ROSS DIDN'T DECEIVE US

[linmarnic]

I don't agree Mark.

IMO, Ross had no intention ever of staying beyond this year.

You can't persuade a guy to stay that doesn't want to.

'No intention ever'?.... so what was his request 6 months ago about?... was he bluffing?

I think he was open to leaving and open to staying, as time went on he obviously gravitated more to the latter...something p!ssed him off and he took a much better offer because he could.

My point is we've lost out here, we're not in a better position, or likely to be, and we blew the deal when we had a shot... now we're behind the eight ball big-time... = a f**k up.

I believe so.

Is it so hard to fathom that he was bluffing, when he was the one that asked for the contract, yet was also the one who asked for talks to be put on hold?

I think he was strategic enough to look beyond next year, and assess his value at the end of a potential 3-4 year tenure at the Saints.

I mean, he is the one pushing the 'career coach' message an awful lot.

I don't think it would of done his career any good to stay at the Saints, and if simple old me can work that out...it's not beyond him is it?

I reckon your right SainterK. I would like to know why Freo rang him up on the 4 Sep, just before the finals, to enquire about 2013? I reckon he had been shopping himself around since early in the year and needed time to get the best deal. Would only have stayed next year if no deal better than the Saints deal was forthcomming.

[Con Gorozidis]

agree. id say he was all along playing the saints along to see what they offered. but we were only his fall-back - his plan b.
he was on the sniff for something better.

[markp]

I don't agree Mark.

IMO, Ross had no intention ever of staying beyond this year.

You can't persuade a guy to stay that doesn't want to.

'No intention ever'?.... so what was his request 6 months ago about?... was he bluffing?

I think he was open to leaving and open to staying, as time went on he obviously gravitated more to the latter...something p!ssed him off and he took a much better offer because he could.

My point is we've lost out here, we're not in a better position, or likely to be, and we blew the deal when we had a shot... now we're behind the eight ball big-time... = a f**k up.

I believe so.

Is it so hard to fathom that he was bluffing, when he was the one that asked for the contract, yet was also the one who asked for talks to be put on hold?

I think he was strategic enough to look beyond next year, and assess his value at the end of a potential 3-4 year tenure at the Saints.

I mean, he is the one pushing the 'career coach' message an awful lot.

I don't think it would of done his career any good to stay at the Saints, and if simple old me can work that out...it's not beyond him is it?

I cant see it... 'no intention ever of staying beyond this year'.... what if freo hadn't made the (late and huge) offer?

His management were deep in negotiations with us to the very last, and had even reached some sort of agreement (hadn't they?), so I think it's likely we were a very possible option, even till late.

As for the 'career coach' line, wouldn't they all believe that?

[Con Gorozidis]

i think he intended to stay with us if nothing else came up.
but we were his plan b. so he was probably thinking along the lines of 50:50 all year.

[Megsie]

Rooey has no idea when asked some questions.

Should have kept that comment to himself but no.....

gave the feral media more fodder !!!!

How long have you been in footy rooey ??

[nw7]

Ross Lyon did decieve St Kilda, we were negotiating with his Management Group in good faith thinking that they were representing him, all the while he was doing a deal with Freo behind everyones back, it wasnt an even playing field. I'm fine with him leaving its just the way he did it.

[SainterK]

I don't agree Mark.

IMO, Ross had no intention ever of staying beyond this year.

You can't persuade a guy to stay that doesn't want to.

'No intention ever'?.... so what was his request 6 months ago about?... was he bluffing?

I think he was open to leaving and open to staying, as time went on he obviously gravitated more to the latter...something p!ssed him off and he took a much better offer because he could.

My point is we've lost out here, we're not in a better position, or likely to be, and we blew the deal when we had a shot... now we're behind the eight ball big-time... = a f**k up.

I believe so.

Is it so hard to fathom that he was bluffing, when he was the one that asked for the contract, yet was also the one who asked for talks to be put on hold?

I think he was strategic enough to look beyond next year, and assess his value at the end of a potential 3-4 year tenure at the Saints.

I mean, he is the one pushing the 'career coach' message an awful lot.

I don't think it would of done his career any good to stay at the Saints, and if simple old me can work that out...it's not beyond him is it?

I cant see it... 'no intention ever of staying beyond this year'.... what if freo hadn't made the (late and huge) offer?

His management were deep in negotiations with us to the very last, and had even reached some sort of agreement (hadn't they?), so I think it's likely we were a very possible option, even till late.

As for the 'career coach' line, wouldn't they all believe that?

I just think he is a bit more calculating than you are making out.

I don't think it was a fluke his 'out clause' was given so much publicity in recent months.

Who on earth knew that, and why was it published in the papers as early as when Dean Bailey was sacked, perhaps even earlier.

It also makes it so incredible that they expect us to beleive September 4th is when they initially made contact about 2013, and that they were pleasantly surprised to only find out after the Swans loss that perhaps Ross could be available next year

[markp]

I don't agree Mark.

IMO, Ross had no intention ever of staying beyond this year.

You can't persuade a guy to stay that doesn't want to.

'No intention ever'?.... so what was his request 6 months ago about?... was he bluffing?

I think he was open to leaving and open to staying, as time went on he obviously gravitated more to the latter...something p!ssed him off and he took a much better offer because he could.

My point is we've lost out here, we're not in a better position, or likely to be, and we blew the deal when we had a shot... now we're behind the eight ball big-time... = a f**k up.

I believe so.

Is it so hard to fathom that he was bluffing, when he was the one that asked for the contract, yet was also the one who asked for talks to be put on hold?

I think he was strategic enough to look beyond next year, and assess his value at the end of a potential 3-4 year tenure at the Saints.

I mean, he is the one pushing the 'career coach' message an awful lot.

I don't think it would of done his career any good to stay at the Saints, and if simple old me can work that out...it's not beyond him is it?

I cant see it... 'no intention ever of staying beyond this year'.... what if freo hadn't made the (late and huge) offer?

His management were deep in negotiations with us to the very last, and had even reached some sort of agreement (hadn't they?), so I think it's likely we were a very possible option, even till late.

As for the 'career coach' line, wouldn't they all believe that?

I just think he is a bit more calculating than you are making out.

I don't think it was a fluke his 'out clause' was given so much publicity in recent months.

Who on earth knew that, and why was it published in the papers as early as when Dean Bailey was sacked, perhaps even earlier.

It also makes it so incredible that they expect us to beleive September 4th is when they initially made contact about 2013, and that they were pleasantly surprised to only find out after the Swans loss that perhaps Ross could be available next year

If he wasn't happy with not getting an extension, or for whatever reason thought he was prepared or willing or desiring to go then why not put it out there that he had an out clause?.... Seems diabolical to me that he had one, doesn't a 3 month out clause make his tenure just like being an employee on a salary, and only needing to give notice?...

Anyway, you're saying all that occurred meant he wasn't at all prepared to stay, I'm saying all it meant is he was prepared to go.... to me, it all had a last minute 'why the hell not?' feel to it.

Cant believe for a minute that he requested a 4 year unconditional deal 6 months ago but didn't really want it.... what if we'd 'called his bluff'?

[barks4eva]

.... this one's the boards fault , imo.

... preaching the 10 year plan , then inserting a get out clause ,

That's IT!

Give the masses what they want to hear and at the very same time hedge your bets with other clandestine agendas

shadow boxers, fence sitters and glove puppets

I'm sure Lyon really appreciated that!

NOT!

Explain yourself you ignorant arrogant windbag of cats piss.

Whats not straight forward about my post ?

Your one sad human bananna , coz your not grown up enough to be a human ... becoming what you rail against.

Cmon , ya git ... Explain yourself ya self pumped up hand puppet

In my reply to your post " preaching the 10 year plan, then inserting a get out clause"


I was actually agreeing with you 100% and thought you made an EXCELLENT point.

I'd hate to see what you'd write about me should I happen to disagree with you!

cheers

[SainterK]

That's where we differ, I can believe it

The fact he kept saying transition, but wasn't living transition, it's all a bit strange now.

So your saying he should of put it out there that he had an out clause, but you disagree he was testing the market early days?

[barks4eva]

If he wasn't happy with not getting an extension, or for whatever reason thought he was prepared or willing or desiring to go then why not put it out there that he had an out clause?.... Seems diabolical to me that he had one, doesn't a 3 month out clause make his tenure just like being an employee on a salary, and only needing to give notice?...

Anyway, you're saying all that occurred meant he wasn't at all prepared to stay, I'm saying all it meant is he was prepared to go.... to me, it all had a last minute 'why the hell not?' feel to it.

Cant believe for a minute that he requested a 4 year unconditional deal 6 months ago but didn't really want it.... what if we'd 'called his bluff'?

Precisely!


The out clauses are diabolical and gave Lyon no security and displayed a complete lack of faith, trust and belief

obviously inserted because the board were hedging their bets and what they thought was in there to protect them finished up biting them on their arses

Loyalty is a two way street and when it was not given, it was not reciprocated!

[SainterK]

Yeah, cause offering him a three year contract at that point in the season wasn't showing loyalty

Sorry, but I'm going to add one of these

[markp]

That's where we differ, I can believe it

The fact he kept saying transition, but wasn't living transition, it's all a bit strange now.

So your saying he should of put it out there that he had an out clause, but you disagree he was testing the market early days?

Testing the market (if he did, because who knows how that information got out) doesn't mean 'no intention ever of staying'.

There's no way (IMO) he would request a 4 year deal 6 months ago if he didn't want one... what if we'd said 'great idea! Let's get it done now....' as we probable should've... or else we should've started testing the waters (no pun intended!) for a new coach ourselves, cos now we're up against it.

[SainterK]

That's where we differ, I can believe it

The fact he kept saying transition, but wasn't living transition, it's all a bit strange now.

So your saying he should of put it out there that he had an out clause, but you disagree he was testing the market early days?

Testing the market (if he did, because who knows how that information got out) doesn't mean 'no intention ever of staying'.

There's no way (IMO) he would request a 4 year deal 6 months ago if he didn't want one... what if we'd said 'great idea! Let's get it done now....' as we probable should've... or else we should've started testing the waters (no pun intended!) for a new coach ourselves, cos now we're up against it.

I don't think there was any chance of 'great idea' let's get it done now personally.

Let's say it was sometime in April that Ross asked for a 4 year unconditional contract.

He wouldn't of even had a win on the board yet and been at 3 losses and a draw. The Saints were in the press yet again after the Geelong game, for an incredibly awful display of football.

Even if discussions went for another month until he put them on hold, it would of extended out to about 5 losses, a draw and a win.

Why on earth was he so stroppy, and not fathoming that 3 years was a pretty good starting point? Why did that offend so much?

[barks4eva]

That's where we differ, I can believe it

The fact he kept saying transition, but wasn't living transition, it's all a bit strange now.

So your saying he should of put it out there that he had an out clause, but you disagree he was testing the market early days?

I think your living in fantasy land, defending the club at all costs.

A few weeks ago I was criticizing Lyon's team selection and you were defending him, like many who simply toe the party line regardless

Remember Westaway telling the press that he does not like our game style.... betcha he didn't mind the Grand Final appearances

The board maintained a frosty relationship with him for years, inserted get out clauses, having a bit of an each way bet, appointed Pelchen after we started the year with one win and a draw including a BYE at round 8 as an immediate knee jerk reaction to our start to the season

A one point loss to Geelong when Blake had a brain fade, a draw with Richmond and a three point loss to Carlton.... so we were close to almost four wins and three losses and after the summer of turmoil we had a slow start was no surprise

anyway that is pure semantics

the real issue is the board were not convinced by Lyon, even though Westaway would also tell the press we would like Lyon to be a 10 year coach etc...

and they in a quite deliberate act wanted to usurp Lyon's authority and control

The board had the opportunity to back Lyon IN in April but preferred to dilly dally, wait and see and have a bit each way

With get out clauses that the board themselves inserted who can seriously blame Lyon when he gets offered almost four million more dollars and uses it to walk

and go to a club obviously willing to do anything to get him

Why would you stick around with a club who's president has much the same opinion about you as Shane Warne?

We needed Lyon for stability and the process of rebuilding had already started in the 2010 draft when we recruited Cripps, Crocker, Ledger, Sipposs etc...etc....

[SainterK]

That's where we differ, I can believe it

The fact he kept saying transition, but wasn't living transition, it's all a bit strange now.

So your saying he should of put it out there that he had an out clause, but you disagree he was testing the market early days?

I think your living in fantasy land, defending the club at all costs.

A few weeks ago I was criticizing Lyon's team selection and you were defending him, like many who simply toe the party line regardless

Remember Westaway telling the press that he does not like our game style.... betcha he didn't mind the Grand Final appearances

The board maintained a frosty relationship with him for years, inserted get out clauses, having a bit of an each way bet, appointed Pelchen after we started the year with one win and a draw including a BYE at round 8 as an immediate knee jerk reaction to our start to the season

A one point loss to Geelong when Blake had a brain fade, a draw with Richmond and a three point loss to Carlton.... so we were close to almost four wins and three losses and after the summer of turmoil we had a slow start was no surprise

anyway that is pure semantics

the real issue is the board were not convinced by Lyon, even though Westaway would also tell the press we would like Lyon to be a 10 year coach etc...

and they in a quite deliberate act wanted to usurp Lyon's authority and control

The board had the opportunity to back Lyon IN in April but preferred to dilly dally, wait and see and have a bit each way

With get out clauses that the board themselves inserted who can seriously blame Lyon when he gets offered almost four million more dollars and uses it to walk

and go to a club obviously willing to do anything to get him

Why would you stick around with a club who's president has much the same opinion about you as Shane Warne?

We needed Lyon for stability and the process of rebuilding had already started in the 2010 draft when we recruited Cripps, Crocker, Ledger, Sipposs etc...etc....

I was a big fan of Ross as a coach, thought he was great...not sure what that has to do with the discussion of if he had intention to stay beyond this year?

You said...

the real issue is the board were not convinced by Lyon, even though Westaway would also tell the press we would like Lyon to be a 10 year coach etc.

Not convinced, or had some expectations of him, that he was falling short in?

Or is that not allowed anymore as a board?

Can you not ask a coach if he could try to improve or modify in certain areas?

[desertsaint]

arrogant tosser ended up believing his own hype.
happily played us all. of course he deceived us, his manager, probably his wife, and the media. it's in his nature. a man that doesn't value loyalty obviously has no moral imperative to be honest if it isn't in what he thinks are his best interests. (wonder how his weddings vows went?)
what i am more amused about is some are regretting the club 'letting him go'.
why the F*** would we want somebody whose heart isn't in it and who thinks loyalty is for dogs? good short term coach with a decent list, but not quite up to the task he was employed to do.
the club played it beautifully, even if they didn't realise it at the ime - got rid of him without having to pay him out.

[gringo]

Look it is as simple as Ross received a Callum Ward offer. If he stayed he may have had another year of just scraping into finals, sacked he never coaches again and on the dole in his early 50s. Goes to Freo 7.5 mil guaranteed. I know it was an act of deceit and Machiavellian backroom dealings, but he sold out to the dollar.

I can't say what I would do if I was honest with myself. The conservative side of me says that you would set up your future the passionate side says i'd stay loyal.

[Dr Spaceman]

Look it is as simple as Ross received a Callum Ward offer. If he stayed he may have had another year of just scraping into finals, sacked he never coaches again and on the dole in his early 50s. Goes to Freo 7.5 mil guaranteed. I know it was an act of deceit and Machiavellian backroom dealings, but he sold out to the dollar.

I can't say what I would do if I was honest with myself. The conservative side of me says that you would set up your future the passionate side says i'd stay loyal.

Does he move on again in 5 years time when Freo's list is aging?

[gringo]

Look it is as simple as Ross received a Callum Ward offer. If he stayed he may have had another year of just scraping into finals, sacked he never coaches again and on the dole in his early 50s. Goes to Freo 7.5 mil guaranteed. I know it was an act of deceit and Machiavellian backroom dealings, but he sold out to the dollar.

I can't say what I would do if I was honest with myself. The conservative side of me says that you would set up your future the passionate side says i'd stay loyal.

Does he move on again in 5 years time when Freo's list is aging?

No he won't coach again, he won't make the end of his contract and the board will spill, Freo have the same fatalistic determination to f%$# up everything they touch. Malcolm Blight was a brave move by a board desperate to grab a piece of someone else's past glories. Stinks of creating your history based on someone else's -that was our past.

[markp]

That's where we differ, I can believe it

The fact he kept saying transition, but wasn't living transition, it's all a bit strange now.

So your saying he should of put it out there that he had an out clause, but you disagree he was testing the market early days?

Testing the market (if he did, because who knows how that information got out) doesn't mean 'no intention ever of staying'.

There's no way (IMO) he would request a 4 year deal 6 months ago if he didn't want one... what if we'd said 'great idea! Let's get it done now....' as we probable should've... or else we should've started testing the waters (no pun intended!) for a new coach ourselves, cos now we're up against it.

I don't think there was any chance of 'great idea' let's get it done now personally.

Let's say it was sometime in April that Ross asked for a 4 year unconditional contract.

He wouldn't of even had a win on the board yet and been at 3 losses and a draw. The Saints were in the press yet again after the Geelong game, for an incredibly awful display of football.

Even if discussions went for another month until he put them on hold, it would of extended out to about 5 losses, a draw and a win.

Why on earth was he so stroppy, and not fathoming that 3 years was a pretty good starting point? Why did that offend so much?

Two GF appearances in a row, effectively within a kick in both of them (with a team who cant kick) and very close in those early losses this year, he may have thought it was not unreasonable to seek a display of faith in the immediate and longer term to either reload, rejig, or rebuild if it came to it, and was certainly entitled if not wise to think about making other arrangements when it wasn't forthcoming.

For mine that's when it started, and it ended when freo said $7.5million, at that moment we were not unreasonably sunk.... then it got messy.

According to most here we are better off without him though, so happy days.

[SainterK]

I'd call it a display of faith by the board to allow him to in a way, risk the future by picking up journeymen from other clubs to play roles?

Faith comes in lots of forms, and it's not the one way relationship you are trying to paint here.

A three year deal is not to be scoffed at, and isn't really what you'd call short term.

Anyway, I'm not sure how his leaving will impact us this coming year, that remains to be seen. However it's a win for him, as a career coach, to be leaving St Kilda and taking over a young promising list.

However that is just by chance, and not at all what he intended

[barks4eva]

arrogant tosser ended up believing his own hype.
happily played us all. of course he deceived us, his manager, probably his wife, and the media. it's in his nature. a man that doesn't value loyalty obviously has no moral imperative to be honest if it isn't in what he thinks are his best interests. (wonder how his weddings vows went?)
what i am more amused about is some are regretting the club 'letting him go'.
why the F*** would we want somebody whose heart isn't in it and who thinks loyalty is for dogs? good short term coach with a decent list, but not quite up to the task he was employed to do.
the club played it beautifully, even if they didn't realise it at the ime - got rid of him without having to pay him out.

oh dear

[barks4eva]

The previous board unearthed a brilliant coach who should have been a ten year coach for us at the very least


but the current board, you know the idiots who took the club to Seaford have managed to lose him through their serial incompetence!


Westaway is a clown.... seriously can people not see that


It's so obvious it's scary that anyone would form a ticket to begin with and insert this nuffie as it's leader


The board have monumentally screwed this up


People ( about 95% of this site ) blaming Lyon for no longer wanting to tolerate disloyalty from these clowns when a better offer comes along are being naive and stupid


This board will send the club to the wall!


Wake up you bunch of sleepers!

[Dr Spaceman]

The previous board unearthed a brilliant coach who should have been a ten year coach for us at the very least


but the current board, you know the idiots who took the club to Seaford have managed to lose him through their serial incompetence!


Westaway is a clown.... seriously can people not see that


It's so obvious it's scary that anyone would form a ticket to begin with and insert this nuffie as it's leader


The board have monumentally screwed this up


People ( about 95% of this site ) blaming Lyon for no longer wanting to tolerate disloyalty from these clowns when a better offer comes along are being naive and stupid


This board will send the club to the wall!


Wake up you bunch of sleepers!

Interesting thoughts.

Why haven't you expressed these before