Good Bye Billings

[older saint]

B.M reckons there's a lot of bulls**t written on here

Just like Vortex said in his post, don't confuse a player that is playing the role of an inside mid, with the discussion on JB. Billings main issue is that when there is heat, he either fumbles or he gets rid of the footy too early or his disposal is ineffective and he causes turnovers. It's not his job to win the footy at stoppages or at centre clearance but there'll be situations in a game when the footy is loose and the heat is on. He needs to lift in these moments

And...If I was older saint and I was trying to support the pro Billings crowd, I wouldn't be bringing DeGoey or Petracca into the conversation

2 years ago all we heard was Petracca was lazy and needed to be traded. Then last year it was DeGoey, Billings is our fans version of this.

Neither support the retain or support to leave, just saying value is what will determine the outcome.

[Yorkeys]

I though BS was what a forum is for. If we want quality comment we go to Damien Barratt, Robbo and that Brown chappy don't we. Not that I've read them for quite a while. Prefer what is on here.

Apologies Caroline, never thought your contributions good enough to be even classified as BS.

[outside66]

Why do posters think we can trade him?

We can't.

He is a restricted free agent.

He can sign with us

OR

He can field offers from other clubs.

If he accepts an offer from another club, THEN we have the option of matching that offer to automatically keep him.

IF we do not match the offer, he goes. NO TRADE.

The AFL then decides the draft pick compensation which is UNLIKELY to be immediately after our first round pick and as we have no second round pick (previously traded) they may give us an end of second round pick or if we are lucky - lower. A terrible return for a very very good AFL footballer with 100+ games left in him.

BUT wait there is another twist - IF we also pick up an unresticted or restricted free agent ... then I believe that we get NOTHING for Billings.

In an environment where the Salary cap is tight due to covid reductions, most caps are tight, but of most clubs other than the bottom 4 we probably have the most wiggle room with players returing or going onto reduced contracts.

Billings is a must keep for now - even if on a 2 year contract with a view to keeping or trading him after next year.

Definitely can do a trade in this situation. If we choose to match an offer but the player does not want to stay then the other club would need to trade to get the player across. Examples of clubs matching restricted FA's would be Jeremy Cameron and Patrick Dangerfield etc

That's the art of Brinkmanship. Both Adelaide & GWS were prepared to pay what Geelong were offering. Geelong wanted them bad enough to pay with picks as well as their salary.

Do you think St Kilda would be prepared to have that bluff called? He's worth $600 max, St Kilda can't afford to be caught paying $750 if the other club does not want to offer up their own picks.

Providing we don't want to lose Billings, if another club offered less than what we believe he's worth (Say 600 as you put it - or an amount that will see us be compensated with less than we'd like) then we would match it. If another club offered more than we are prepared to pay then we simply wouldn't match it and would accept the compensation.

[Vortex]

You seem to be introducing some contradiction though and it's confusing, can you give some examples of the type of contests he never pulls out of? Sounds like you are describing an inside mid to me and I mostly see Billings running forward of contests to get on the end of distribution.

Can you please explain this question? We've posters stating JB shirks contests, yet cannot give examples. Now we have the question asking for examples of the type of contests he never pulls out of.

Surely if no one can give an example of a contest he shirks then the answer to your question is the same or simply "football contests". Isn't it?

If a backman (McKenzie / Webster) or a forward (Membrey / Lonie) never pull out of contests it does not make them an inside mid.

DMac, Webster and Members illustrate the point perfectly I feel, 3 players who have a reputation for taking their turn, and 3 players who have been hurt for doing so. They definitely aren't inside mids but they will have a go at winning a contest when it is their turn.

Then your point changed.

Again, when has Billings not taken his turn?

I'm not sure what you mean by my point has changed. Billings didn't take a turn against the Port. Was MIA in a game where leaders were needed and in a game that meant a terrible lot and was extremely winnable. He struggles in those games, possibly could be labled a down hill skier especially against top 4 sides, the last memorable time was the Lions game last year. Similar circumstances, i.e. top for team, a winnable game for us, didn't give 4 quarters as a leader in a crunch game. I'd keep him on the list but only at about $450k.

We need to be creative with our recruiting and so the space in the salary cap is needed and we can find another HF flanker for much cheaper with similar output I feel...as well change the current culture which includes too many players who cant give 4 quarters consistently.

[Ghost Like]

So Vortex, your version of not taking a turn appears to mean he had a poor game. It's nothing to do with the adage of committing your body to a contest when it's your turn.

Enlighten me with the HF flankers that are out there who are pulling in the same stats for much cheaper. I'll buy two, no make that 3 in case one gets injured.

If we can keep him for $600K or less then lets. I do not want the late 2nd round / early 3rd round draft pick that will generate.

If you want to free up the salary cap, retire Hannebery. At least Billings commits to the field injured, we get something for the money, just not as much as we'd like.

[SaintDippa]

Like Battle, to this date don't know his strengths. We've seemed to play him as a wing floater who bobs up occasionally as a catch and chip link player and occasional goal/point scorer.
Does he have the engine as a centre bounce run-with mid?
Permanent small fwd crumber/leader into f50 space?
Is his another career in a Sainter flat line who thrives at another club?
Is he another who is a TAC monster but who is only AFL average?
I'd do everything to keep (unlikely as still unsigned) at 550/600 or hope a few clubs see potential (Ess/Haw/Geel) and bidding results in a late R1er.

[Shaggy]

JB’s early season form was excellent. Second best to Jack Steele.

His form has fallen away since tearing his plantar fascia in the Richmond warm up.

Apparently he cannot train and is clearly hampered. Rowan Marshall tried to play on with similar complaint but has ended up missing 5 weeks.

Personally I think JB is a tough nut to play through it. Apparently it is extremely painful and both Banger and G-Train also really suffered with the injury.

In terms of on field toughness I have seen him back into enough packs to win my respect. I broke ribs and was concussed doing similar and still cringe whenever I see a player do it. JB does it more than most.

He does stand off the hard ball get at times. But it is clearly a set play where JB is the designated receiver. This is not primary school playing stacks on the ball.

I would hate to lose JB. He is in our best when not hampered by injury and should be close to his peak. Losing him or Luke Dunstan now would be very Gold Coast like.

[SinCitySainter]

He doesn't miss many games and has shown he is capable of playing on regardless of niggling injuries.
When fully fit undoubtedly in our best half a dozen .
We should aim to keep him unless the offer we have to match is so significant that we would need to sell the farm to retain.
The good news is that because of his resilience we can offer a decent length contract say 4 years as he is capable of playing well into that period.
That means that any offer higher than ours will need to be a pretty high bid to make it worth moving.
If we don't keep him he will go to a Richmond or a Geelong for similar money to what we offer or North for a grandfather bid.

[Vortex]

So Vortex, your version of not taking a turn appears to mean he had a poor game. It's nothing to do with the adage of committing your body to a contest when it's your turn.

Enlighten me with the HF flankers that are out there who are pulling in the same stats for much cheaper. I'll buy two, no make that 3 in case one gets injured.

If we can keep him for $600K or less then lets. I do not want the late 2nd round / early 3rd round draft pick that will generate.

If you want to free up the salary cap, retire Hannebery. At least Billings commits to the field injured, we get something for the money, just not as much as we'd like.

Absolutely it means having a poor game, when you are a senior player, you need to influence the game in some way and especially if you are having a poor game.

If he's playing injured then his poor games are understandable against the backdrop of a terrible run with injuries this year and the lack of depth our list provides and so you have to cut him some slack if that is his reason, i.e. being selected by Ratts knowing he will produce the signifcantly poor game he did agaist Port because there are no other options currently. It's strange but the past 2 seasons have been strange in themselves and I continually have to remind myself the way clubs are being run presently is anything but normal.

[B.M]

How was he 2 weeks ago?

[IluvHarvey]

I for one hope he stays. I think he is a vital cog in the team.
I also believe some of the commentary around him on this forum is uncalled for and disgusting.
He appears to be an easy target purely based off the fact that Bont was picked after him.
Pathetic mentality.

[MC Gusto]

I for one hope he stays. I think he is a vital cog in the team.
I also believe some of the commentary around him on this forum is uncalled for and disgusting.
He appears to be an easy target purely based off the fact that Bont was picked after him.
Pathetic mentality.

Hear hear

[skeptic]

JB’s early season form was excellent. Second best to Jack Steele.

His form has fallen away since tearing his plantar fascia in the Richmond warm up.

Apparently he cannot train and is clearly hampered. Rowan Marshall tried to play on with similar complaint but has ended up missing 5 weeks.

Personally I think JB is a tough nut to play through it. Apparently it is extremely painful and both Banger and G-Train also really suffered with the injury.

In terms of on field toughness I have seen him back into enough packs to win my respect. I broke ribs and was concussed doing similar and still cringe whenever I see a player do it. JB does it more than most.

He does stand off the hard ball get at times. But it is clearly a set play where JB is the designated receiver. This is not primary school playing stacks on the ball.

I would hate to lose JB. He is in our best when not hampered by injury and should be close to his peak. Losing him or Luke Dunstan now would be very Gold Coast like.

Agree on all fronts though I’ve softened a little bit on my Dunstan stance... his opponent was BOG last week or close to it but that’s a different debate.

I kind of wish that if a surgical option is available, the club just bites the bullet with these types of injuries and does what’s best for the player in these scenarios. 100% agree he’s playing through injury and it’s stifled his early season form.
Billings is doing well all things considered but I REALLY REALLY don’t think either the club or Billings has benefited by the play through it approach. He’s not performing as well, copping bucketloads of criticism and the club isn’t winning that much more.

More and more I’m coming round to the... unless it’s September, the long term approach is the only correct one

[SaintJohno]

I for one hope he stays. I think he is a vital cog in the team.
I also believe some of the commentary around him on this forum is uncalled for and disgusting.
He appears to be an easy target purely based off the fact that Bont was picked after him.
Pathetic mentality.

I can't remember seeing anyone who wants him to leave on this, or any other thread. I think everyone wants him to stay, just not on a 'bont like' salary. I don't think it's 'pathetic' to discuss the merits of a player and where they fit in our salary cap. I'd love him to stay.

[bangaulegend]

I for one hope he stays. I think he is a vital cog in the team.
I also believe some of the commentary around him on this forum is uncalled for and disgusting.
He appears to be an easy target purely based off the fact that Bont was picked after him.
Pathetic mentality.

I can't remember seeing anyone who wants him to leave on this, or any other thread. I think everyone wants him to stay, just not on a 'bont like' salary. I don't think it's 'pathetic' to discuss the merits of a player and where they fit in our salarey cap. I'd love him to stay.

[Impatient Sainter]

Billings keen to stay, says something about the quality of the kid because he will be taking less dollars.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/651360/out- ... free-agent

[shanegrambeau]

I saw Billings at the beginning of the season, on half-back flank, running sideways, launching himself at an awkward angle, making himself vulnerable as he lurched almost over the boundary, to snatch a sharp overhead mark against the flow of play. It’s just a routine piece of play for many professional footballers and any less might not be tolerated, but I have seen far, far worse this year. Last Saturday included. I said to myself that he may be paid like a prince, and have been accoladed in the past, but he is having a crack now. Billings of 2017 is no longer - and it was mostly potential anyway. I think he might be like a Luke Ball - a different kind of player, for sure, but a quality guy and a skilled and smart player definitely worth keeping. He’s miles above some others running around the forward line at present. He’ll have his quiet games, but he presents a threat. I say keep him.

[magnifisaint]

Looks like he's going to stay. The club wants him to stay and he'd like to stay. I say good!
That's a pity for some of you guys

[The_Dud]

Looks like he's going to stay. The club wants him to stay and he'd like to stay. I say good!
That's a pity for some of you guys

I've always been of the opinion that unless we get a top 10 compo pick for him then he should stay, so I think it's good news.

[sunsaint]

Looks like he's going to stay. The club wants him to stay and he'd like to stay. I say good!
That's a pity for some of you guys

so the offers werent "that" tempting? Clearly offers not in the same ballpark as his previous StK contract or did we just just jump early & pay overs again ?
questions questions questions
Im thinking EFC's contract extension forJake Stringer was a hefty one

[Vortex]

Billings keen to stay, says something about the quality of the kid because he will be taking less dollars.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/651360/out- ... free-agent

How much less? What is the dollar value of the contract on the table?

[Gershwin]

Billings keen to stay, says something about the quality of the kid because he will be taking less dollars.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/651360/out- ... free-agent

How much less? What is the dollar value of the contract on the table?

Shouldn't get any more than what Sinclair has accepted.

[B.M]

How do we actually know what he’s getting paid now??
And furthermore
How do we know what his next contract will be?!

[Gershwin]

How do we actually know what he’s getting paid now??
And furthermore
How do we know what his next contract will be?!

Apparently he is on very good money. His next contract should be on lesser money.

[B.M]

Apparently

So we actually don’t know?