ideas?

[joffaboy]

Has Watters got a plan? Or is all his bluster about our dud list a smokescreen for a lack of ideas?

You cant see his gameplan?

At its basic level uses the switch, and also quick usage on the rebound.

The players are not capable of doing this either physically when under pressure and their skills aren't up to scratch for it to be effective.

That in a nutshell is his gameplan very very simply. Even a nobody like me can see what he is implementing.

Doesn't happen overnight or with the current batch of players. Malthouse got absolutely reamed by his own supporters for years with his wide gameplan until it all clicked in 2009-2011 when he got the right mix of players to implement.

[freely]

LOL. And if a nobody like you can see it, no wonder it's giving the opposition so little trouble!

[samuraisaint]

What do you mean? Goddard didn't sign an eight year contract with Essendon...

[joffaboy]

LOL. And if a nobody like you can see it, no wonder it's giving the opposition so little trouble!

You asked about agameplan Collingwood troll.

Obviously you are too stupid or too bust screwing your sister to understand.

[matrix]

dud list?

seriously
so you wouldnt have signed the four players that just got extensions for 2 years??

[The Fireman]

we have pain coming ? It's here already and will last for at least 3 more yrs....at least.... Now our biggest problem will be how to manage our list from here on out. We must copy everything The Swans, Cats ,Hawks and to a lesser extent , the Skunks and Eagles have done. When we get back up there we wanna stay there.

We have some healthy prospects in our kids so we have something to build on and do have a brighter future than some other teams.

[Scollop]

I think it's important to bottom out if you want those high picks and the salary space to move on quality Free Agents as they become available. The decision not to offer Goddard what he wanted or at least extend the deal to a 4 year contract was the right decision. If the footy department didn't make that call we may have had difficulty bottoming out. Bottoming out now should also help us climb quicker. I think it may take another 3-4 years for us to be a finals contender and I think Pelchin and Watters are the right leaders we need to get the job done.

The harsh reality is that it is "the end of an era" for that group of players who 'nearly got us there'. Time to build the next team who can be a finals and a top 4 contender. The difficulty will be in managing that group of stars that got us there and treating them with the respect they deserve as they approach their retirements.