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Yes not good enough indeed....your lack of support that is.
Yes we had an off day, and we are all disappointed...but despite the crap your are hurling Lyon does a lot more right than wrong and given the state of the list he inherited which while capable was in clear decline he has done a pretty good job.
Question for you....in the hundred odd years that the Saints have been playing how many of them have we been as well positioned as we are now for a crack at the flag????
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
Collingwood got three early goals from uncharacteristic Sam Fisher mistakes and an incorrect holding the ball decision against Zac Dawson. At half time, had those three instances not occurred, there would have been nothing in it. They got a few goals in the second half where the spill of the ball went their way (look at McCaffer's goals) from defensive punches.
Admittedly, we were flat, indecisive and poor by foot, yet Geary had the chance to put us within 4 goals with 10 minutes to play and anything could have happenced beyond that point.
It was the worst we have played in a long time. The kicking efficiency was our worst in years. Riewoldt and Gram are struggling with match fitness (and form). Gwilt should have started in defense, and we sorely missed Dal Santo in the middle. Replacing him with Dempster was a selection error which unbalanced the team and gave us nothing.
With everything that went wrong, had we kicked accuratley for goal in the third quarter, we still could have pinched it.
No need to panic, but some interesting selection decisions face the coach over the nest few weeks. McQualter, Pattison, Dempster, McEvoy, Armitage, Steven & co. will be fighting it off for a few spots in the team.
samoht wrote:This game meant more to Collingwood than us .. it was pretty obvious.
Also we had a couple of underdone players (Gram andRoo) plus Dal missed and some of our top players had average games - yet had we kicked straight (we missed some easy shots) we would have been a lot closer.
We could lose to the Hawks too before we start playing back into top form... and that would still be okay - we just need to be right for the finals and the big one.
considering your mob have a run home of the hawks, essendon, port, north, richmond and adelaide i think a top four spot is fairly secure.
Only time we ever hear from you on this forum is to critisise and try to pump up how great your football knowledge is over everyone else.
Oh BTW no excuses. We were right royally pumped by a team that pressurised us all game.
Incredible how someone cant give credit to the wonderful display the opposition put on.
Incredible.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
I thought the game was hilarious, which is a strange response from me (for those who know how fanatical and one eyed I am).
Truth is, we couldn't have played much worse, yet, had we kicked 6 or 7 very gettable shots on goal, we still could have beaten the Pies.
It was just one of those ugly games, both teams weren't overly impressive, I couldn't believe the number of times Collingwood players kicked a mongrel punt forward off the side of the boot, only to land on the chest of another Pies player. Was becoming laughable at one stage, well actually, I laughed through the entire second half.
Yes, decisions went against us at crucial stages, but put simply we just had a shocker. We ALL had a shocker... worst game St Kilda have played in over two years.
BUT, at the end of the day, what is the difference between possie 1 and 4 come seasons end if they are all Victorian sides? Very little, we are as good as there now, and I'd rather have a shocker in July as opposed to a shocker in September.
One thing and one thing only was true to form on the day and that was the mentality and nature of the majority of the Filth's feral supporters. On a side note, how much does a vocal crowd influence the umpire, not just holding the ball decisions, but also things like calling play on from a mark and things like that. Didn't change the game result, just an observation.
So let them have their moment in the sun in July, as the result meant nothing to the boys and next week, we'll bounce back. For those who want to give up on us after one game, how long exactly have you barracked for the mighty sainters?
Strength through Loyalty
Go those mighty Sainters!!
I think when dal goes out of the team on the day it blows out some of the structures. Its hard to get stability when one of your best players is out on the day.. so they probably lost a bit of the structural match ups. Some of these players though really have to trust their kicking abilities because a lot of the time they put pressure on their teammates resulting on turnovers. That's why we have so many turnovers, because they don't attack and expect a handful (the good kickers) to spot up a target. Jones definitely needs to do something about his game because im pretty sure when he has the ball the opposition usually spreads to the players near him because they know he'll most likely handball to them.
Its frustrating to watch because theres probably someone up the field thats free and theres enough time to get it to them but we seem to just handball around to a guy who can actually hit a target.
I can't remember what quarter but i remember jones marking it 65 metres out waiting for a teammate to come across to give the ball to.. by then the collingwood players are already flooded our forward line. We need to get it in quick because we barely did it yesterday.
I feel so much better today that I am convinced we just had an 'off day'
and that we will win in September.....I will just wait until then...and we will beat the pies, cats and Dogs....and the main danger - Hawthorn
Relieved now....
I had the bad opinion we had several cracks in our team being opened up, shown up and it (the loss) had a dual effect of denting and giving confidence....silly me....we just had an off day....
No Dal Santo, the umpires, conditions, flu, crowd, commentators and lack of motivation were all against us....and the Pies were lucky..
Remember - there is losing, and there is LOSING....we LOST
Thanks for the reassurance....I will chill the bubbly now, and wait till we win the big one.
I hope the deficiencies I saw yesterday are not there, and I was dreaming when I continually saw players faulter under REAL pressure
anyways...
Just an off day.....that was the #1 excuse I asked to know in the OP....thanks for clearing it up....oh wonderful supporters.
Like you know what a supporter is, you egotistical muppet.
It's easy to criticize and belittle, and even easier to generalise. Often the weak, usually riddled with personal insecurity, use all three.
Now tell me, what is more of a joke?
Supporters having faith in their team, who have proven they can beat the best, beat any team, and play down right dominant football. Only weeks earlier keeping one of the greatest teams ever goalless for a half.
Or a middle-aged man who pours hours into posts on an internet forum to try and prove that he is more football savvy than a bunch of nerds, also lacking the ability and maturity to actually interact and engage in conversation with respect and intelligence. I have a feeling you are one of those awful people who talk at people.
Hey mate, STFU! Believe it or not, your opinion is considered bottom of the barrel 'round 'ere!
Beekay wrote:Like you know what a supporter is, you egotistical muppet.
It's easy to criticize and belittle, and even easier to generalise. Often the weak, usually riddled with personal insecurity, use all three.
Now tell me, what is more of a joke?
Supporters having faith in their team, who have proven they can beat the best, beat any team, and play down right dominant football. Only weeks earlier keeping one of the greatest teams ever goalless for a half.
Or a middle-aged man who pours hours into posts on an internet forum to try and prove that he is more football savvy than a bunch of nerds, also lacking the ability and maturity to actually interact and engage in conversation with respect and intelligence. I have a feeling you are one of those awful people who talk at people.
Hey mate, STFU! Believe it or not, your opinion is considered bottom of the barrel 'round 'ere!
Beekay wrote:Like you know what a supporter is, you egotistical muppet.
It's easy to criticize and belittle, and even easier to generalise. Often the weak, usually riddled with personal insecurity, use all three.
Now tell me, what is more of a joke?
Supporters having faith in their team, who have proven they can beat the best, beat any team, and play down right dominant football. Only weeks earlier keeping one of the greatest teams ever goalless for a half.
Or a middle-aged man who pours hours into posts on an internet forum to try and prove that he is more football savvy than a bunch of nerds, also lacking the ability and maturity to actually interact and engage in conversation with respect and intelligence. I have a feeling you are one of those awful people who talk at people.
Hey mate, STFU! Believe it or not, your opinion is considered bottom of the barrel 'round 'ere!
Gotta say that is one mighty good spray!
I'm going out on a limb here and saying that was post of the year! Best and most deserved spray ever!
Beekay wrote:
Hey mate, STFU! Believe it or not, your opinion is considered bottom of the barrel 'round 'ere!
Disagree. I think BigMart's opinions are provocative and the thoughtful posts well worth reading.
Everyone deals with the frustration of losing in different ways, I don't agree that the sky did fall but there are clearly cracks that have been papered over with mediocre wins over poor opposition.
Having said that there's a world of improvement to come from some players showing only glimpses of what they offered last year. This team can win 3 in a row against good opposition in September.
Beekay wrote: I have a feeling you are one of those awful people who talk at people.
Brilliant illustration, and I recon you'd be spot on....
We have all been told many times just how much experience and knowledge BM has, as he contantly volunteers this information for no real reason, and is constantly teaching us about the game the rest of us know so little about...
I don't think anyone really minds BigMart's football obsevations....it was more the clear attack on other forumites as the thrust of his OP that roused and wrankled many.
There wasa flood of negative posts after the game, which given how poorly the Saints played was not surprising.....and also remember that posters often post to vent and release frustrations that they as supporters can really do little about.
However if one attacks other posters for their holding of a view, rather than the view itself, it will always draw fire in return.........and in part too because they are probably a bit disappointed and frustrated as well.
Last edited by saintsRrising on Sun 18 Jul 2010 7:23pm, edited 1 time in total.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
3rd generation saint wrote:It is still a worry of mine that we are incapable of kicking decent scores.
We have the worst forward line of the top 10 teams.
On paper;
Milne - Koschitzke - Schneider
Steven - Riewoldt - McQualter
I think it is probably one of the best (Steven and McQualter exempted). But unfortunately Kosi is out of form and Riewoldt is returning after a months out of the game. The inside 50 delivery was so poor yesterday Milne and to a lesser extent Steven and Schnadzo had few opportunities.
Beekay wrote:
Hey mate, STFU! Believe it or not, your opinion is considered bottom of the barrel 'round 'ere!
Disagree. I think BigMart's opinions are provocative and the thoughtful posts well worth reading.
Everyone deals with the frustration of losing in different ways, I don't agree that the sky did fall but there are clearly cracks that have been papered over with mediocre wins over poor opposition.
Having said that there's a world of improvement to come from some players showing only glimpses of what they offered last year. This team can win 3 in a row against good opposition in September.
They were in 2006 when GT was coach.
Now they are bitter, self absorbed and a waste of time.
What does he bring other than whingeing incessantly about Ball, Goose and X leaving?
3rd generation saint wrote:It is still a worry of mine that we are incapable of kicking decent scores.
We have the worst forward line of the top 10 teams.
On paper;
Milne - Koschitzke - Schneider
Steven - Riewoldt - McQualter
I think it is probably one of the best (Steven and McQualter exempted). But unfortunately Kosi is out of form and Riewoldt is returning after a months out of the game. The inside 50 delivery was so poor yesterday Milne and to a lesser extent Steven and Schnadzo had few opportunities.
The main problem with Kosi being out of form, is that he has been out of form all year.
His best games this year have been so so....and the opposition clubs are now very adroit in exploiting his lack of second efforts..
Kosi HAS TO land his marks more....
Sure his bash and crash provides some opportunities.....but he has to mark more...and kick more goals. Needs to average 2 goals per game.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
We can offer up some (3 from memory) rather severe holding the ball decisions inside the Collingwood F50 which cost goals, plus Fisher out on the full when he had Goddard free which cost another goal etc. etc. etc.
It was one of those days from that moment and it got no better.
Plus there was the bouncing of the ball which continually seemed to give favour to Collingwood - do the umpires practice this because other times they could not get it above head high.
No doubt the run of the game was against us - usually these things change but not in this match.
Better out of the way in the minor round than in a final.
What we need to learn is that Collingwood expected us to go back and targetted the player/s we had behind the contest, running directly at them and introducing the pressure we always seemed to be under.
We never changed tactic and sought to go forward - always back and accross with a press being applied to us.
Even when particularly Pattinson and Koschitzke had made position we ignored their work and went back and around.
Forwards can only perform if the ball is presented to them - including one out.
Riewoldt was double teamed - yet our "spare" defender did no rebound damage from our defence.
Fisher got plenty of it and generally played well - but some others in our defence are not who we want "spare" because they do not do or seek to do damage - see Blake in particular.
Dawson plays because he is a 195cm defender - and he has a specific job to do by putting his fist into a contest for the ball.
We will be better with Clarke back and Gram with better fitness.
In the absence of Baker (a stopper not a rebounder), we seem to lack a small defender and perhaps Peake with his pace could be tried.
Collingwood exploited us here, with Dawson, Fisher, Gilbert, Blake and Gwilt all 188cm and taller - then Geary and Gram.
Our mid-field offered no drive despite possessions so our attack was at a severe dis-advantage - the positive being Riewoldt has another game under his belt and Steven contests.
Milne was matched by a taller opponent - with the normal result. Milne just does not have the pace to exploit and is too easily closed down by bigger bodies opponents which explains his finals record.
Schnieder had a shocker and McQualter must be under pressure.
Pattinson showed a bit - although I would expect King back when it gets serious - including because he does not go to ground as frequently in the ruck contest as the most promising and emerging youngster McEvoy does.
We still lacked that mid sized forward option able to get to the middle of the ground as a target and to allow us to centre the ball periodically.
Perhaps it is time to give Lynch or Heyne some exposure in this role - at the expense of McQualter and/or Schnieder - or even Milne.
We obviously need the inventive rebound of Clarke, the pause and polish of Dal Santo (now with bragging rights - and to spread our mid-field rotations) and fitness into the returning Riewoldt, Gram and Koschitzke.
As the coach said - "a wake up call".
And next week will not get any easier.
Which is the way you want it - the questions being answered now in the lead up to the finals.
And just one final word, I sincerely trust Collingwood never win a flag because, quite frankly, the majority of their supporters who attend games just do not deserve such a result.
They look as they sound.
No doubt we have our share, but with them it is the overwhelming majority.
Just to add - in a perfect world I would not like to see all of Dempster, Blake, Geary and Dawson in our defence because of a lack of rebound abilities and ball usage skills - then you add Baker.
So our rebound becomes reliant on Fisher, Gilbert and Clarke.
And on Saturday, Fisher and Gilbert meaning they were targetted far too easily.
Similarly, in attack Steven, McQualter, Milne and Schnieder represents just too many of the same and particularly because Steven is the quickest of this quartet by some margin - so I would keep him.
Only Steven is (potentially) capable of playing a mid-field role (or at least pinch hitting) so we are too static putting too much pressure on our mid-field and our talls in attack.
The ball was generally coming out of our attacking areas far too easily - and with all of Steven (the best of them when on the field), McQualter, Milne and Schnieder that just should not have happended.
Schnieder just looks too distressed far too often for my liking - and is exploited when required to assume a mid-field rotation as he was in Dal Santo's absence.
Milne can not use the ball up the ground and McQualter is just not up to it - and particularly in 2010 form.
The reports of Armitage are concerning because he would have been a big chance to push for September action in my view.
To the top wrote:Just to add - in a perfect world I would not like to see all of Dempster, Blake, Geary and Dawson in our defence because of a lack of rebound abilities and ball usage skills - then you add Baker.
So our rebound becomes reliant on Fisher, Gilbert and Clarke.
And on Saturday, Fisher and Gilbert meaning they were targetted far too easily.
Similarly, in attack Steven, McQualter, Milne and Schnieder represents just too many of the same and particularly because Steven is the quickest of this quartet by some margin - so I would keep him.
Only Steven is (potentially) capable of playing a mid-field role (or at least pinch hitting) so we are too static putting too much pressure on our mid-field and our talls in attack.
The ball was generally coming out of our attacking areas far too easily - and with all of Steven (the best of them when on the field), McQualter, Milne and Schnieder that just should not have happended.
Schnieder just looks too distressed far too often for my liking - and is exploited when required to assume a mid-field rotation as he was in Dal Santo's absence.
Milne can not use the ball up the ground and McQualter is just not up to it - and particularly in 2010 form.
The reports of Armitage are concerning because he would have been a big chance to push for September action in my view.
Good analysis, agree with a lot of what you say.
I too prefer Steven over Mini, he is quicker and knows where the goals are, Mini has lost his ability to kick a goal, he has gone far too negative.
Beekay wrote:Like you know what a supporter is, you egotistical muppet.
It's easy to criticize and belittle, and even easier to generalise. Often the weak, usually riddled with personal insecurity, use all three.
Now tell me, what is more of a joke?
Supporters having faith in their team, who have proven they can beat the best, beat any team, and play down right dominant football. Only weeks earlier keeping one of the greatest teams ever goalless for a half.
Or a middle-aged man who pours hours into posts on an internet forum to try and prove that he is more football savvy than a bunch of nerds, also lacking the ability and maturity to actually interact and engage in conversation with respect and intelligence. I have a feeling you are one of those awful people who talk at people.
Hey mate, STFU! Believe it or not, your opinion is considered bottom of the barrel 'round 'ere!
I like BigMart's posts because he's not the regular rose-tinter.
When we play poorly and lose it really winds me up reading posts suggesting, "one of those days rah rah rah, everything is fine lah lah lah, we'll do it when it matters dah dah dah".
Thankfully we can take comfort knowing it wouldn't be how Ross Lyon handles a defeat, particularly such a poor one against one of our immediate rivals for a premiership.
In saying that, though, great spray Kaiser. 8.5/10.
Add to that that the players were not switched on..whereas the Pies were and you have a good win to them.
Mini is a concern. He started the year poorly, good better (but not good), but has gone backwards again. Imprtanatly has lost his goal scoring ability and dead eye dickness when shooting at goal.
Kosi is a concern...for the points raised earlier by me, and others. Unfortunately Stanley also goes missing at present...and Ben and Patto are lumerers too. If Kosi does not pull his finger out soon Patto may be preferred.
Zac has gone ok the last 2 weeks after a poor season and may have turned the corner.
Steven I would now play every remaining H&A game to train him up for finals...or to at least be in postion in round 22 to decide to play him or not. Moreso with Armo getting injured again.
Steven just seems to have the knack of kicking goals which only a few players have, and of this type the saints lack sorely. Steven could well have had three goals ina quarter again, but he did the team thing and passed to Roo who missed.
Overall no need to panic even though we are deficient in seveal positions, but yes the Saints players need to lift as we have been too patchy this year. Our players do not menatally show up for some games. Though with 2009 being so freakishly good and up, we are probably expecting too higha standard.
I also get the feeling that the team is more focussed on being ready for Sept this year, whereas last year it was that each and every week was the focus. Looking too far forward though is not always a good thing...
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
BigMart wrote:Yeah you do have to (accept mediocrity) most stk fans do....they make excuses for it...
I think last year we missed a opportunity....as in 2004..as in 1997..and this is our 2005 and 1998....
Today we were exposed as pretenders....understand that...
Absolute rubbish!
Even the best of teams have dirty days at the office.
When Port were well beaten by Brisbane in 04, were they exposed as 'pretenders'? When West Coast were smashed by the Dockers in 06, were they exposed as 'pretenders'?
