Is BJ now our most important player?

[saintsRrising]

Not long after Lyon started he predicted that BJ would be our point of difference.

Listening to the Lions game and contrasting this with our other games this year it stuck me that BJ may now well be our most important player as we really mised his ability to set up play.

In addition BJ is a great finisher who can kick goals or be sent back to ease the load if the backline is under the pump.

BJ is really the complete package who can turn games, set up play, break the the lines, take good grabs and kick goals.

A rampant BJ is also very difficulat for the opposition to try and quell.

Roo may well be still our best player...but BJ is now arguably our most important. Without him our ability to set up play is a lot less. Dal is very good, but does not quite have BJ's presecence and impact. Hayes wins the ball beautifully, but lacks BJ's finish.

Your thoughts?


PS: IMO BJ, Hayes and Roo are our current big 3, with Dal just a smidegeon below them.

[35...LEGEND]

Not long after Lyon started he predicted that BJ would be our point of difference.

Listening to the Lions game and contrasting this with our other games this year it stuck me that BJ may now well be our most important player as we really mised his ability to set up play.

In addition BJ is a great finisher who can kick golas or be sennt back to ease the load if the backline is under the pump.

BJ is really the complete package who can turn games, set up play, break the the lines, take good grabs and kick goals.

A rampant BJ is also very difficulat for the opposition to try and quell.

Roo may well be still our best player...but BJ is now arguably our most important.

Your thoughts?


PS: IMO BJ, Hayes and Roo are our current big 3, with Dal justa smidegeon below them.

BJ is a rare talent..........as is Skip.

Will give the nod to Skip because of (IMO) the more difficult role.................splitting hair's though...........both sublime players when going.

[plugger66]

Rooy is bar our most important. Lenny and BJ next. Funny what 3 months out of the game does to peoples memory.

[mick13]

Just be thankful they're both in Saints colours.

[bigcarl]

BJ, Hayes and Roo are our current big 3, with Dal just a smidegeon below them.

I think the above named are the fab 4.

gilbert also is very important to us.

Then there's a host of others like CJ, Blake, Milne, Joey, Gram, Ray .., I could go on.

gwilt is the one who is really starting to surprise and impress me. his disposal and strong body is what sets him apart. he rarely misses a target.

[Legendary]

Actually say that Hayes is our most important.

We can win consistently without Riewoldt. We can win without Goddard.

Don't think we can win without Lenny.

[Beej]

Goddard could be the best player in the competition right at this point in time.

[saintsRrising]

Rooy is bar our most important. Lenny and BJ next. Funny what 3 months out of the game does to peoples memory.

Nothing wrong with my memory...though perhaps 3 weeks off the forum has affected your ability to mount an argument. It clearly has not affected your ability to hurl barbs though.

IMO BJ has improved this year and he is exceptional in areas that we are deficient in.

Roo is also exceptional. Indeed I stated in my OP that I think that he is still our BEST player. I also am not talking about Roo's Lion performance as he will run into form in due course.

However with Roo our other tall forwards at present are only so-so...and so the opposition can counter his influence somewhat with numbers.


Against the Ctas this goes ok for us as it exposes them to our smalls which the Cats are not that well set up to counter anyway.


Both are exceptional...and I think ita worthy point of discussion.

[plugger66]

Rooy is bar our most important. Lenny and BJ next. Funny what 3 months out of the game does to peoples memory.

Nothing wrong with my memory...though perhaps 3 weeks off the forum has affected your ability to mount an argument. It clearly has not affected your ability to hurl barbs though.

IMO BJ has improved this year and he is exceptional in areas that we are deficient in.

Roo is also exceptional. Indeed I stated in my OP that I think that he is still our BEST player. I also am not talking about Roo's Lion performance as he will run into form in due course.

However with Roo our other tall forwards at present are only so-so...and so the opposition can counter his influence somewhat with numbers.


Against the Ctas this goes ok for us as it exposes them to our smalls which the Cats are not that well set up to counter anyway.


Both are exceptional...and I think ita worthy point of discussion.

I didnt mount an arguement because to me there is no arguement. BJ is improving yearly and he and Lenny are probably leading the B&F but still say that it isnt close if Rooy plays as he has every year in the AFL.

[saintsRrising]

if Rooy plays as he has every year in the AFL.

Every year? Maybe that memory factor you referred to is coloured somewhat?

Anyway..thanks for your opinion. I think most will rate Roo as our most important player.

[plugger66]

if Rooy plays as he has every year in the AFL.

Every year? Maybe that memory factor you referred to is coloured somewhat?

Well certainly the last 6. Sorry if i got excited.

[CURLY]

First off Roo is number one.

Second any news on Goddard there has been a few whispers around he has a injury.

[saint66au]

Joey in the same bracket as Dal for mine

[Wrote for Luck]

Joey in the same bracket as Dal for mine

Agree, Joey is class. Very consistent too.
Improved alot with first possession and tackle count this season and last.
Good to see Gram flying under the radar a little last night.
15 possession for 68% game time is a good effort.
Would have won the grand final if Gods' didn't get injured.
But Roo is the champion.

[Moods]

Goddard is a gun no doubt - but a fit and in form rooey has no peer to ANYONE in the AFL.

[Milan Faletic]

Not long after Lyon started he predicted that BJ would be our point of difference.

Listening to the Lions game and contrasting this with our other games this year it stuck me that BJ may now well be our most important player as we really mised his ability to set up play.

In addition BJ is a great finisher who can kick golas or be sennt back to ease the load if the backline is under the pump.

BJ is really the complete package who can turn games, set up play, break the the lines, take good grabs and kick goals.

A rampant BJ is also very difficulat for the opposition to try and quell.

Roo may well be still our best player...but BJ is now arguably our most important. Without him our ability to set up play is alot less. Dal is very good, but does not quite have BJ's presecence and impact. Hayes wins the ball beautifully, but lacks BJ's finish.

Your thoughts?


PS: IMO BJ, Hayes and Roo are our current big 3, with Dal justa smidegeon below them.

Interesting thread.

Also interesting that the only year that we haven't made the Finals since 2004 was 2007 when BJ did his knee. Not sure how to interpret that, because it was RL's first year as coach, but that is a fact.

I still think Nick Riewoldt is the best player I have ever seen.

[rexy]

Interesting thread, Brendan Goddard is an absolute gun, that we all agree on. I would actually have it the other way around though.

I think BJ is our best player and ROO our most important, nobody in our side can replicate Reiwodts output, running ability and marking in the forward line, this makes him our most important IMO. As a forward there is a gap to everyone and BJ would be in the next group as our most damaging forwards when he is there.

BJ would be equal to our best in the midfield and across half back, he can also play tall in defense, go third up in the ruck and is the best user in the side and top 3 in the comp IMO.

BJ is the best complete footballer on our list, Roo probably the best forward in the comp.

Splitting hairs to seperate them but thats how I see it.

One thing I know for certain is it was very obvious we missed him last night.

[bigred]

Difference between Roo and BJ.

Roo could do the role or even roles that BJ does, consistently and effectively. He would still be rated as one of the best players in the comp. Easily. Midfield, half-back sweeper etc...no worries.

Ask BJ to do what Roo does and yeah, maybe for one game in five he may be able to play at the same level....Maybe. That is at FF, CHF...with the lead up get out of jail wing/half-back runs that Roo takes.

A heap...A HEAP of our game is via BJ. He is super important to us.

[kalsaint]

Actually say that Hayes is our most important.

We can win consistently without Riewoldt. We can win without Goddard.

Don't think we can win without Lenny.

While I truly respect Lenny, I am not sure I agree.

I think Goddard has recently taken the top mantle just from Roo and Lenny. Others not included in teh fab 4 who are real winners are Gilbert, Montagna and Gwilt.

Gwilt has some similarity to Goddard close in packs and has a huge kick.

The true difference in Goddard to the rest is his on field talk. This is first class and provides confidence to the team when they have the ball even when the opposition is creating pressure by laying tackles. No one does this better than Goddard.

This is paramount to improvement in St. Kilda's execution over the last 2 years. WIthout it the team make more errors.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Um... no....

1) Reiwoldt
2) Daylight
3) Goddard
4) More daylight
5) Hayes, Dal and Joey. Very little to separate them. Maybe edge to Dal because he carries a tagger with him when he goes grocery shopping.

[samoht]

Um... no....

1) Reiwoldt
2) Daylight
3) Goddard
4) More daylight
5) Hayes, Dal and Joey. Very little to separate them. Maybe edge to Dal because he carries a tagger with him when he goes grocery shopping.

I don't think so - there's no daylight there (to me anyway)... the players you mention are all elite players and important links in the chain that ends up with arguably the hardest working forward in history - who may nevertheless kick more points than goals (and for good reason too as CHF is a fair way from goal).

They are all equally important - I see no daylight ... and Goddard has rare skills that can add bite to an otherwise innocuous passage of play and is a match winning player himself - in fact all the elite are, in their own way.

The elite complement each other and the sum is always greater than the parts... they are all equally important... and if clear daylight exists it's between these elite players and our bottom 6.

[saint tezza]

All 3 Lenny , Roo and BJ are vitally important for us to play our best football but there is one thing I disagree with Big Red on .

Yes Rooey could play anywhere but his field kicking is nowhere in the class of BJ so in that sort of role he would not be nearly as effective.

There is something special about the way BJ can spot an option 50 mt away with a lot of traffic ahead and find the team mate .

Its what elevates him from the rest .

Its not just getting the ball that counts . Its what you do with it that makes the difference.

[Goose is king]

You could be right.

It might be like in 97 when Harvey was our best player but Everitt was our X-factor

[Unforgiven]

I honestly don't know... too quickly do people forget how good Roo was during last years finals. Lenny is amazing and takes us to another level, and Bj is imo the most unique player in the league with what he can do.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Um... no....

1) Reiwoldt
2) Daylight
3) Goddard
4) More daylight
5) Hayes, Dal and Joey. Very little to separate them. Maybe edge to Dal because he carries a tagger with him when he goes grocery shopping.

I don't think so - there's no daylight there (to me anyway)... the players you mention are all elite players and important links in the chain that ends up with arguably the hardest working forward in history - who may nevertheless kick more points than goals (and for good reason too as CHF is a fair way from goal).

They are all equally important - I see no daylight ... and Goddard has rare skills that can add bite to an otherwise innocuous passage of play and is a match winning player himself - in fact all the elite are, in their own way.

The elite complement each other and the sum is always greater than the parts... they are all equally important... and if clear daylight exists it's between these elite players and our bottom 6.

Honestly, this is where I struggle with the "A grade" or "elite" terminology we get fed and use ourselves. Absolutely, all are elite if we're measuring elite against their peers and saying top 5%.

Reiwoldt and Goddard are in a class again. What do we call that class? With the love of hyperbole in sports, whatever we identify it with will immediately get expanded to include the likes of Dal, Hayes, Joey, (Selwood, Enright, Gilbee, Lewis, Sewell - I'd take them on my team in a second, but they're not Ablett, Lake, Franklin, Rioli level WOW players)

Reiwoldt has a gameplan built around him.

The team has learned to be more flexible in their approach to scoring while he's been out, and this can only be a good thing - but Goddard, as good as he's been (and he should be right up there on Brownlow night) is far more replaceable (even if it takes 4 players to do it ) than Reiwoldt.