The 'Over Reliance on Roo' Thread

[SainterK]

I understand that your concerned, but the Freo game must of given you some indication that it can be done?

I will do my best to give you some facts to ponder over a nice cup of tea.

The week following the Freo game, both Ray and Gram missed through injury against Port.

Ray returned against the Dogs, but it could be said that he found his form again on Monday night.

Gram returned Monday, and I expect him to be better for the run this week as well.

Provided Armo returns to assist Lenny with the clearances this week, this will mean that it's the first opportunity to setup similar to what worked that first complete game without Roo.

I am hoping Goddard pushes forward, he famously got a bit of negative press for being a bit excited that game.

On reflection though, that spark is exactly the tonic needed right now, and I think Goddard forward will provide that.

It's all going to work out Rodger, you wait and see

So you think we need every single player fit and in form to 'hopefully' cover the loss of Roo?

That's kind of my point.[/quote]

Of course?

[na exa]

He said he was the son of Butterrs. I have not the foggiest of the Butterrs' family so I would not know whether there is just one son or multiple. If there is only one son of Rod Butterrs then it is infact Cam.

there ya go .

what about asking the Pres to come on here jet ?

[Saintsfan]

He said he was the son of Butterrs. I have not the foggiest of the Butterrs' family so I would not know whether there is just one son or multiple. If there is only one son of Rod Butterrs then it is infact Cam.

there ya go .

what about asking the Pres to come on here jet ?

The way you spoke about him it was as if you know him?

I respect Butterrs and the efforts he put in turning this place around.

[na exa]

when did i speak about him ?

you said teffers was cam...and then said westaway confirmed it.... yea?

thats all , just a little ol question about a little ol thing you said... i've been *thinking about it for awhile







*if you call how i do things, thinking.

[Saintsfan]

when did i speak about him ?

you said teffers was cam...and then said westaway confirmed it.... yea?

thats all , just a little ol question about a little ol thing you said... i've been *thinking about it for awhile







*if you call how i do things, thinking.

Sorry. The idea I had was that you knew someone of the Butterrs clan.

[na exa]

thats ok , no sorry needed... what about westaway telling you teff was cam ?

can you clear that up for me.
(in plain inglish)

[Saintsfan]

thats ok , no sorry needed... what about westaway telling you teff was cam ?

can you clear that up for me.
(in plain inglish)

Westaway stated that Teflon was Rod Butterrs son.

I have no idea how many sons' he has.

That is all.

[na exa]

ta.

[kalsaint]

My retort is 'I dont think StKilda have set out to put all of their eggs in one basket' I think all supporters and coaching staff would agree that it would be nice to have more reliable ways to goal. However, we dont seem to, but I dont think this has been through lack of trying to develop such avenues.

What have we done, over the past 18 months to develop alternate ways to goal?

We haven't drafted forwards - bar Schneider. We haven't played Roo away from goal.
We have, when the games have been in the balance, reverted to the 'play Roo deep and kick it to him' tactic to win close games.


I haven't seen anything to suggest we've tried anything. If anything, I've felt for quite a while (and I've posted about this alot last year) that we've exacerbated the reliance on him - rather than try to reduce it.

Gotta agree with this but the only addition would be we have no lost some of the midfield capability and midfield hard work to gain quality clearances that create opporunity for forwards.

Our midfielders are back more than forwards nowadays and this leaves it to too few. Nick is a legend and singlehandly arrests this deficiency but the team sore si now exposed.

[saintsRrising]

We haven't drafted forwards - bar Schneider. .

I mean seriously. What nonsense. Must be a troll...

Firstly Schneider was traded for. Charlie Gardiner a forward was also traded for.


Not drafted forwards? Recent acquisitions include Lynch, T Walsh, Cahill, Archer, J Allen, Heyne, Stanley......

Ways to goal? What do you think Lovett was traded for?


Have we obtained another Roo??? I mean FFS he is a once in a generation player...

[saintsRrising]

Can we now say that we've rolled the dice over the past 18 months by building a game plan around one guy?

He won the Collingwood final off his own boot.

He won the Dogs prelim off his own boot.

He was injured in the GF and although we managed 16 more Inside 50s - we only had 3 more scoring shots. That's a damming stat.
Many still blame poor conversion, but we only had 3 more shots. It was the inability to score without Roo that killed us.

Now fast forward to this year, and I think it's fair to say we're labouring and look completely lost without him.


Does anyone agree? Have we made a major mistake by putting all our eggs in one basket?

And if so, can we fix it this year before it's too late?

mmmm well that basket of eggs has so far produceda 8-3 win loss ratio.

Not sure how many times that the Saints have turned at 8-3, but it cannot be many??

PS: Apart from no Roo,
*Gram has been out a lot, and has been hampered when in
*King has missed a few
*Mini started the year with surgery and an injury and is only now starting to play like the 2009 Mini
*Demspter missed the pre-season and has only just resumed at Sandi
*Zac was ill over Summer and is yet to rediscover his 2009 form.

But yet we are 8-3......

[SainterK]

Aren't we 9-3?

[Saintsfan]

Aren't we 9-3?

It is easy to bump threads when it suits.

[saintsRrising]

Aren't we 9-3?

Even better then..

[saintsRrising]

Aren't we 9-3?

It is easy to bump threads when it suits.

Yes..please don't bump my Blake to FB thread

However this bump is releavant as it askeda question and after half a dozen games we are better able to answer it.

Roo is great player...but our bigger problem was that we had too many players down on form. More are starting to click.


However our nemisis Geelong looks to have improved on 2009, so our Sept task looks all the harder.

One aspect of trying to win a flag is who is also up when you are. In 2009-20?? we have the gtreat misfortune to be up and about when by any measure one of the AFL's best ever teams (Geelong) is at their best.

We missed opportunities in 04/05 when flags were won by good but not "great" teams following the previous "great" Lions era.

We are a chance to win the flag in 2010.....but make no mistake winning a flag this year is like climbing Mt Everest with no Oxygen or Sherpas.....and will takea massive effort.

In 04/05 this team could have won the flag with no Roo...but against the 2010 Cats (assuming that they havea reasonably fit list to select from) yes I believe we will need him...but that is no disgrace, but rather just recognises how good the current Cats team is.

However equally we need not just Roo...but all of our best 22 up and about and in form.

PS: By seasons end we may well look back and say that BJ is as valuable to us as Roo is, as he has of late steeped up into a dominating player.

Indeed I have greatly looking forward to seeing the "improved" BJ and Roo playing together. Two huge headaches for opposition coaches.

[Finna]

IMO we are better placed than '09 at the same time. This time last year we were peaking - not much improvement left. This time we are only just coming into form with loads of improvement with our best player and gram another massive key to come in. This year is far more promising than last.

FWIW except the injuries I am very happy it's happening this way to and possibly planned to a degree.

We still haven't hit last years pressure and form, we're holding a bit back still.

We will do it at the right end of the season this time.

Where r u rodge?

Cmon, humour us.....

[rodgerfox]

Where r u rodge?

Cmon, humour us.....

Humour us? Not sure what you mean by that.


I think anyone who doesn't think we had an issue with our reliance on Roo is deluded.

Anyone who doesn't think him getting injured for a long period of time hasn't been a godsend is also deluded.

We absolutely over-relied on him. It's taken 2 months but it now appears we've learnt to win without him - and other guys can step up and be matchwinners and leaders when the game is up for grabs.

[SainterK]

Where r u rodge?

Cmon, humour us.....

Humour us? Not sure what you mean by that.


I think anyone who doesn't think we had an issue with our reliance on Roo is deluded.

Anyone who doesn't think him getting injured for a long period of time hasn't been a godsend is also deluded.

We absolutely over-relied on him. It's taken 2 months but it now appears we've learnt to win without him - and other guys can step up and be matchwinners and leaders when the game is up for grabs.

Agree with most of what you said, I shared a view that we kicked it to Roo way too often.

I won't agree that Roo being injured was somehow neccessary for this to occur though, our goal spread before he went down (including the NAB cup) showed we were trending in the right direction.

I agree that the growth in our players (especially midfielders) has been enormous though.

Let's hope they keep it up on his return.

[Finna]

Where r u rodge?

Cmon, humour us.....

Humour us? Not sure what you mean by that.


I think anyone who doesn't think we had an issue with our reliance on Roo is deluded.

Anyone who doesn't think him getting injured for a long period of time hasn't been a godsend is also deluded.

We absolutely over-relied on him. It's taken 2 months but it now appears we've learnt to win without him - and other guys can step up and be matchwinners and leaders when the game is up for grabs.

Good to see your still around even though we're winning without Roo

Seriously though.....I completely agree with your above post.

[joffaboy]

Seriously cant see what RF originally stated was too far off the mark.

Were we over reliant on Roo in our set up?

Yes.

Have we seemed to overcome this over reliance and tweeked the gameplan so we play a different style and have become more of a rounded less predictable team?

Yes.

Was Roos injury a godsend?

No.Never.

An injury to arguably the best player in the league is never a godsend, however I do understand the thrust of RF's argument.

We are 9-3. After we flog Geelong by at least ten goals ( ) we will be 10-3 with Roo just about to come back.

Roo will not be the dominant player he was pre injury. His aerobic capacity for his type of game will be limited. if he plays a Stanley type of game that will be sufficient untiol around R17 when he has got his match fitness back.

This means that the Saints will have to continue with the type of game that does not rely on Roo the way it did previously.

Again, this is a good thing. Roo will still take the best defender, freeing Kosi up who is beginning to run into form and present upfield more.

Dont think that Roo being named will automatically change what we have been doing. he will be there in name but not body for at least a month after he starts playing.

So in essence RF's argument may ultimately prove to be correct.

Oh and I really dont think we will bwat the Cats by ten goals, a one point win would be a tremendous bonus. Fully expect us to lose that one.

[Spinner]

Where r u rodge?

Cmon, humour us.....

Humour us? Not sure what you mean by that.


I think anyone who doesn't think we had an issue with our reliance on Roo is deluded.

Anyone who doesn't think him getting injured for a long period of time hasn't been a godsend is also deluded.

We absolutely over-relied on him. It's taken 2 months but it now appears we've learnt to win without him - and other guys can step up and be matchwinners and leaders when the game is up for grabs.

Teams rely on their Center Half Forward.... Wow!

Is that why it is the most important - and most difficult position on the ground?

[Saintsfan]

It is a godsend if we come out a better team and have restricted the damaged however who is to say we don't begin to kick it to him all the time when he returns?

James Gwilt was lambasted on this forum when playing forward. He had to content with a midfielders choice of Roo, Kosi, Schneider, Milne and possibly a ruckman to kick it to....and then James Gwilt.

[rodgerfox]

Teams rely on their Center Half Forward.... Wow!

Is that why it is the most important - and most difficult position on the ground?

Spinner, you've missed my point.


My issue was that we relied on Roo as more than just a CHF. More than just a player playing a key role.

We relied on him to kick goals. We relied on him to assist goals. We relied on him as a marking target inside 50. We relied on him as a leadup forward. We relied on him as a leader. We relied on him as our matchwinner.


That's just too much for 1 player.


We fell in away in almost all of these areas when he wasn't playing, or wasn't playing well (which fortunately has been rare).


Dare I say now, as I've said previously, we should be able to welcome him back as a superstar CHF who can contribute in all the above areas - not be relied upon solely as the only real source of the above.

[rodgerfox]

It is a godsend if we come out a better team and have restricted the damaged however who is to say we don't begin to kick it to him all the time when he returns?

He was relied upon for more than just being a target.

[vacuous space]

It's probably time to change this to the over reliance on BJ thread. We're asking him to win clearances, drop back in the hole, set up goals and take marks up forward. It's too much for one player.

Or maybe move this thread to Punt Road End.