How effing proud should we be of this club and its coach?

[markinUSA]

That was a beautiful post. Thank you so much. I loved reading it.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

You forgot to mention the way the team was relentlessly pilloried for its game style a few weeks ago. One would have thoughts we were terrorists bent on the destruction of the game.

We overcame that negativity as well.

[markp]

Also, you forgot to mention Luke Ball.

We still miss Luke Ball.

[rodgerfox]

Proud?

At the half way mark of the season? Are you guys for real?


I'm afraid I'll be waiting to see if we achieve what we're capable of before being proud of anything.

Fair dinkum. Are you guys for real? Is this the 1980s??

[bigcarl]

Get any neutral to compare the Cat's 22 vs the Saints and they will rate them above the Saints.

what would they have said at round 18, 2009? these things can change around very quickly.

[Saintsfan]

Proud?

At the half way mark of the season? Are you guys for real?


I'm afraid I'll be waiting to see if we achieve what we're capable of before being proud of anything.

Fair dinkum. Are you guys for real? Is this the 1980s??

Give me an amen brother.

Amen.

Near enough is good enough has taken a transfomation much like the messiah complex from Harvey to Roo/Lyon.

[SainterK]

Not really up to you two to dictate when someone can or cannot feel proud though, is it?

[Saintsfan]

Not really up to you two to dictate when someone can or cannot feel proud though, is it?

There is nothing to feel pride over.

[SainterK]

Not really up to you two to dictate when someone can or cannot feel proud though, is it?

There is nothing to feel pride over.

That's up to the individual, they may think so, so don't be so bossy

[Legendary]

Pride is an emotional response to a display of character, strength, resilience or achievement from someone or something you're passionate about.

Nothing wrong with being proud of the character and strength that the Saints have shown so far this year.


You've gotta enjoy the journey ... it's all very well to say that you will only be proud on that last day in September.

But in my opinion, if you go through life constantly waiting for the end result, you'll miss so much of the experience, pleasure and passion that it takes to get there.

I'm proud of what we've done so far this year, and I'm proud of the way the club, players and coach have handled themselves.

[rodgerfox]

But in my opinion, if you go through life constantly waiting for the end result, you'll miss so much of the experience, pleasure and passion that it takes to get there.

We're not talking about life here.

We're talking about a sporting club that employs professionals on large salaries to achieve something - a premiership.

They haven't achieved it. We're only half way through the season.


So what's there to be proud of??

[Legendary]

That's exactly the reason we should be proud.

Sporting club. Not life.

The Saints are a sporting club we support and follow and are passionate about.


They are not a business in which we hold shares, and everything is about maximising the dividend we get paid each year.

The nature of a sporting club is it's character, strength, loyalty, resilience and achievements. The endeavours of the club don't always have to result in a premiership before you can feel proud.

[Saintsfan]

But in my opinion, if you go through life constantly waiting for the end result, you'll miss so much of the experience, pleasure and passion that it takes to get there.

We're not talking about life here.

We're talking about a sporting club that employs professionals on large salaries to achieve something - a premiership.

They haven't achieved it. We're only half way through the season.


So what's there to be proud of??

Mr Joe Blow does not feel pride halfway through a reporting season if the Net Profit is only half of what was expected.

They tried really hard though as they were paid and expected to do right?

[markp]

Please remove the word 'Proudly' from the Saintsational banner with regards to the sponsored players, apparently they haven't done anything to deserve yet...

[TazzieSaintGirl83]

I dont have the right words to describe how badly I want a flag for the club. I want September glory so much I can taste it. I know that is the ultimate goal, but it doesnt make me feel any less proud when a player reaches a personal milestone or the team comes together to put up a hard fought win.

The way in which you support your club is a very personal thing as shown by the opinions posted on these boards.

There are those of us that feel pride in the things the club has achieved so far and there are those that dont.
Its up to each person how they feel about it.... Live and let live I say.

[Legendary]

Mr Joe Blow does not feel pride halfway through a reporting season if the Net Profit is only half of what was expected.

They tried really hard though as they were paid and expected to do right?

THAT is EXACTLY the point.

We aren't involved in a business. It's not about dividens or profits or shareholders interests.


It's a footy club which makes us proud every single day.

[Thinline]

But in my opinion, if you go through life constantly waiting for the end result, you'll miss so much of the experience, pleasure and passion that it takes to get there.

We're not talking about life here.

We're talking about a sporting club that employs professionals on large salaries to achieve something - a premiership.

They haven't achieved it. We're only half way through the season.


So what's there to be proud of??

9 and 3 sans Roo has been an achievement, and one that's impressed me.

A premiership is something I'd be proud of.

[ThePunter]

I reckon Richmond supporters would have been pretty proud on the weekend.

They didn't win the premiership on Sunday, did they?

Look, I'm all for the mentality that one team wins the premiership, and fifteen don't, so there is only one successful team per year, but I think more than any of us, the players would believe that.

Does anyone remember Nick Riewoldt's reaction to beating Geelong last year? A small fist pump. (BTW, Gary Ablett was screaming like someone took away his favourite Transformer.)

I was there on Sunday, and we worked them over. It's bloody tough to win over there, it was hot, we were one man short very early on, and we stuck fat.

Four wins in a row at Subiaco, by the way. Five from our last six. (For what it is worth, Milne has 18 goals in those six games.)

Riewoldt is supposed to be the most indispensable player in the league. He apparently proved that in last year's finals.

Riewoldt & Koschitzke play: 1-0
Just Riewoldt plays: 1-0
No Riewoldt or Koschitzke play (inc Collingwood game): 2-0
Just Koschitzke plays: 1-3 (win v WB)
Koschitzke & Stanley play: 4-0

Think of all the crap that has gone on around the club in the last 10 months, whether self-inflicted or not. Despite all that, the players till carry themselves in a most professional manner.

Plenty to be proud of.

Nowhere near satisfied yet.

[Dr Spaceman]

Proud?

At the half way mark of the season? Are you guys for real?


I'm afraid I'll be waiting to see if we achieve what we're capable of before being proud of anything.

Fair dinkum. Are you guys for real? Is this the 1980s??

rodg, I think your mistaking pride for celebration.

You can be proud of your team's performance in a particular game. You can be proud of how your team has coped with adversity. You can certainly be proud that your team sits second on the ladder at 9-3 after so many experts said our season was gone.

We're not celebrating yet and we won't until the ultimate prize is won. But we can be proud of the way this team has performed THUS FAR.

[Saintsfan]

But in my opinion, if you go through life constantly waiting for the end result, you'll miss so much of the experience, pleasure and passion that it takes to get there.

We're not talking about life here.

We're talking about a sporting club that employs professionals on large salaries to achieve something - a premiership.

They haven't achieved it. We're only half way through the season.


So what's there to be proud of??

9 and 3 sans Roo has been an achievement, and one that's impressed me.

A premiership is something I'd be proud of.

Exactly. Whta has happened thus far has been impressive however I am not proud of half a seasons work without a CHF.

They are all paid very well to get this right especially with the group that they have currently, so they should do so.

[missgez]

Agreed we won't be satisfied unless / until we win the flag but a lot of things have to happen along the way for that to be possible.

And to summarise that is about finishing top 4. And preferably top 2 with an interstate team in the mix.

After everything that has gone wrong this season it would be easy to imagine dropping out of contention - most football commentators and football public certainly expected us to.

The feelings of pride are about the way the boys have responded.

In spite of the journey, at the half way point the outcome is exactly what we would have hoped for at the start of the year ie TOP TWO. Maybe we could have been there undefeated instead of 9-3 but cast our minds back 12 months and did being undefeated at round 12 win us a flag? No.

The feelings of pride are about seeing our beloved team going into the break where they should righfully be. We are proud of they way they have found a way to win and perhaps even become a better team for the challenge.

In 2009 everything went right other than when it really mattered. Here's hoping this year will be the opposite!

[Dr Spaceman]

But in my opinion, if you go through life constantly waiting for the end result, you'll miss so much of the experience, pleasure and passion that it takes to get there.

We're not talking about life here.

We're talking about a sporting club that employs professionals on large salaries to achieve something - a premiership.

They haven't achieved it. We're only half way through the season.


So what's there to be proud of??

9 and 3 sans Roo has been an achievement, and one that's impressed me.

A premiership is something I'd be proud of.

Exactly. Whta has happened thus far has been impressive however I am not proud of half a seasons work without a CHF.

They are all paid very well to get this right especially with the group that they have currently, so they should do so.

rodger & saintsfan, you guys seem to be trying to elevate this to some sort of highbrow philosophical discussion on achievement and success.

On your theory I suppose we shouldn’t be proud of the Anzacs, or the Firies on Black Saturday! And Michael Collins shouldn’t be proud of his achievements on Apollo 11 because he didn’t actually get to stand on the moon!

Despite what some people try to tell us, this is not about meeting KPIs etc. Well not for the fans anyway. It’s bloody footy! Followed passionately by ordinary people. People who have followed their team religiously for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years.

Most people, yourself included, would conclude we do not have, player by player, the best team in the competition. That we are competitive, and in a position to challenge for the cup is a tremendous credit to all at the club, especially the coach and players.

We haven’t successfully completed 2010 yet but that’s no reason we can’t feel pride at how we have responded to the challenges thrown at us in the first half of the season.

[3rd generation saint]

There is very much an unpside for us right now.
Doubt anyone here would have thought we'd be here after Roo went down.
Going to Perth twice in 4 weeks and winning both times convincingly is no mean effort.
But the biggest upside I see right now is that I don't think Geelong can get any better, even with their missing players, but we can play a lot better.
That gap between Geelong and us isn't as fathomable as some may think.
Let's hope we give Geelong something to really think about Friday week.

[plugger66]

There is very much an unpside for us right now.
Doubt anyone here would have thought we'd be here after Roo went down.
Going to Perth twice in 4 weeks and winning both times convincingly is no mean effort.
But the biggest upside I see right now is that I don't think Geelong can get any better, even with their missing players, but we can play a lot better.
That gap between Geelong and us isn't as fathomable as some may think.
Let's hope we give Geelong something to really think about Friday week.

Why wouldnt Geelong improve if Scarlett, Rooke, Corey, Ottens and Mooney come into the side. Surely that is just wishful thinking. Imagine if a Geelong supporter said we couldnt improve with Rooy, Grammy and Zac back. You would laugh at them. They have at least as much upside if not more than us, we must just hope we are playing better at the right time.

[meher baba]

I'll keep out of the Byzantine convolutions of RF and SF and return to this interesting response to my earlier comments.

MB....it is not coach worship. It is just recognition that we have a bloody good coach now.

Get any neutral to compare the Cat's 22 vs the Saints and they will rate them above the Saints.

Yet we are a chance to beat them. Why? Well IMO it is clear...it is the coaching. Lyon is our edge.

IMO Lyon knows the Cats are the team to beat and he has structured up the Saints player-wise and gameplan-wise to give us the best chance to beat them.

Cats are vunerable to pressure...but most teams cannot exert enough pressure for long enough. Lyon has built a team that can apply that pressure...and part of that is players with tough mature bodies.

This is what will give us a chance at a flag. The Cat's area truly awesome team...and Lyon through truly awesome team-play and discipline is giving us a chance to roll them.

I totally agree that Lyon has proved himself to be a terrific coach. I'm not so sure that everything he does is as Geelong-centred as you would have it, but perhaps you have heard this from him directly??

Do the Cats have a better lineup than us? I would have thought that it was a pretty close comparison man for man in 2009. The Cats were significantly ahead in the midfield and (once Ottens came back) slightly ahead in the ruck division. The backlines were probably about even, but we were arguably as far ahead in the forward line as they were ahead in the midfield. So it boiled down to two pretty evenly matched teams with Ottens a point of difference (so we beat them when they were without him and lost to them when he came back).

This year, with Podsiadly significantly strengthening their forward line, they have probably moved ahead of us (that is, if Riewoldt and Gram are fit for the finals: just at the moment we are way behind them).

So I don't think it is a case of Lyon the genius taking an average group to a higher level of achievement.

I think that the most that any coach can do with a group of players is to motivate them, give them a good structure and give each of them productive missions to perform on the field. Lyon does this as well as you could possibly ask, as does Thompson and, for the most part, Eade and Malthouse and probably a few others (I reckon Ratten and Harvey can coach a bit). After that, it's largely up to the players: how talented they are, fitness levels, how much they want it, etc.

What I think puts Lyon and Thompson above the rest as the outstanding coaches of the moment (and I think Ratten is starting to show some of the same characteristics) is that they have built structures and missions for their players which are robust and sustainable: that is, they try to stay calm and not chop and change in crisis situations (Pim Verbeek provided the object lesson yesterday of how dangerous it is to veer away from your plan).

Ross still occasionally loses his nerve and starts chopping and changing unproductively (he did it in our recent four game streak of poor performances aginst Port and the Dogs, Blues and Bombers). But he's now righted the ship and gone back to the basics of his plan, which has shown itself to be very durable and effective.

Friday week will be a big test. I hope Ross doesn't muck about I'd rather see us go down by a few goals playing our usual game without Riewoldt than go back to shoving Sam Fisher and Gwilt and others up forward to try to compensate for his absence.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to see what happens. If we can hold our loss to a few goals, it will be a moral victory for us. If we somehow contrive a victory, it will be amaaaaazing!!