Saints players not enjoying it, football "depression&qu

[ausfatcat]

hog wash all of it


same thing was said last year and the year before, if any team in the afl doesn't have 100% concentration they will be blown away.

[gringo]

I'm am not enjoying loosing.

[Kate]

What a load of crap.

Thet look like they're enjoying themselves when they are singing the club song.

[starsign]

top 6 /bottom 6
.....crappolla!!

I still believe that the old adage overides it...

ie "a champion team will always beat a team of champions"

....just think if you were so good and star-studded across the board and could hardly differentiate your so-called bottom six from your top six ( and chuck in here, if you will, a hypothetical team of 22 would be or could be ex-Brownlow medalists)

it wouldn't mean a Blights Tossbag if they did not perform collectively enough for their TEAM to beat any other on any given day!!

Manangatang Magoos if you like!

[thejiggingsaint]

Funny, when I was working three shifts trying to feed a wife two kids and myself it wasn't always "fun" I didn't get paid for having "fun" and no one ever told me that it was going to be otherwise. how about OUR enjoyment???? last friday night? I don't know how those players have got the nerve to pick up their pay!!!!!!!

[ralphsmith]

Does anyone feel the original poster may have been onto something.

Funny I felt the same way last year, at not such a dissimilar time.

As it turned out the saints switched it on again and started with the relentless pressure and desire once more.

[Teflon]

I read tonight in the train rag MX: Collingwood and Malthouse double page spread all about how their belief in their "system" and players who perform "roles" is now their focus to maintaining what Blake Caracella called "The Box" in reference to their game plan. Malthouse goes on to say that the days of players being picked over other players purely on ability are over - according to him, Collingwood adopted "team" over individuals. For example, Malthouse went on to say Medhurst as a player against Blair was more experienced, hard bodied with a few more tricks ....BUT Blair was selected each week and along with Mcaffer, Wellingham etc because they "bought into the system"....sound familiar?????? aka they play their roles in the team.

I got the feel while reading this that not only has our game plan but our 2009 language (we talked systems not so long ago..) been well and truly ripped off and no one has publicly really ackowledged this. Sure, Malthouse tells all "his game plan" was years in the making....reality is they adopted the fwd press in earnest only in 2010 (I suspect after studying us ad nauseum...Buckley was already a Lyon fan..).

Point is, no Saints player found it "not fun" when we won 19 straight,no fan did and the media marvelled. Any talk of "stifling players" and it not being fun is horseshyte. Winners are grinners - thats all there is and you do what you can to achieve that.

[saintbrat]

Buckley in interview earlier this year said they changed plans at rd 15 last year...


after being beaten by saints twice- NAB and Rd 3 and maybe finally asking part time coach and new player...???

[Dr Spaceman]

I read tonight in the train rag MX: Collingwood and Malthouse double page spread all about how their belief in their "system" and players who perform "roles" is now their focus to maintaining what Blake Caracella called "The Box" in reference to their game plan. Malthouse goes on to say that the days of players being picked over other players purely on ability are over - according to him, Collingwood adopted "team" over individuals. For example, Malthouse went on to say Medhurst as a player against Blair was more experienced, hard bodied with a few more tricks ....BUT Blair was selected each week and along with Mcaffer, Wellingham etc because they "bought into the system"....sound familiar?????? aka they play their roles in the team.

I got the feel while reading this that not only has our game plan but our 2009 language (we talked systems not so long ago..) been well and truly ripped off and no one has publicly really ackowledged this. Sure, Malthouse tells all "his game plan" was years in the making....reality is they adopted the fwd press in earnest only in 2010 (I suspect after studying us ad nauseum...Buckley was already a Lyon fan..).

Point is, no Saints player found it "not fun" when we won 19 straight,no fan did and the media marvelled. Any talk of "stifling players" and it not being fun is horseshyte. Winners are grinners - thats all there is and you do what you can to achieve that.

And that's the other point. If you don't like your job you look for another one.

But if all the other teams, or at least all the other successful teams, are playing with the same type of full on, accountable, intensive game plan, whatareya gonna do

[Teflon]

Buckley in interview earlier this year said they changed plans at rd 15 last year...


after being beaten by saints twice- NAB and Rd 3 and maybe finally asking part time coach and new player...???

Exactly...but again, no one in the media is saying: "Malthouse....we ripped Saints off something stupid"

[saintbrat]

Buckley in interview earlier this year said they changed plans at rd 15 last year...


after being beaten by saints twice- NAB and Rd 3 and maybe finally asking part time coach and new player...???

Exactly...but again, no one in the media is saying: "Malthouse....we ripped Saints off something stupid"

heaven forbid the Saints be given credit for something....

[Moods]

I read tonight in the train rag MX: Collingwood and Malthouse double page spread all about how their belief in their "system" and players who perform "roles" is now their focus to maintaining what Blake Caracella called "The Box" in reference to their game plan. Malthouse goes on to say that the days of players being picked over other players purely on ability are over - according to him, Collingwood adopted "team" over individuals. For example, Malthouse went on to say Medhurst as a player against Blair was more experienced, hard bodied with a few more tricks ....BUT Blair was selected each week and along with Mcaffer, Wellingham etc because they "bought into the system"....sound familiar?????? aka they play their roles in the team.

I got the feel while reading this that not only has our game plan but our 2009 language (we talked systems not so long ago..) been well and truly ripped off and no one has publicly really ackowledged this. Sure, Malthouse tells all "his game plan" was years in the making....reality is they adopted the fwd press in earnest only in 2010 (I suspect after studying us ad nauseum...Buckley was already a Lyon fan..).

Point is, no Saints player found it "not fun" when we won 19 straight,no fan did and the media marvelled. Any talk of "stifling players" and it not being fun is horseshyte. Winners are grinners - thats all there is and you do what you can to achieve that.

+1 - been saying the exact same thing for ages. Malthouse portrays himself as some tactical genius by talking about military attacks and history books. Due to my wife being a fanatical pies fan I see nearly as many pies games live as I do saints games. Malthouse was a fanatical old school, man on man type coach up until last year. RL changed the way footy was played in 2009, and should have been lauded as the genius. 09 was our year and we fluffed it. 2010, we were inferior to the pies and he somehow manufactured a way to make us competitive against them when no-one else could in that drawn GF. Even then he pulled Malthouse's pants down I reckon tactically.

I'm not bagging Malthouse b/c I reckon he is a great coach, and credit to him for being able to be man enough to change his philosophy. Anyone who has played footy will tell you it's great fun playing well and getting a kick - but the most fun comes from winning.

I will be extremely disappointed if the saints let Lyon go in the next 5 years. Whatever happens, I am convinced that our poor recent showings has nothing to do with the coach or the nonsense about an unenjoyable game plan.

[asiu]

.... we ripped Saints off something stupid

most of the saints supporters havn't figured it out yet either

talking about the sharpest knives in the kitchen aint got nothing to do with us

trouble was , they didn't rip us off ... we handed it over on a premiership platter

here , have yourselves a ball to go with your hudgton

last year , they sorted out jones
last year they took on milnes headspace
last year they cakewalked away with our flag


we gave it away.
you can give the saints credit for that !

[Teflon]

I read tonight in the train rag MX: Collingwood and Malthouse double page spread all about how their belief in their "system" and players who perform "roles" is now their focus to maintaining what Blake Caracella called "The Box" in reference to their game plan. Malthouse goes on to say that the days of players being picked over other players purely on ability are over - according to him, Collingwood adopted "team" over individuals. For example, Malthouse went on to say Medhurst as a player against Blair was more experienced, hard bodied with a few more tricks ....BUT Blair was selected each week and along with Mcaffer, Wellingham etc because they "bought into the system"....sound familiar?????? aka they play their roles in the team.

I got the feel while reading this that not only has our game plan but our 2009 language (we talked systems not so long ago..) been well and truly ripped off and no one has publicly really ackowledged this. Sure, Malthouse tells all "his game plan" was years in the making....reality is they adopted the fwd press in earnest only in 2010 (I suspect after studying us ad nauseum...Buckley was already a Lyon fan..).

Point is, no Saints player found it "not fun" when we won 19 straight,no fan did and the media marvelled. Any talk of "stifling players" and it not being fun is horseshyte. Winners are grinners - thats all there is and you do what you can to achieve that.

+1 - been saying the exact same thing for ages. Malthouse portrays himself as some tactical genius by talking about military attacks and history books. Due to my wife being a fanatical pies fan I see nearly as many pies games live as I do saints games. Malthouse was a fanatical old school, man on man type coach up until last year. RL changed the way footy was played in 2009, and should have been lauded as the genius. 09 was our year and we fluffed it. 2010, we were inferior to the pies and he somehow manufactured a way to make us competitive against them when no-one else could in that drawn GF. Even then he pulled Malthouse's pants down I reckon tactically.

I'm not bagging Malthouse b/c I reckon he is a great coach, and credit to him for being able to be man enough to change his philosophy. Anyone who has played footy will tell you it's great fun playing well and getting a kick - but the most fun comes from winning.

I will be extremely disappointed if the saints let Lyon go in the next 5 years. Whatever happens, I am convinced that our poor recent showings has nothing to do with the coach or the nonsense about an unenjoyable game plan.

Yes, I too laugh at Malthouses attempts to be the AFL's answer to Churchill....they'll wheel him out this ANZAC day and mightY mick will "fight on the beaches..."blah blah.

Dont get me right.....I detest the lying, puffed up toad....but can he coach?...er...yep.

Perhaps the biggest thing in that article that I failed to mention and my ONLY criticism of Ross Lyon, is that Malthouse and the Pies have already committed to continue to blooding their kids even in their strongest line ups now......the point being...WHEN these kids are called into the side..."the system" doesnt miss a beat. This is important - and we fluffed this a bit I reckon. What better time than 2009+ to fast track development of youngsters and really get some game time into them?....I mean 2009 we'd won 19 straight..top 4 was done weeks out...surrounded by Hayes, Riewoldt and co Im certain some of these kids could really have played a tad more than they did.....

Anyway, I agree Lyon is the man to take us fwd and he will.

[satchmo]

Dont get me right.....I detest the lying, puffed up toad....but can he coach?...er...yep.

Fortunately they are giving him the arse at the end of the year, and installing the only twat in the place without a premiership medallion.

leon>nathan!

[SainterK]

.... we ripped Saints off something stupid

most of the saints supporters havn't figured it out yet either

talking about the sharpest knives in the kitchen aint got nothing to do with us

trouble was , they didn't rip us off ... we handed it over on a premiership platter

here , have yourselves a ball to go with your hudgton

last year , they sorted out jones
last year they took on milnes headspace
last year they cakewalked away with our flag


we gave it away.
you can give the saints credit for that !

We didn't give them a Ball, he desperately wanted to go there Gaz.

[mbogo]

First of all, when we're playing well we're pretty exciting I think, particularly when we get the quick handballs going - we're the best in the comp in that department IMO.

But it was our industry that gave us our edge last season. What we lack in pace and skill we more than make up for in discpline and graft - at least that was the case last year.

Winning is always fun. Losing is never fun.

When we were stringing those wins together last year I don't think you would've found one player who wasn't having fun out there.

Remember, this is the type of football we're capable of -

Well all said and done here - but the re-raising of this chat had me look up that video - above - and then the one that followed (and comes up after it) was the epic fail one 2009 - extremely upsetting - and I have not even watched a replay!!! Talk about f****** MISSES and missed opportunities - 13, 44, 11 - have to agree with the title - we almost won - but really we did all we could to throw it away. Massive choking - well - three times really - and I am including the first half of the drawn GF as well. Only the players can answer this - not sure the coach can do it for them. Funny thing is the Coll kids did not go near to choking. I do not know why - it was their first GF.

[Sainterman]

First of all, when we're playing well we're pretty exciting I think, particularly when we get the quick handballs going - we're the best in the comp in that department IMO.

But it was our industry that gave us our edge last season. What we lack in pace and skill we more than make up for in discpline and graft - at least that was the case last year.

Winning is always fun. Losing is never fun.

When we were stringing those wins together last year I don't think you would've found one player who wasn't having fun out there.

Remember, this is the type of football we're capable of -

Well all said and done here - but the re-raising of this chat had me look up that video - above - and then the one that followed (and comes up after it) was the epic fail one 2009 - extremely upsetting - and I have not even watched a replay!!! Talk about f****** MISSES and missed opportunities - 13, 44, 11 - have to agree with the title - we almost won - but really we did all we could to throw it away. Massive choking - well - three times really - and I am including the first half of the drawn GF as well. Only the players can answer this - not sure the coach can do it for them. Funny thing is the Coll kids did not go near to choking. I do not know why - it was their first GF.

I think Collingwood did choke in GF1, and I remember felling that way on the day, as it was happening. The longer it went the worse it got for them. Remember they too missed plenty of shots in GF1 and could have put us away. When we came at them they dropped their heads and so did their supporters (many of whom had the Collingwood chant going in the first half!).

I reckon the experience in GF1 really helped them win the second one! It is a great shame there was no extra time, I really think we had them covered that day. I guess we'll never know.

The winners always get to write history!

[Moods]

First of all, when we're playing well we're pretty exciting I think, particularly when we get the quick handballs going - we're the best in the comp in that department IMO.

But it was our industry that gave us our edge last season. What we lack in pace and skill we more than make up for in discpline and graft - at least that was the case last year.

Winning is always fun. Losing is never fun.

When we were stringing those wins together last year I don't think you would've found one player who wasn't having fun out there.

Remember, this is the type of football we're capable of -

Well all said and done here - but the re-raising of this chat had me look up that video - above - and then the one that followed (and comes up after it) was the epic fail one 2009 - extremely upsetting - and I have not even watched a replay!!! Talk about f****** MISSES and missed opportunities - 13, 44, 11 - have to agree with the title - we almost won - but really we did all we could to throw it away. Massive choking - well - three times really - and I am including the first half of the drawn GF as well. Only the players can answer this - not sure the coach can do it for them. Funny thing is the Coll kids did not go near to choking. I do not know why - it was their first GF.

You don't reckon Blair choked in the third 1/4 when the pressure was really on? I do. What about THomas not wanting to take responsibility and passing to Blair in the first place? Sidebottom spraying a gettable snap in the last? Then we have Goddard, Lenny, and Milney calmly slotting set shots in the last 1/4.

I don't reckon we choked in the first half of GF1. I reckon we were under siege and were hanging on for dear life against the best team in it last year. To turn it around at half time, for mine, was remarkable.

[mbogo]

Yep it was a remarkable comeback - sadly they still kicked the bloody goal that drew it. We looked pretty shell-shocked in the first half.
I just hope we can find some of what we had in the first half and have better composure if we get there again.
But no matter which way you look at it - one half of good footy in two GFs last year is nothing to rave about.

[spert]

We only got close thanks to Hayes and Goddard realising the intensity required to win a GF and lifting to that level, if the team had lifted overall, it would have been a different story- good teams win premierships and in the replay Collingwood displayed that while most of our team looked like they had been out on the turps the night before.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I read tonight in the train rag MX: Collingwood and Malthouse double page spread all about how their belief in their "system" and players who perform "roles" is now their focus to maintaining what Blake Caracella called "The Box" in reference to their game plan. Malthouse goes on to say that the days of players being picked over other players purely on ability are over - according to him, Collingwood adopted "team" over individuals. For example, Malthouse went on to say Medhurst as a player against Blair was more experienced, hard bodied with a few more tricks ....BUT Blair was selected each week and along with Mcaffer, Wellingham etc because they "bought into the system"....sound familiar?????? aka they play their roles in the team.

I got the feel while reading this that not only has our game plan but our 2009 language (we talked systems not so long ago..) been well and truly ripped off and no one has publicly really ackowledged this. Sure, Malthouse tells all "his game plan" was years in the making....reality is they adopted the fwd press in earnest only in 2010 (I suspect after studying us ad nauseum...Buckley was already a Lyon fan..).

Point is, no Saints player found it "not fun" when we won 19 straight,no fan did and the media marvelled. Any talk of "stifling players" and it not being fun is horseshyte. Winners are grinners - thats all there is and you do what you can to achieve that.

+1 - been saying the exact same thing for ages. Malthouse portrays himself as some tactical genius by talking about military attacks and history books. Due to my wife being a fanatical pies fan I see nearly as many pies games live as I do saints games. Malthouse was a fanatical old school, man on man type coach up until last year. RL changed the way footy was played in 2009, and should have been lauded as the genius. 09 was our year and we fluffed it. 2010, we were inferior to the pies and he somehow manufactured a way to make us competitive against them when no-one else could in that drawn GF. Even then he pulled Malthouse's pants down I reckon tactically.

I'm not bagging Malthouse b/c I reckon he is a great coach, and credit to him for being able to be man enough to change his philosophy. Anyone who has played footy will tell you it's great fun playing well and getting a kick - but the most fun comes from winning.

I will be extremely disappointed if the saints let Lyon go in the next 5 years. Whatever happens, I am convinced that our poor recent showings has nothing to do with the coach or the nonsense about an unenjoyable game plan.

Not to disagree, as the Saints certainly made their contribution to the style that the Magpies play today, but this is a big oversimplification - how much credit do we really deserve for Malthouse gameplan?

In 2009, we'd typically play a 17-18 man 3qtr press. That structure's fingerprints are all over the magpies forward press which often ends at the halfway mark... but there's plenty else going on...

Collingwood's rebound game was under development for years prior - they led the league in scores from turnovers in 2009 as well as 2010. The difference in 2010 was it wasn't their only avenue. Similarly, the allong the wing style of play wasn't ripped from us, Collingwood were getting criticised for it at the same time we were being lauded for the same thing.

The full team zones were successful for Hawthorn in 2008, how much do we owe to that structural adaptation?

Floodbusting handball's were used by West Coast to attack the Sydney crowds - how much do Geelong owe to West Coast? How much did the Hawthorn cluster owe to Sydney's onball floods? What did Sydney owe to Port Adelaide and the 6 man forward zone on kick ins? What did Port Adelaide owe to the West Coast Eagles loose man tactics under a certain Mick Malthouse?

Hawthorn won a flag on a single innovation. St Kilda almost did the same. One of the things that excites me right now about AFL is watching teams attempting to innovate (Richmond and their bomb the middle to run the corridor is certainly exciting).

Isaac Newton once said to Robert Hooke that if he had seen further than most men it was by standing on the shoulders of giants. Credit where due, Lyon deserves praise, Malthouse is a premiership coach (again).

[Moods]

Of course the pies won their flag on their own. They took our game style and did it better than us. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with, is Malthouse talking about how he was devising this style for the past 4 years. I reckon that's crap. Not one team could get close to the cats - especially the pies. The hawks were EXTREMELY fortunate that the cats couldn't kick straight in 08. Let's be honest - that game (GF) should have been over at half time. The only game style that looked like breaking the cats down was ours. I reckon Malthouse realised that, and the one thing he was being honest about is that he was trying to find a style to beat the cats. He realised that WE should have won the 09 GF. As with the cats in 08, it was us that dominated much of the game and poor kicking let us down in that game (09 GF). He was smart enough to realise that the methodology we employed was spot-on, and went to work in 2010 to select players who could play that way.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Of course the pies won their flag on their own. They took our game style and did it better than us. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with, is Malthouse talking about how he was devising this style for the past 4 years. I reckon that's crap. Not one team could get close to the cats - especially the pies. The hawks were EXTREMELY fortunate that the cats couldn't kick straight in 08. Let's be honest - that game (GF) should have been over at half time. The only game style that looked like breaking the cats down was ours. I reckon Malthouse realised that, and the one thing he was being honest about is that he was trying to find a style to beat the cats. He realised that WE should have won the 09 GF. As with the cats in 08, it was us that dominated much of the game and poor kicking let us down in that game (09 GF). He was smart enough to realise that the methodology we employed was spot-on, and went to work in 2010 to select players who could play that way.

I think the record tends to back Malthouse up. The forward press is a highly visible and highly important addition to their approach, but ti fit directly with everything else they did.

I think you may be forgetting that a 8-0 Geelong came up against the Pies in 2008 and got smashed by nearly 100 points. Similarly, the Pies came within a goal of knocking off the rampaging Cats of '07 in the Prelim. Until Preliminary final 2009, the Pies (along with hawthorn) were a bogey team for Geelong.

It is fact that the Cats knocked the '09 Pies out in the prelim in destructive fashion. The '09 finals saw both St Kilda and Geelong effectively neuter the Collingwood game by denying them rebound opportunities. The Pies responded by recruiting clearance winners (Jolly & Ball) and implementing the forward press (create turnovers).

Malthouse is now a 3 time premiership coach with and excellent opportunity to make it 4. Looking at the results of 2007 through 2010's evolution could be random noise... or, we can respect that it's probable that more has gone into the way the Pies play today than just watching tapes of St Kilda 2009 and saying "that's a good idea". Credit to Lyon... but I hope when the Saints look at what the current Premiers do to learn from it they don't assume they already know.

[PJ]

I will be extremely disappointed if the saints let Lyon go in the next 5 years. Whatever happens, I am convinced that our poor recent showings has nothing to do with the coach or the nonsense about an unenjoyable game plan.

Agree almost completely except where you say the coach has nothing to do with poor recent form. All at St.Kilda must buy into responsibility over form or it becomes easy to start the blame game - then we really are sunk.