X and Goose

[joffaboy]

There has been much written about the way both X and Goose were allowed to leave the Saints during trade period last year.

Basically we got #60 for X and bugger all for Gooses.

As it panned out during the year with Zac's form down, there was much conjecture about letting Goose go.

Well it seems that Goose may be in trouble with his foot again, and from reports it sounds like the same problem that plagued him since that terrible broken leg. Up until then he was performing well for the Lions.

X hasn't been sighted for the Lyons.

Correct me if i am wrong, but we used the X pick on Jesse Smith. Smith has played four games back for Sandy but would be a long way off seniors at the moment.

With half a season behind us can we now make a call on whether it was correct or not in letting the pair go?

Pros: We are 8-3 in third, with the Lions way back in the pack. Jesse Smith is progressing well. Neither Goose or X will hurt us directly by the looks of it

Cons: We are thin down back, with Will Johnsone not coming on and Miles out indefinetly. Jesse Smith still no certainty to play seniors.

Over to you.

[ralphsmith]

Honestly, we didn't lose much, we didn't gain much.

I thought X's career was over a couple of years ago. His body just isn't right for AFL footy.

Goose, same thing i suppose.

[Dr Spaceman]

Cons: We are thin down back, with Will Johnsone not coming on and Miles out indefinetly. Jesse Smith still no certainty to play seniors.

This is probably a moot point if Goose is not going to be able to stand up.

[Moods]

Prior to the weekend it looked like a mistake trading Goose (even though it was Goose who asked for the trade) Goose has slimmed down, looks more athletic, and was starting to play similar to 04-06. Personally I couldn't believe it. HOWEVER, with the same type of injury rearing its head again on the weekend, it appears that we may have made the right call on him, whether that be by design or pure luck only the list management team really knows. By God we need another quality back up tall though. Can't believe that last year, no-one could get a look in, and this year I reckon Max would have virtually played every game he was available.

AS for X, impossible to make a call as he hasn't got out on the park yet. THis is surprising, as it's now over 12mths since he did his knee. If he has sustained further injuries since hurting his knee, well once again this probably justifies the decision to trade him.

[yipper]

Correct me if I am wrong - but Luke Miles played last week?? So he is now on the way back.

X still not playing at all I think, and Goose has been solid down back - but is now suffering from the same injury again. He went with our blessings and best wishes. But it looks like the hard call made on them both by Lyon was correct at this stage.

[Saints43]

AS for X, impossible to make a call as he hasn't got out on the park yet. THis is surprising, as it's now over 12mths since he did his knee. If he has sustained further injuries since hurting his knee, well once again this probably justifies the decision to trade him.

Raph - in the Victory Room - said that he expected X to be available for selection after the mid-season break. And when mentioned that they could line up on each other that he would expect and easy game.

[super dooper]

Goose has been in great form all year and it has been pleasing as a football spectator to see him do well. Lets hope his scans arent that bad, but it didnt look good on saturday night when the medicos were playing with his foot.

He has a history of breaking down when the whips get cracking in a season. I've heard from a reasonably reliable source that poor Goose still cannot feel his toes because of the damage of the nerves from the break all those years ago...

At the end of the day i still believe we made the right decision about goose as hard as it would have been. We're here to win finals, not simply contend hard decisions need to be made...

With X, well he is still out indefiently, this cannot be good for him or brisbane. It came across as a mutual agreement between the club and X and i think both parties needed the change. Picking up Jesse was a risk, in my eyes no different to having X on our list, time will tell with Jesse. jesse has a bit more time on his side so i think it is slightly in our favour.

Does anyone get the feeling X might pull the pin soon?

[SainterK]

Hope Goose is OK, thought it was finally going to be one of those happy ever afters for him. I am sure that playing his career on Etihad and now the Gabba, has done him no favours.

Michael Voss was always going to be under more pressure with the recruitment of Goose, than Ross with the letting him go IMO.

[Thinline]

Goose's form has been reasonable enough, but you'd expect a bloke who's been through what he's been through to play every game like it's his last. If he's broken down again, that's extremely sad for him, but it would certainly vindicate a fairly considered and tough decision on St K's part you'd reckon.

[ace]

Prior to the weekend it looked like a mistake trading Goose (even though it was Goose who asked for the trade) Goose has slimmed down, looks more athletic, and was starting to play similar to 04-06. Personally I couldn't believe it. HOWEVER, with the same type of injury rearing its head again on the weekend, it appears that we may have made the right call on him, whether that be by design or pure luck only the list management team really knows. By God we need another quality back up tall though. Can't believe that last year, no-one could get a look in, and this year I reckon Max would have virtually played every game he was available.

AS for X, impossible to make a call as he hasn't got out on the park yet. THis is surprising, as it's now over 12mths since he did his knee. If he has sustained further injuries since hurting his knee, well once again this probably justifies the decision to trade him.

Goose was never "traded".
He was the last minute cut from the squad prior to list lodgement and was taken by Brisbane in the national draft.
A list lodgement I might add that still included Luke Ball.
Goose was cut because the club wanted to try to retain Luke Ball.
That meant room needed for Ball on the list as well as room in the salary cap.

Ball cooked Maguire's goose at St Kilda.

[Saints43]

Honestly, we didn't lose much, we didn't gain much.

I thought X's career was over a couple of years ago. His body just isn't right for AFL footy.

I feel a bit sorry for X. I believe that if he entered the AFL system 5 years later he would have had a very different career.

I think we would all remember that when X came to the club he was fairly intimidated by the physical nature of the game at AFL level. The coaching staff then taught him to 'get his own ball' & 'take his turn'. It must have taken enormous courage to get involved in some of the contests he did considering that he was not naturallly that way inclined. His frame suffered in that environment.

In todays game he would be given a role suitable to his frame. He would still be expected to contest of course but it would be more on his terms. Instead of collision contests he would be set the challenge of tackling, harassing, 'spreading'.

There are far more lighter framed players having a bigger influence on the game now than in 2002-2006.

[ace]

Honestly, we didn't lose much, we didn't gain much.

I thought X's career was over a couple of years ago. His body just isn't right for AFL footy.

I feel a bit sorry for X. I believe that if he entered the AFL system 5 years later he would have had a very different career.

I think we would all remember that when X came to the club he was fairly intimidated by the physical nature of the game at AFL level. The coaching staff then taught him to 'get his own ball' & 'take his turn'. It must have taken enormous courage to get involved in some of the contests he did considering that he was not naturallly that way inclined. His frame suffered in that environment.

In todays game he would be given a role suitable to his frame. He would still be expected to contest of course but it would be more on his terms. Instead of collision contests he would be set the challenge of tackling, harassing, 'spreading'.

There are far more lighter framed players having a bigger influence on the game now than in 2002-2006.

If X had come to the club five years later he would have met a superior conditioning team and may have been taught to protect his hamstrings better.
Instead he joined a club with a 1970's neanderthal culture of "just go get the ball son", "if it hurts just play through the pain son".

[saint75]

I was sad to see both X and Goose go. However, I believe they were both the right calls. One of the pleasing (if not sad things) about RL's regime is that he doesn't allow players with ongoing injuries to hang around in the hopes they will come right. Half our problem under GT was the ongoing injuries to players. RL cuts what he sees as the 'dead wood'. We no longer keep injury plagued players in the hopes that they will come good.

1) Hamil was cut (opted to retire) due to his ongoing knee saga
2) Goose and X traded to Brisbane (both with ongoing issues that were not able to be resolved)

These are just 3 examples that immediately spring to mind. It does not matter how much 'potential' a player has if they cannot make it out onto the park to play.

[ausfatcat]

goose wasn't traded goose wasn't traded goose wasn't traded



there I said annoying people always say he was traded he left on his own choice to goto into the draft to try his luck

[Saints43]

Honestly, we didn't lose much, we didn't gain much.

I thought X's career was over a couple of years ago. His body just isn't right for AFL footy.

I feel a bit sorry for X. I believe that if he entered the AFL system 5 years later he would have had a very different career.

I think we would all remember that when X came to the club he was fairly intimidated by the physical nature of the game at AFL level. The coaching staff then taught him to 'get his own ball' & 'take his turn'. It must have taken enormous courage to get involved in some of the contests he did considering that he was not naturallly that way inclined. His frame suffered in that environment.

In todays game he would be given a role suitable to his frame. He would still be expected to contest of course but it would be more on his terms. Instead of collision contests he would be set the challenge of tackling, harassing, 'spreading'.

There are far more lighter framed players having a bigger influence on the game now than in 2002-2006.

If X had come to the club five years later he would have met a superior conditioning team and may have been taught to protect his hamstrings better.
Instead he joined a club with a 1970's neanderthal culture of "just go get the ball son", "if it hurts just play through the pain son".

To be fair to the 1970's neanderthal culture of the club we did establish a patnership with Monash University Centre for Biomedical Engineering from 2001 to specifically target the clubs incidence of hamstring injuries.

[bigcarl]

I know there's little room for sentiment in AFL. It's so ruthless that we left MAX HUDGHTON out of the finals last season, a decision I supported.

But I remember Goose at his best and he was just going to be anything ... courageous, tough, strong, creative ... a champion in the making.

If he has broken down again it just goes down as a tragedy (in football terms) and the club has made the correct call ... at least on his body's ability to stand up to the rigors of AFL football. Same goes for X.

[bigred]

hmmm.

Jess Smith could be in the mix for senior selection in the next six-eight weeks if he can stay on the park.

Shame about Goose and I sincerely wish him all the best.

I've heard whispers that X may have some OP issues....Again, I wish him well.

[bob__71]

Honestly, we didn't lose much, we didn't gain much.

I thought X's career was over a couple of years ago. His body just isn't right for AFL footy.

I feel a bit sorry for X. I believe that if he entered the AFL system 5 years later he would have had a very different career.

I think we would all remember that when X came to the club he was fairly intimidated by the physical nature of the game at AFL level. The coaching staff then taught him to 'get his own ball' & 'take his turn'. It must have taken enormous courage to get involved in some of the contests he did considering that he was not naturallly that way inclined. His frame suffered in that environment.

In todays game he would be given a role suitable to his frame. He would still be expected to contest of course but it would be more on his terms. Instead of collision contests he would be set the challenge of tackling, harassing, 'spreading'.

There are far more lighter framed players having a bigger influence on the game now than in 2002-2006.

If X had come to the club five years later he would have met a superior conditioning team and may have been taught to protect his hamstrings better.
Instead he joined a club with a 1970's neanderthal culture of "just go get the ball son", "if it hurts just play through the pain son".

To be fair to the 1970's neanderthal culture of the club we did establish a patnership with Monash University Centre for Biomedical Engineering from 2001 to specifically target the clubs incidence of hamstring injuries.

ohhh ahhh Monash University, Biomedical Engineering.

What was it an honours project or phd?

We are a professional organisation who should employ professionals with a proven track record. Not guinea pigs for a universtiy thesis.

[Saint Bev]

THe Goose story is extremely sad, we all wanted the fairy tale but it rearly happens in football.

From what I know we delisted him and X left of his own accord. I guess both were risks for Brisbane as Jesse Smith was for us. As they were late pics, it really doesn't matter.

With Goose breaking down again and Smith showing promise, at this stage it looks like the correct decisions were made.

No room for sentiment in footy, just as well its not left up to the fans to decide.

[bigcarl]

Jess Smith could be in the mix for senior selection in the next six-eight weeks if he can stay on the park.

let's hope his body is up to it. what were his injury issues, can anyone tell me?

[shmic_s]

We supposedly have one of the best fitness teams in the league, so i was quite comfortable with the call on Goose and X. Was great to see them get another shot and feel for Goose with his latest setback.

The Kangaroo's wanted Smith to stay on. He's younger and has alot more upside than X or Goose. Hopefully he'll be pushing for selection in the next few weeks.

Last year we had a bit of luck with injuries. This year the fitness guys are earning their money.

[Go Sainters Go]

It was sad seeing both X and Goose go because they were both great Club men who loved the St.Kilda Footy Club and everthing the Footy Club stood for.
How sad it was that Goose couldn't notch up his 100 games, a great disappointment to him. They both wanted the opportunity to continue to play senior footy which had sadly passed them by at StKilda due to their injuries and hope for their sakes those opportunities continue although it can't be looking great for them both at this stage.

[joffaboy]

Goose taken at #21 in the draft

Steve Johnson taken at #24 in the draft.

[Saints43]

Honestly, we didn't lose much, we didn't gain much.

I thought X's career was over a couple of years ago. His body just isn't right for AFL footy.

I feel a bit sorry for X. I believe that if he entered the AFL system 5 years later he would have had a very different career.

I think we would all remember that when X came to the club he was fairly intimidated by the physical nature of the game at AFL level. The coaching staff then taught him to 'get his own ball' & 'take his turn'. It must have taken enormous courage to get involved in some of the contests he did considering that he was not naturallly that way inclined. His frame suffered in that environment.

In todays game he would be given a role suitable to his frame. He would still be expected to contest of course but it would be more on his terms. Instead of collision contests he would be set the challenge of tackling, harassing, 'spreading'.

There are far more lighter framed players having a bigger influence on the game now than in 2002-2006.

If X had come to the club five years later he would have met a superior conditioning team and may have been taught to protect his hamstrings better.
Instead he joined a club with a 1970's neanderthal culture of "just go get the ball son", "if it hurts just play through the pain son".

To be fair to the 1970's neanderthal culture of the club we did establish a patnership with Monash University Centre for Biomedical Engineering from 2001 to specifically target the clubs incidence of hamstring injuries.

ohhh ahhh Monash University, Biomedical Engineering.

What was it an honours project or phd?

We are a professional organisation who should employ professionals with a proven track record. Not guinea pigs for a universtiy thesis.

Hamstring injuries
It is noticable that hamstring tear injuries also occur during eccentric exercise at long muscle length, when the hamstring muscles are used to brake the forward swing of the leg during sprinting. This caused us to speculate that the microscopic damage associated with delayed onset muscle soreness may initiate a gross muscle tear under certain conditions. This raises the possibility that eccentric exercise of the hamstring muscles may reduce hamstring injury rates, and that susceptable players may be identifiable from their hamstring angle torque curves.

This has been tested primarily with St Kilda Football club, who have seen their hamstring injury rates fall from 16 in 2001, to 4 in 2002, and 2 in 2003.

Is that incorrect, Bob?

[bigcarl]

Jess Smith could be in the mix for senior selection in the next six-eight weeks if he can stay on the park.

let's hope his body is up to it. what were his injury issues, can anyone tell me?