Sandringham Rd 9 vs Casey- Scores

[Rice Paper]

From what I've seen at Sandy and his couple of games for the Saints, Heyne rivals BJ by foot. Now he needs to get the rest of his game together.

Heyne and the coaches should get him tapes of Robert Murphy and tell him this is the sort of player we need and is his best option of making the team. Lead quickly, mark the ball and instantly turn around and kick to another leading forward.

[Wigsy]

Ha ha, priceless. Heyne equals BJ in kicking prowess. If he could get the ball (who has his average disposals at Sandy?) we could see for sure, but from what we have seen that is wildly optimistic. I think Lyon's style is conducive to very hard workers developing well - think Jones, Geary, Eddy, Gilbert etc - but perhaps less so those with some talent and perhaps not the same intense application (sorry, I don't mean that the earlier grouping lacks talent ... Gilbert now top 30 in comp IMO). There is still a strong possibility that because of Lyon's style that some of these guys will come on strongly, but just later. McEvoy, Lynch and Steven will be players. Hopefully Armi, Heyne, Walsh, Simpkin etc all follow.

[Bardon Saint]

I think the thread got a little off track.

Any match reports? Or is there another thread I've missed?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I was talking about the last 3-4 years....not now

Armitage <30 games - 4 years
Geary < 30 games - 4 years
Eddy < 30 games - 4 years


McEvoy <20 games - 3 years
Steven 2 Games - 3 years

Lynch 0 Games - 2 years
Stanley 3 Games - 2 years
Heyne 2 Games - 2 years

Winmar - yet to debut

All played 75% of their footy in the VFL

Just wondering - if we removed the premise that there's value in playing kids at AFL level for the sake of playing them at AFL level, in your opinion, would you play any of those guys - bar McEvoy - on the basis of what they are, rather than what they could be?

I'm more concerned that Armo, Lynch and Steven (and others, but those are "prospects") are unable to force their way into the team on merit, and hold spots on merit.

No worries about McEvoy, Geary (well, kicking, but not ability to hold his own). Otherwise, my concern is that our kids may just not be good enough, regardless of development philosophy.

[saintsRrising]

I'm more concerned that Armo, Lynch and Steven (and others, but those are "prospects") are unable to force their way into the team on merit, and hold spots on merit.

No worries about McEvoy, Geary (well, kicking, but not ability to hold his own). Otherwise, my concern is that our kids may just not be good enough, regardless of development philosophy.

Steven was a pick 42...

Our early draft picks for a while do not seem to have been coming off...


While any drafting or trading will not be 100% in recent times I think you can generalise and say:

* Rookie selections have been quite ok with a steady stream of players into our team. Attard, CJ, Geary, Eddy and Zac. they have improved our depth with CJ being more than that.

* Late picks have been ok..but with heavy trading there have been less picks. Stanley will be a player, Allen probably would have been and Heyne is promising. Steven may still make it. The two Sam's are stars. Gwilt now looks to be very solid etc.
Steven looked ready to burn this year, but after getting injured in the pre-season has fallen in a hole.


* Early picks.
In recent years we have not had any really early draft picks, but of our early picks Ben is about the only one that seems to be tracking ok relative to his draft selection and body type.

Lynch has been disappointing and injury prone. Has shown some glimpses, but is well behind where you would want him to be.



Armo....does many things well and in a lesser team would probably be playing every week. He looks ok when playing but must not be achieving some of what the coaches want (ie run and spread?).

We traded a late first round selection for Watts...and last year traded our late first rounder for Lovett. Both gained little.

So when you look at our first round picks/trades in recent years we have had a poor return from what should be the cream. This is what has really hurt us. Again in aquiring players you do not expect a 100% strike rate. But from your first round pick you should anticipate a useful player with some stars. In recent years we so far have only gained a useful player in Mini....though Ben looks like going the distance as well.

McQualter at pick 17 way back in 2004, apart from Ben, is our only other recent first rounder that has been delivering fair value relative to where he was selected (and the other players taken that year)...and Mini had a big career "hiccup" including being delisted!!!

We have traded a lot of second rounders and they by and large have been good for us.

One that we kept to gain Howard with turned out to be a speculative pick that bombed badly.

[Animal Enclosure]

People are being impatient with our young guys.

If supporters look at the slow but significant improvement in a number of our best 22 they should have learnt that we do have a solid crop of quality kids coming through.

The best thing is that they don't have to be rushed & when they do get a chance they are supported by a number of absolutely elite talents.

Lynch, Heyne, Steven, Armitage, Stanley and McEvoy have all show glimpses of the players that they will one day consistently be.

A number of others are getting their bodies right, their minds prepared and learning the caper Lyon style.

We'll start to see more of these kids but don't write them off or question where our young guns are. We actually have a pretty solid group considering our consistent top 4 finishes and active trading (which outside of Lovett has been pretty good).

[BAM! (shhhh)]

To clarify, I certainly don't mean to be impatient at all. I'm quite content with the team we're running out week to week.

My thought is just given the deficiencies we can see in the games of Geary, Eddy (disposal), McQualter (gaining uncontested possessions), I'd have hoped that the opportunities these guys are taken would be taken by the early picks. Those are the guys that are someday supposed to step in and fill the void when our stars move on.

[older saint]

The great thing i like about RL and the situation St Kilda is in is that they canbe patient with players and play them when they are ready to play AFL.

No other sport as physical in the world has 18 year olds running around regularly playing - if at all. NFL generally drafted between 20-23, Rugby league - very few Isi Folua around, generally 20 when start hence the under 19 competition.

Armitage is the one who really needs to stand up as he has been in the system a longer time than others. Lynch - injured early this year a set back, Heyne , Stanley all starting to push in for games but expect them to be in an out. A Smith pushing but also in that next group

Walsh,McGrath, Winmar, Gaurtner, Simpkins, see next season.

The other thing to remember when you are ot drafting in the top 5-8 it is VERY unlikely if you are picking a kid that they will be ready to play and therefore you have the luxury of picking for the future to allow players to develop.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I think the thread got a little off track.

Any match reports? Or is there another thread I've missed?

I wandered in for the last quarter and was disappointed that we didn't manage to score another goal, despite the game being in the balance at 3/4 time.
No one really stood out in that time for us.
I went down to our defensive end, so I could get my first look of Tommy in the flesh since the intra-club game. He did OK, except for one skewiff kick off the side of the boot at one point. The other kick/kicks I saw him do were perfectly fine and didn't look awkward at all. The odd dodgy kick is understandable, but it's a great sign that he's perfectly capable the rest of the time. He already looks a much more natural kick than Setanta, for example. He also seemed to use his body well in marking contests, where he looked like was trying to work the guy under the ball (on the lead), with his body. I thought he may have been pinged for in the back a couple of times, but he got away with it. He looked to be limping late in the quarter and then went off, but fortunately came back on again. I have very high hopes for him, at either end.
Went in to the 3/4 time huddle when I arrived, to have a look and listen and Nick Winmar was standing very close by. He's pretty tall (for someone that plays on a flank/wing) and seems to have pretty broad shoulders/upper body, but very skinny legs, like Cuz. He has an unusual body type. I was surprised to see them give him a wrap in the paper the next morning, as I didn't remember him getting a touch in the quarter I was there.
I've got to say, the VFL is a world away from most of the games our senior guys play. As someone else noted, it was a bog (and a smelly one at that), with lots of mud in the centre square and around the half forward areas, in particular. Not exactly well suited to those who are hoping to push their way into the seniors by doing well in the air.
Another reason many of our younger guys may not be doing as well as those in other teams may be the fact that they generally don't get an early taste of senior footy. A lot of those with talent in other teams get a taste of senior AFL pretty early on and that taste would give them a real motivation to do really well when they drop back to the VFL.
Most of ours, on the other hand, just play week after week in the VFL and I reckon you'd have to be seriously self motivated, or really love your footy, to stay motivated to do well there. As I said, it was a smelly bog at Casey on Saturday, and although it was a beautiful day on this occasion, places like that can be frightfully cold and miserable in winter, when the ice-cold wind is whipping across, the rain is falling, it's cold and muddy and there are very few watching you (relatively). I could definitely see the benefits of giving them a small taste of senior footy every now and then, just to remind them what they're busting a gut for. If the "22nd picked" in the seniors isn't really nailing down their spot, or doing much, as ours isn't at the moment, I could see some merit in rotating some of the younger guys who may not quite deserve it, in that spot, for at least one game a season, unless someone does "nail down" that 22nd spot.