He is gone...rumour

[rodgerfox]

Like I said. ON-FIELD a proven gun.

Like I said. I totally disagree.

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

Essendon are laughing their arses off over this.

Offloaded this idiot to us for #16, and the clown is so uinhinged that he wont even play a game with us.

Ross Lyon has completely stuffed up.

Completely.

Whiile he clearly would have been consulted, I don't believe the coach can be held fully responsible for recruitment decisions: Lyon any more than GT.

Drain has made a considerable effort to identify himself publicly with the recruitment of a number of players from other clubs: Dawson and Ray in particular. He gives the appearance of being keen to bring in recycled players as much as possible.

So he might well be as much (or more) to blame than Lyon.

But, ultimately, I think the decision to recruit AL was a reasonable one under the circumstances. The reason it looks rather bad ATM is because we also let Luke Ball go.

You make very good sense meher baba...

[Milton66]

Ok, so people are looking at this as a Ball / Lovett trade off and drawing conclusions / judgement.

If Peake and Smith come along as required... how bad will this year's supposed recruiting "disaster" be judged?

[barks4eva]

No one here and if you did think it your lying would have ever dreamed getting into a GF with only losing 2 games for the year. Not in our wildest dreams you could have seen 2009 play out like it did.

andrews had the sh!ts with me all last year , because of exactly that ... i said we'd make it then lose it (and i'd be happy with that *) ... no idea about only losing two though , thought we'd come from fourth

* which is the bit i think pissed him off bigtime

Yes it pissed me off bigtime, more than you could imagine!

I had a small dick friend say the exact same thing to me after we got on a roll in 97, pissed me off then, so thanks( NOT ) for being that guy last year

small dick string and a brick thinking etc...etc...

I only want to make Grand Finals and WIN them and I don't care where we come from, losing Grand Finals pffft, may as well get knocked out in the first final and get an earlier draft pick for all it's worth.

So are you happy gaz, happy with what, winning nothing, FAIR DINKUM

I would claim to be a pacifist, but if any small dick goofball says to me this year, they'd be happy just to make the Grand Final, irrespective of the result, I think I'll fair dinkum go ballistic on them.


Only ONE option, WIN!

[matrix]

those that consider finals footy to be important clearly have no idea.

finals footy games have no bearing on the outcome of who plays in or wins the grand final.

[joffaboy]

Yes it pissed me off bigtime, more than you could imagine!

I had a small dick friend say the exact same thing to me after we got on a roll in 97, pissed me off then, so thanks( NOT ) for being that guy last year

small dick string and a brick thinking etc...etc...

I only want to make Grand Finals and WIN them and I don't care where we come from, losing Grand Finals pffft, may as well get knocked out in the first final and get an earlier draft pick for all it's worth.

So are you happy gaz, happy with what, winning nothing, FAIR DINKUM

I would claim to be a pacifist, but if any small dick goofball says to me this year, they'd be happy just to make the Grand Final, irrespective of the result, I think I'll fair dinkum go ballistic on them.


Only ONE option, WIN!

None of these small dicks are any good for all the pissing contests on here

So what if gaz said that B4E, why would it matter to you? If a mate of mine said they hoped the Saints would make the GF and then get beaten by a record score AND they would be happy with that - well I wouldn't give a rats arse.


Fair Dinkum - win or lose, life goes on.

[Badlands]

It bemuses me that last year Lyon was the trade master by taking chances on some players. This year he is the worst list manager. FFS people.

What - it's not possible to get it right one year and then get it wrong the next? Apparently Ricky Ponting (er...sorry, Rick) got it horribly wrong and then got it horribly right about 48hrs later, so it can happen. He was criticised when he was perceived to have gotten it wrong (and as with Lyon, the critics were of course much wiser after the event) and praised when things worked out. That's just how the world works.

I have no qualms with Ross Lyon - big fan actually, but this is an internet forum and it stands to reason that decisions taken that don't necessarily appear to come off are going to be criticised by some.

If that bemuses you, then your bemusement bemuses me.

[Richter]

Like I said. ON-FIELD a proven gun.

Like I said. I totally disagree.

Your usual level of exacting analysis there Rodg.

[Richter]

Lyon was seduced by percieved positives and obviously overlooked the negatives.....like the fact that the guy is a d***head

You're right Marto, though I would say that he didn't overlook the negatives - weighed them up hence....

The Saints had researched Lovett's history in depth before recruiting him, speaking to former Bomber captains James Hird and Matthew Lloyd as well as Lovett's Essendon mentor John Quinn.

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default ... wsid=87456

RL is quoted as saying....

Andrew's a good person. Everyone on our list is a good person otherwise they wouldn't be here.

And.....

In the fullness of time we are happy to be judged and Andrew to be judged. From here he is under no illusions about the requirements and actions he needs to take to earn respect and more importantly earn trust here.

Hmmm.... the current silence from the club about AL in my view is deafening... You know the old saying, "if you can't say anything nice. don't say anything at all". I reckon that's what is going on here. I agree with the OP that it seems likely that AL has irrevocably lost the respect and trust of the club. We shall see.

[stinger]

I would claim to be a pacifist, but if any small dick goofball says to me this year, they'd be happy just to make the Grand Final, irrespective of the result, I think I'll fair dinkum go ballistic on them.


Only ONE option, WIN!

what happens if the guy saying that has a big dick....?


.....but ..i agree with you.....winning is the only option......i am heartly sick of attending losing grand finals ffs.....

[3rd generation saint]

The worst thing about this whole saga is that it is such a waste of talent.
AL is thrown the chance of a lifetime, and just throws it away in 1 short month.
Let's face most young men, regardless of their past would at least make an effort to clean themselves up and have a crack before losing it.
This whole episode makes me believe that Lovett just didn't care and had the perception that he was bullit proof and nothing could touch him.
For him, the chance has passed and he will regret it so very much in the coming years, especially if this team fulfills it's destiny this year and wins the flag without him.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

I think we'll win it this year, with or without AL.

[markp]

The worst thing about this whole saga is that it is such a waste of talent.
AL is thrown the chance of a lifetime, and just throws it away in 1 short month.
Let's face most young men, regardless of their past would at least make an effort to clean themselves up and have a crack before losing it.
This whole episode makes me believe that Lovett just didn't care and had the perception that he was bullit proof and nothing could touch him.
For him, the chance has passed and he will regret it so very much in the coming years, especially if this team fulfills it's destiny this year and wins the flag without him.

If these allegations are true, I'd say he is a very unwell man who was able for the most part to fool those around him, but who has issues bigger than any football club could ever be equipped to deal with.

[IluvHarvey]

I think we'll win it this year, with or without AL.

This is my favourite quote for the year so far!!

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Thanks Iluvharvey.
Keep the faith!

[barks4eva]

I would claim to be a pacifist, but if any small dick goofball says to me this year, they'd be happy just to make the Grand Final, irrespective of the result, I think I'll fair dinkum go ballistic on them.


Only ONE option, WIN!

what happens if the guy saying that has a big dick....?


.....but ..i agree with you.....winning is the only option......i am heartly sick of attending losing grand finals ffs.....

As it happens both guys actually have small dicks, but please do not ask me as to how I know!

[BigMart]

It could be a case of .... can't see the forest for the trees....

Some people seem to think we either will

win the flag next year or need to make sure we do...not a guarantee..... what I am saying is that being short-sighted can come at a cost and there is a risk involved when you do not continue to bring the best young talent in..... a long term negative effect....even if lovett worked (which was very speculative) it still would have hurt long term....and it will take more than 1 more year at the top to win the GF

example
Sydney picked up Hall for Dal....Hall has left (with a cup) we have a dual AA who has another possible 120 games left.....short term it worked for sydney.....long term it has benefited us...Dal may play in 2 flags yet.....IF HALL was delisted before he played a game.....who would have been the winner?????

there is also the effect of breaking up a tight knit group for results....and how that effects group loyalty down the track....we expect players to remain loyal and stick by the jumper even when their income is at stake, yet it seems we think the club has NO responsibility to do the same?????

Supporters even Boo players who gave great service to the jumper in their time.....

anyway that is another argument.....

Fact is
Ball gone for Zero.......LOSS
Lovett gone for Pick #16.......LOSS
Clarke gone for pick #60.....Ridiculous and pointless.
Maguire for pick #90......was he a better gamble than the kid from Sandy....time will tell....maybe that was worth the risk
Peake.....fair enough, as a back up for X if he did not work

I would have preferred
Pick #16, Pick 30, Pick 32, X.Clarke, Pick 63, Pick 77
in the last uncomprimised draft.....considering the next few years we will get zilch

[rodgerfox]

Averages over a goal a game from the midfield.

Compare his 2009 season to that of Andrew Mcqualter....

Player.................. MT. K... Avg. H.. Avg.. D.. Avg.. Ma Avg T. Avg G Avg SC Rat Avg
Andrew Lovett..... 22 292 13.3 167 7.6 459 20.9 74 3.4 56 2.5 21 1 143 1770 80.5
Andrew McQualter 24 123 5.1 222 9.3 345 14.4 61 2.5 112 4.7 22 0.9 139 1574 65.6

Mcqualter is a GOP who has just had his best season ever playing in the midfield/small forward role. He averaged 0.9 goals per game, 4.7 tackles per game and 14.4 disposals per game. Lovett averaged 1 goal a game, 2.5 tackles per game and 20.9 disposals per game.

Put it another way. We need a pacy mid who gets the ball and snags a goal. Here is a list of players who averaged over 20 disposals last year - only these players had a higher goals per game average in 2009 than Lovett.....

Gary Ablett Jnr
Paul Chapman
Marc Murphy
Colin Sylvia
Brad Green
Brad Johnson
Adam Goodes
Lindsay Gilbey
Shaun Higgins
Justin Sherman
Leon Davis
Daniel Giansiracusa

Not bad company eh?

Like I said. ON-FIELD a proven gun.

He has not finished in his club's B&F Top 10.

That's damning considering they are a shiit team who were ravaged by injury.


It means one of the following...

He does not do what the coach/team want him to do, therefore doesn't get votes.

He is inconsistent and drifts in and out of games.

He may get 20 touches, but doesn't do anything that resembles team play.

He wastes the nut.

All of the above.


To say he is a proven gun is crazy. Proven to whom? Obviously not Essendon.
Obviosly not the umps as in his 'best ever season' he only polled 5 votes.
Obviously not the 'experts', as he was nowhere to be seen in the Herald-Sun Player of the Year awards.

The last two don't matter much, but the first one does. If the club he plays for doesn't rate him, he's not proving he's a gun to anyone - except you it seems and few over-exhuberant Saints fans on here.

Average player, and I must admit a bizarre choice of footballer for Lyon to recruit.
He just doesn't do the things that Lyon insists from his players.

[GrumpyOne]

i am heartly sick of attending losing grand finals ffs.....

I'm with you there, brother.

[barks4eva]

andrews had the sh!ts with me all last year , because of exactly that ... i said we'd make it then lose it (and i'd be happy with that *) ... no idea about only losing two though , thought we'd come from fourth

* which is the bit i think pissed him off bigtime

Actually I remember when I first heard you say it!

Rnd 21 when we were on top of the ladder and premiership favourites!

Mind you I'd be pissed off if you had of said it on Jan 21, let alone Round 21!

Very lame gaz!

more strings and a heavier brick >

[Spinner]

It could be a case of .... can't see the forest for the trees....

Some people seem to think we either will

win the flag next year or need to make sure we do...not a guarantee..... what I am saying is that being short-sighted can come at a cost and there is a risk involved when you do not continue to bring the best young talent in..... a long term negative effect....even if lovett worked (which was very speculative) it still would have hurt long term....and it will take more than 1 more year at the top to win the GF

example
Sydney picked up Hall for Dal....Hall has left (with a cup) we have a dual AA who has another possible 120 games left.....short term it worked for sydney.....long term it has benefited us...Dal may play in 2 flags yet.....IF HALL was delisted before he played a game.....who would have been the winner?????

there is also the effect of breaking up a tight knit group for results....and how that effects group loyalty down the track....we expect players to remain loyal and stick by the jumper even when their income is at stake, yet it seems we think the club has NO responsibility to do the same?????

Supporters even Boo players who gave great service to the jumper in their time.....

anyway that is another argument.....

Fact is
Ball gone for Zero.......LOSS
Lovett gone for Pick #16.......LOSS
Clarke gone for pick #60.....Ridiculous and pointless.
Maguire for pick #90......was he a better gamble than the kid from Sandy....time will tell....maybe that was worth the risk
Peake.....fair enough, as a back up for X if he did not work

I would have preferred
Pick #16, Pick 30, Pick 32, X.Clarke, Pick 63, Pick 77
in the last uncomprimised draft.....considering the next few years we will get zilch

Pick 30 for Ball is still a loss in my eyes.

Taking it would have been like agreeing to be f***ed in the arse.

By refusing it, and in effect lowering the percentages of a certain competitor gaining a double hit on us (we lose one, they gain one) we at least put up a fight. But in the end still got rooted.



If I knew Lovett would be on sexual assault charges - I wouldn't have traded pick 16. During trade week - I would have in a heart beat. None of us are fortune tellers.

[rodgerfox]

win the flag next year or need to make sure we do...not a guarantee..... what I am saying is that being short-sighted can come at a cost and there is a risk involved when you do not continue to bring the best young talent in..... a long term negative effect....even if lovett worked (which was very speculative) it still would have hurt long term....and it will take more than 1 more year at the top to win the GF

I believe recruitment should be completely and utterly irrelevant to where you finished on the ladder last year.

As a club, you must ensure you're on the improve. You need to cover the loss of players, cover the 'tapering' of players' abilities as they get older, maintain the age balance of your list, and improve on weaknesses that have cost you games.

If we have taken the mindset of 'if we had a guy like Lovett in the GF last year, we'd have won the flag' attitude into Trade Week, then frankly we're on the wrong track.

What we need to be worried about, is the massive reliance on Riewoldt. How can we address this in terms of our list?
We also need to address the massive on Lenny Hayes. How do we address this?

Recruiting a guy like Lovett, will not address either. Infact, I don't see what it addresses at all to be honest.

One of the slowest teams in the comp have played in the last 3 GFs.

[fingers]

It bemuses me that last year Lyon was the trade master by taking chances on some players. This year he is the worst list manager. FFS people.

What - it's not possible to get it right one year and then get it wrong the next? Apparently Ricky Ponting (er...sorry, Rick) got it horribly wrong and then got it horribly right about 48hrs later, so it can happen. He was criticised when he was perceived to have gotten it wrong (and as with Lyon, the critics were of course much wiser after the event) and praised when things worked out. That's just how the world works.

I have no qualms with Ross Lyon - big fan actually, but this is an internet forum and it stands to reason that decisions taken that don't necessarily appear to come off are going to be criticised by some.

If that bemuses you, then your bemusement bemuses me.

Of course it is possible. But to label the guy one thing or the other is stupid. Judge him on his time at the club. Not one freakin' trade.

[bigred]

This would not have happened if GT was here...

[Spinner]

win the flag next year or need to make sure we do...not a guarantee..... what I am saying is that being short-sighted can come at a cost and there is a risk involved when you do not continue to bring the best young talent in..... a long term negative effect....even if lovett worked (which was very speculative) it still would have hurt long term....and it will take more than 1 more year at the top to win the GF

I believe recruitment should be completely and utterly irrelevant to where you finished on the ladder last year.

As a club, you must ensure you're on the improve. You need to cover the loss of players, cover the 'tapering' of players' abilities as they get older, maintain the age balance of your list, and improve on weaknesses that have cost you games.

If we have taken the mindset of 'if we had a guy like Lovett in the GF last year, we'd have won the flag' attitude into Trade Week, then frankly we're on the wrong track.

What we need to be worried about, is the massive reliance on Riewoldt. How can we address this in terms of our list?
We also need to address the massive on Lenny Hayes. How do we address this?

Recruiting a guy like Lovett, will not address either. Infact, I don't see what it addresses at all to be honest.

One of the slowest teams in the comp have played in the last 3 GFs.

I agree speed is one of the most overrated facets of the game today. Geelong move the ball quick - That is the difference.

Those two areas (LH AND NR) need to be addressed. It was outlined in the finals series quite clearly...But I think that the solution is already on our list. Managed inside as opposed to an outside fix.

Lovett addressed an area which we did not have - attacking, runs the lines midfielder. A dynamic that was an extremely tempting ingredient to out midfield group. I agree that the list's future continually needs to be focused on - But a 100% 'in five years time' future attitude is risking looking and capitalizing on the present.

If that is the only attitude required for trade week - well we might as well not even turn up, unless wanting to sell for draft picks.