Gram

[Winmar7Fan]

I don't know about the rest of you but I class a 60 metre poor kick that rolls out of bounds for a throw in 20 metres out from our goal, or landing nowhere 30 metres out resulting in a ball up from a wrap up tackle as a being in a good position.

Well i rate a 60 meter drop punt that hits a target even better

but each to their own...

Yeah and I'd rather Roo kick every goal within 50 metres out on the boundary than miss a lot of them too.

You aren't being realistic and I'll say it again eff ratings don't reflect. How many turn overs are there in a game from both teams?

A long bomb that bounces and is picked up by an opposition defender who losses it or turns it over resulting in a goal for us is a kick in the arse for Gram.

10 disposals from the centre to try and safely hit a leading forward on the chest most times takes a heap of turn overs before it comes off.

1 take and carry kicking it long quickly deep in attack even if it misses the target still puts pressure on their defence and gives us an opportunity to goal.

Ok let me get this right bearing in mind he's never going to kick every long kick at full pace and hit a player on the chest. Let's even say he never changes.

You'd prefer him chip little 20 meter passes around hitting targets in defence and turn the odd one over like everyone does back there, rather than do what he did saturday?

[Milton66]

he is an out and out receiver I am getting a bit sick of the small step shuffles he does to avoid being first to the ball or to lay a tackle, it stands out like dogs bollocks when the rest of the side are having a red hot dip....that aside his pace is still something that we crave, especially on big grounds

If Gram was any more outside, he'd be running around on the concourse,

he hangs back to avoid body contact as much as possible even when he's the only St kilda player near the opposition player,

as soft as they come, an absolute show pony who wouldn't know a hard ball get even with a truckload of viagra,

his kicking is atrocious, needs to spend more time working on his foot skills as opposed to the tips in his hair,

one thing being an outside receiver, but fair dinkum sometimes, you have to have a fair dinkum go,

Gram shirks the contest, even when he's the closest St Kilda player to the ball and the opponent,

his softness stands out like a truckload of viagra, if that makes sense!

I agree!

And further more, he should also learn how to:

- kick it up the guts

- man up

- stop handballing and kick the thing

... and throw himself into the tackles, so that when the ball comes out, we've got no one to feed it off to.



whilst we respect the right of supporters to voice their opinions, to call a player soft is the lowest of lows, and says more about your pathetic existance than the player.

[Sobraz]

Ross moving Gram into the middle during the 2nd qtr changed the game for us against the Roos... We started breaking the lines and moving up the middle, instead of ideling around the flanks...

In the first qtr he was just treading water, but once he got to chase the ball around abit, he really stepped up...

I think his days as a defender are gone; he has to play further up the field and get involved..

He is very important to us, and his game on Sat was his best of the year... Hopefully he continues from here....

[saintbrat]

afl .com.au writers aobviousl;y think he has some good points

2. St Kilda 15.13 (103) d North Melbourne 9.3 (57) at Docklands
Watch the full match replay online
The moment: With the game well and truly over, the way Jason Gram pursued and tackled Daniel Pratt in the dying minutes said much about the player and the team. Gram, who was dropped a few weeks ago, kicked the last goal of the match after catching Pratt holding the ball. He is a man clearly on a mission to secure a spot in an unbeaten line-up.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

[bergholt]

despite missing a game, he's still number 2 in the league for inside 50s, just behind judd, ahead of pearce, goodes, sewell.

irreplaceable in the side, for mine - there's no-one else who does what he does. i agree that he can be a little soft but there's room for a couple of players like that in the side. everyone doesn't have to be luke ball.

[The_Dud]

I don't know about the rest of you but I class a 60 metre poor kick that rolls out of bounds for a throw in 20 metres out from our goal, or landing nowhere 30 metres out resulting in a ball up from a wrap up tackle as a being in a good position.

Well i rate a 60 meter drop punt that hits a target even better

but each to their own...

Yeah and I'd rather Roo kick every goal within 50 metres out on the boundary than miss a lot of them too.

You aren't being realistic and I'll say it again eff ratings don't reflect. How many turn overs are there in a game from both teams?

A long bomb that bounces and is picked up by an opposition defender who losses it or turns it over resulting in a goal for us is a kick in the arse for Gram.

10 disposals from the centre to try and safely hit a leading forward on the chest most times takes a heap of turn overs before it comes off.

1 take and carry kicking it long quickly deep in attack even if it misses the target still puts pressure on their defence and gives us an opportunity to goal.

Ok let me get this right bearing in mind he's never going to kick every long kick at full pace and hit a player on the chest. Let's even say he never changes.

You'd prefer him chip little 20 meter passes around hitting targets in defence and turn the odd one over like everyone does back there, rather than do what he did saturday?

I don't expect every long kick to hit a target, but not ONE of his long kicks yesterday hit a target that i can remember

but the WORST thing was when it was his turn to put his head over the ball and take a hit, he full on DOGGED the contest

very poor

[Spinner]

he is an out and out receiver I am getting a bit sick of the small step shuffles he does to avoid being first to the ball or to lay a tackle, it stands out like dogs bollocks when the rest of the side are having a red hot dip....that aside his pace is still something that we crave, especially on big grounds

If Gram was any more outside, he'd be running around on the concourse,

he hangs back to avoid body contact as much as possible even when he's the only St kilda player near the opposition player,

as soft as they come, an absolute show pony who wouldn't know a hard ball get even with a truckload of viagra,

his kicking is atrocious, needs to spend more time working on his foot skills as opposed to the tips in his hair,

one thing being an outside receiver, but fair dinkum sometimes, you have to have a fair dinkum go,

Gram shirks the contest, even when he's the closest St Kilda player to the ball and the opponent,

his softness stands out like a truckload of viagra, if that makes sense!

I agree!

And further more, he should also learn how to:

- kick it up the guts

- man up

- stop handballing and kick the thing

... and throw himself into the tackles, so that when the ball comes out, we've got no one to feed it off to.



whilst we respect the right of supporters to voice their opinions, to call a player soft is the lowest of lows, and says more about your pathetic existance than the player.

With all fairness of Grams good game on the weekend, the above comments are accurate.

Gram lacks intensity at the contested ball - has been a drawback in his game from day one.....

But I still love Gram because that is the football I would strive to play (not being sarcastic ) - Strickly outside!

[Milton66]

he is an out and out receiver I am getting a bit sick of the small step shuffles he does to avoid being first to the ball or to lay a tackle, it stands out like dogs bollocks when the rest of the side are having a red hot dip....that aside his pace is still something that we crave, especially on big grounds

If Gram was any more outside, he'd be running around on the concourse,

he hangs back to avoid body contact as much as possible even when he's the only St kilda player near the opposition player,

as soft as they come, an absolute show pony who wouldn't know a hard ball get even with a truckload of viagra,

his kicking is atrocious, needs to spend more time working on his foot skills as opposed to the tips in his hair,

one thing being an outside receiver, but fair dinkum sometimes, you have to have a fair dinkum go,

Gram shirks the contest, even when he's the closest St Kilda player to the ball and the opponent,

his softness stands out like a truckload of viagra, if that makes sense!

I agree!

And further more, he should also learn how to:

- kick it up the guts

- man up

- stop handballing and kick the thing

... and throw himself into the tackles, so that when the ball comes out, we've got no one to feed it off to.



whilst we respect the right of supporters to voice their opinions, to call a player soft is the lowest of lows, and says more about your pathetic existance than the player.

With all fairness of Grams good game on the weekend, the above comments are accurate.

Gram lacks intensity at the contested ball - has been a drawback in his game from day one.....

But I still love Gram because that is the football I would strive to play (not being sarcastic ) - Strickly outside!

Fair call, and no one doubts he's an outside player. But when you get a post like that, you have to wonder if people are doing it to stroke their egos or what?

If he's required toput his head over the ball and become an inside player as all the experts on here think he has to, then he'll either change his game, or get dropped again.

I just detest gutless people bagging players on a forum.

[rexy]

he is an out and out receiver I am getting a bit sick of the small step shuffles he does to avoid being first to the ball or to lay a tackle, it stands out like dogs bollocks when the rest of the side are having a red hot dip....that aside his pace is still something that we crave, especially on big grounds

If Gram was any more outside, he'd be running around on the concourse,

he hangs back to avoid body contact as much as possible even when he's the only St kilda player near the opposition player,

as soft as they come, an absolute show pony who wouldn't know a hard ball get even with a truckload of viagra,

his kicking is atrocious, needs to spend more time working on his foot skills as opposed to the tips in his hair,

one thing being an outside receiver, but fair dinkum sometimes, you have to have a fair dinkum go,

Gram shirks the contest, even when he's the closest St Kilda player to the ball and the opponent,

his softness stands out like a truckload of viagra, if that makes sense!

I agree!

And further more, he should also learn how to:

- kick it up the guts

- man up

- stop handballing and kick the thing

... and throw himself into the tackles, so that when the ball comes out, we've got no one to feed it off to.



whilst we respect the right of supporters to voice their opinions, to call a player soft is the lowest of lows, and says more about your pathetic existance than the player.

With all fairness of Grams good game on the weekend, the above comments are accurate.

Gram lacks intensity at the contested ball - has been a drawback in his game from day one.....

But I still love Gram because that is the football I would strive to play (not being sarcastic ) - Strickly outside!

Fair call, and no one doubts he's an outside player. But when you get a post like that, you have to wonder if people are doing it to stroke their egos or what?

If he's required toput his head over the ball and become an inside player as all the experts on here think he has to, then he'll either change his game, or get dropped again.

I just detest gutless people bagging players on a forum.

With all fairness Milton, I dont think anyone wants him to become an "inside" player. All theyway want is the one or two times a game when he is in the position where he is the only one available to put his head over it, do it.

And anyone criricising a player is no different to you criticising there opinion, IMO. None of us are standing face to face, easy to be a big man and all that, just like me now. Not having a go, just saying dont get sucked in to personal stuff.

[Milton66]

he is an out and out receiver I am getting a bit sick of the small step shuffles he does to avoid being first to the ball or to lay a tackle, it stands out like dogs bollocks when the rest of the side are having a red hot dip....that aside his pace is still something that we crave, especially on big grounds

If Gram was any more outside, he'd be running around on the concourse,

he hangs back to avoid body contact as much as possible even when he's the only St kilda player near the opposition player,

as soft as they come, an absolute show pony who wouldn't know a hard ball get even with a truckload of viagra,

his kicking is atrocious, needs to spend more time working on his foot skills as opposed to the tips in his hair,

one thing being an outside receiver, but fair dinkum sometimes, you have to have a fair dinkum go,

Gram shirks the contest, even when he's the closest St Kilda player to the ball and the opponent,

his softness stands out like a truckload of viagra, if that makes sense!

I agree!

And further more, he should also learn how to:

- kick it up the guts

- man up

- stop handballing and kick the thing

... and throw himself into the tackles, so that when the ball comes out, we've got no one to feed it off to.



whilst we respect the right of supporters to voice their opinions, to call a player soft is the lowest of lows, and says more about your pathetic existance than the player.

With all fairness of Grams good game on the weekend, the above comments are accurate.

Gram lacks intensity at the contested ball - has been a drawback in his game from day one.....

But I still love Gram because that is the football I would strive to play (not being sarcastic ) - Strickly outside!

Fair call, and no one doubts he's an outside player. But when you get a post like that, you have to wonder if people are doing it to stroke their egos or what?

If he's required toput his head over the ball and become an inside player as all the experts on here think he has to, then he'll either change his game, or get dropped again.

I just detest gutless people bagging players on a forum.

With all fairness Milton, I dont think anyone wants him to become an "inside" player. All theyway want is the one or two times a game when he is in the position where he is the only one available to put his head over it, do it.

And anyone criricising a player is no different to you criticising there opinion, IMO. None of us are standing face to face, easy to be a big man and all that, just like me now. Not having a go, just saying dont get sucked in to personal stuff.

Yep, fair enough.

You're not being a big man at all... just level headed and intelligent. My main criticism is towards the other poster.

[barks4eva]

With all fairness Milton, I dont think anyone wants him to become an "inside" player. All theyway want is the one or two times a game when he is in the position where he is the only one available to put his head over it, do it.

And anyone criricising a player is no different to you criticising there opinion, IMO. None of us are standing face to face, easy to be a big man and all that, just like me now. Not having a go, just saying dont get sucked in to personal stuff.

Yep, fair enough.

You're not being a big man at all... just level headed and intelligent. My main criticism is towards the other poster.

My point is exactly the same as Rexy, on the handful of times where Gram is the closet to the ball and opposition player, he does not go in hard, he shirks body contact, he does not put his body on the line,

I know he's an outside receiver, BUT there are times in a game where he like every other player in a similar situation, has to go in and commit to the contest instead of his tendency to spectate even when he happens to be the closet St Kilda player to the ball and opposition player.

He would become a far more valuable player if he committed to the contest like every other player in the team, when it is his turn to go, irrespective of him being outside or inside!

[Milton66]

With all fairness Milton, I dont think anyone wants him to become an "inside" player. All theyway want is the one or two times a game when he is in the position where he is the only one available to put his head over it, do it.

And anyone criricising a player is no different to you criticising there opinion, IMO. None of us are standing face to face, easy to be a big man and all that, just like me now. Not having a go, just saying dont get sucked in to personal stuff.

Yep, fair enough.

You're not being a big man at all... just level headed and intelligent. My main criticism is towards the other poster.

My point is exactly the same as Rexy, on the handful of times where Gram is the closet to the ball and opposition player, he does not go in hard, he shirks body contact, he does not put his body on the line,

I know he's an outside receiver, BUT there are times in a game where he like every other player in a similar situation, has to go in and commit to the contest instead of his tendency to spectate even when he happens to be the closet St Kilda player to the ball and opposition player.

He would become a far more valuable player if he committed to the contest like every other player in the team, when it is his turn to go, irrespective of him being outside or inside!

Paris Milton?? Oh is there no end to your amazing wit, Moron4Eva?

LOL, whereas Paris has the option to be f*****d... you simply are and have no choice.

How's the alternative costings for our move to Elsternwick park coming along?

[rexy]

Good pick up Hadnt even noticed that. You have to laugh, surely

[bigcarl]

despite missing a game, he's still number 2 in the league for inside 50s, just behind judd, ahead of pearce, goodes, sewell.

irreplaceable in the side, for mine - there's no-one else who does what he does. i agree that he can be a little soft but there's room for a couple of players like that in the side. everyone doesn't have to be luke ball.

agree.

his ability to move it quickly to our big forwards is vital and an area in which we were noticeably down during the match he missed against brisbane.

as you said, they can't all be shutdown artists. it takes all types.