Lets be serious about Kosi

[bigcarl]

With respect it was not the forwards so much that were stuffing up, but the way that the ball was delivered into the forward line.

Time after time there was a forward in space to only see the ball delivered to his opponent.

Ball use is one of the main things we need to improve.

Note Lyon's comments on the second quarter.

i heard his comments. chicken and egg, etc.

i think there is a correlation between how directly and well we use the ball and who is presenting on the end of it.

we won well in the end, but it was pretty hairy for much of the game. we would have put them away a lot earlier with just one effective key forward.

but let's not get carried away with the win. the crows are 15th on the ladder and it took us until the last quarter to blow them out of the water.

[Bernard Shakey]

I'd love to see him come good take half a dozen contested marks and kick a couple of goals every week. It's just not happening and doesn't look like it will any time soon.

Rubbish.

You do not want to see kosi be successful.

You have made that patently obvious for years on here.

You recently posted that Kosi did not deserve to be in any St.Kilda premiership team.

You are absolutely obsessed with your all consuming hate for kosi.

Your obsession is really quite unhealthy and not a little bit scary.

As for kosi. Was very sad to see him so out of form last night. Really very poor.

only thing I can say is that he took the bestr backman, but do we want our key forward just as a decoy?

He's been out of form for as long as I can remember. Actually I can only remember 4 games when he's been in form.

I want another Saint's premiership, so obviously I want all players to play to their potential. It appears Kosi has no potential, therfore, I am amazed he is selected each week and does nothing. Must be unhealthy and a little bit scary for the rest of the team.

[rexy]

I am sure the rest of the team get behind and support there team mates, especially those who are 150 game players. Would be scary and unhealthy if the rest of the group were anything but supportive of the big man. Is a team, not a bunch of individuals critiqueing each others form.

[SainterK]

Only forwad down last night was Kosi. Stanley had a good game, the two smalls in Milne and Schneider kicked over a qtr of the toal score, and when our resting mids were down there (plus Jimmy) they all kicked goals.

kosi is the concern. he's supposed to be the focal point and he just isn't. it is low percentage and inefficient to go to him.

Is he though?

We don't actually know if that's the case, for all we know Ross may be telling the players to make the most of this time without Roo and to treat Kosi as a get out kick simply if you can't kick one yourself.

Just because Roo has and will kick bags, doesn't mean it was always the best thing for the team.

The win we had against Freo was fantastic, but on reflection, I believe our reliance on Goddard and Milne kicking 5 each was not exactly ideal that night.

The unpredictability of how the boys scored last night was a massive step forward, and I am starting to believe we may be in a better position when Roo returns than before he left.

[bigcarl]

The unpredictability of how the boys scored last night was a massive step forward, and I am starting to believe we may be in a better position when Roo returns than before he left.

this is what the bulldogs thought last season until they met us in the preliminary final.

never underestimate the value of a good key forward, particularly in finals and big games.

however, i agree that a good spread of goal-kickers is a very healthy sign and hopefully will leave us in a better position when riewoldt returns.

also remember that last night we were playing the 15th placed team on the ladder and they were right with us up to three quarter time.

[SainterK]

The unpredictability of how the boys scored last night was a massive step forward, and I am starting to believe we may be in a better position when Roo returns than before he left.

this is what the bulldogs thought last season until they met us in the preliminary final.

never underestimate the value of a good key forward, particularly in finals and big games.

however, i agree that a good spread of goal-kickers is a very healthy sign and hopefully will leave us in a better position when riewoldt returns.

also remember that last night we were playing the 15th placed team on the ladder and they were right with us up to three quarter time.

I assure you I am not underestimating a good key forward, I was just pointing out that Ross may be addressing a potential weakness in our side.

I know where you're coming from bigcarl, I do....and like you, I believe Ross knows he can send Goddard forward and kick a bag, I am just leaning towards the fact the Ross could be trying to work out other ways to win.

[bigcarl]

I know where you're coming from bigcarl, I do ... and like you, I believe Ross knows he can send Goddard forward and kick a bag, I am just leaning towards the fact the Ross could be trying to work out other ways to win.

i've no real complaints with that so long as we win enough games to finish top 4, preferably above fremantle. what we don't want is to be playing interstate finals.

[SainterK]

I know where you're coming from bigcarl, I do ... and like you, I believe Ross knows he can send Goddard forward and kick a bag, I am just leaning towards the fact the Ross could be trying to work out other ways to win.

i've no real complaints with that so long as we win enough games to finish top 4, preferably above fremantle. what we don't want is to be playing interstate finals.

Yep, and we are making good progress in ensuring this is the case. Let's agree that Ross knows when it will be the right time to panic and send BJ forward.

[bigcarl]

Let's agree that Ross knows when it will be the right time to panic and send BJ forward.

he's had to do it the past two weeks and we have won, so he has the timing right so far.

[SainterK]

Let's agree that Ross knows when it will be the right time to panic and send BJ forward.

he's had to do it the past two weeks and we have won, so he has the timing right so far.

Goddard said on Game Day today that he has been playing midfield pushing forward the last couple of weeks, and I think that's were we will see him for rest of the year (unless Ross has to push the red button)

[bigcarl]

I think that's were we will see him for rest of the year (unless Ross has to push the red button)

he should have pushed the red button in the essendon and port adelaide games, both of which we lost because of forward inefficiency. however, he now seems aware that the red button is there for a reason.

[To the top]

Still the same crap on this site?

Still attacking players significantly from what is seen on TV screens?

Kosi did a job against Adelaide as he does his job every week.

The problem was our small forwards, again, taking time to have an influence if have any influence at all.

Because they get plenty of opportunities with the defensive focus being on spoiling Kosi - and then the defenders run off down the ground with no pressure creating easy scoring opportunities at the other end.

Koschitzke is a 197cm utility player playing in the forward line - (and able to drift back to take defensive grabs) and he has the support of the likes of Milne, Schnieder and McQualter to feed off hands and to pressure the defenders looking to clear the ball from the area.

In the last 2 weeks he has had the support of Stanley and McEvoy and Gardiner going forward. So we are now going with 3 talls (Koschitzke the shortest at 197cm) in the forward line - as we saw on Saturday night again.

Plus Gwilt moving forward.

This has meant that our "smalls" are not matched up on bigger bodies and finding it difficult - and they have become more dangerous as we have evolved to 3 talls forward.

Much is made of Goddard's mark (and goal) but who was the screen to allow him to take that mark?

Who has holding back the 2 defenders whose objective was the player doing the team thing and creating the screen for Goddard to mark strongly in front?

And who protected the ball after being spoilt, holding the defenders off it except the "smalls" did not arrive to capitalise?

Adelaide eventually picked the ball up and off they went.

I do not know that the majority who comment on this forum know what football and playing in a team is all about.

It's the reason I stopped contributing - and defending.

Incidentally, how is Raph Clarke going?

It is pleasing to see that Baker is contributing in the disciplined way he is -
and given the right match up he still has a part to play including because of his physical approach to the contest which offsets his disposal limitations that need the support afforded him by his fellow defenders.

He can not be isolated with the ball. He, more than the other defenders, needs the get out option square or back in space.

The run and creativity of Gilbert and Clarke is superb - especially when combined with the skills of Fisher and the disposal efficiency of Gwilt. Blake is solid often playing above his height - as we saw on Saturdey night.

That brings me to Dawson.

In regards Dawson, we do not have anyone else to play that position at present because to play that position today you need the 195cm and pace as a spoiling asset.

So we need to persist.

The Eddy/Geary position needs a better option that these 2 who are both honest VFL footballers.

Armitage needs defensive chase - ie close the gap on the ball carrier to imply pressure.

Stanley, as the season evolves, will be very, very interesting including for defensive pressure. He is quick.

I will have another look in another couple of months to see if the same crap is being contributed.

Until then, enjoy!!

[bobmurray]

Still the same crap on this site?

I will have another look in another couple of months to see if the same crap is being contributed.

Until then, enjoy!!

whatever.....it's a fan forum, a place for discussion, a place to vent, a place for some to hang shite on under performing players......

see you for ya next whinge.....

[bigcarl]

The problem was our small forwards, again, taking time to have an influence if have any influence at all.

how have you seen milne's form this season?

[quidnunc]

With respect to Kosi - I am just frustrated to see the ball go through his hands when attempting to mark. If he held those ones we wouldn't be on page 6 of this thread.

Does anyone know if Kosi has a problem marking the ball at training.

I would be happier to see Kosi trying to mark with his hands flat out front so that if he misses the mark he is still in a position to contest on the ground with the ball in front of him - going through his hands, out the back puts him out of position and out of the contest.

[saint66au]

I thought our foward pressure still lacked a bit

We couldnt buy a contested mark inside 50. Every time we kicked it to the "hot spot" none of Kosi, Stanley, Mac or Gardy could grab a mark...nor could they seem to lock it in. Was whisked out far too often too quickly. Down the other end Tippett, Dangerfield and Maric all took big clunks against our defence

Yes its great that our mids and small forwards got us home, but against better sides you HAVE to be able to take contested marks inside 50. We took one for the night as I recall (Goddard) and AFAIK as of last week we were last in the comp at it since Roo was injured, trailing even Richmond

[SainterK]

With respect to Kosi - I am just frustrated to see the ball go through his hands when attempting to mark. If he held those ones we wouldn't be on page 6 of this thread.

Does anyone know if Kosi has a problem marking the ball at training.

I would be happier to see Kosi trying to mark with his hands flat out front so that if he misses the mark he is still in a position to contest on the ground with the ball in front of him - going through his hands, out the back puts him out of position and out of the contest.

I say bring back the glove...

[bigcarl]

Dropping him to Sandy wont do anything. Hell he might even play worse with them. I reckon swap Kosi and Gardiner in the ruck and leave Ben down forward.

if they're not going to put bj at ff, this may the be next best option.

kosi will play a lot better in the ruck. i'm certain of that.

[samoht]

Kosi to his credit gets himself into good positions to take 10 plus marks most games - but just needs to hold his marks .. like Tippet did.
Some confidence building in the VFL could help him.

Meanwhile Walsh looked pretty good in the VFL.

[Saint Bev]

I have read the last 6 pages. At the weekend we went down to Melb and was sitting in the Members area in front of the VIctory Room. To be honest it drove me nuts. What is wrong with people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO PASSION. We won this game eaisily, yet all they did was bag players. Obviously Koz and Zac.

I don't have a problem with people talking amongst themselves and saying they are not happy with how players are playing. But to abuse them over the fence when they can hear is nothing short of a disgrace and we told them so.

If you are going through a tough stage in your life, do you want your family and friends to support you or bag you?

Why can't we do the same for our players who are busting a gut out there. Both these players are obviously out of form, down on confidence but they still do alot at ground level and backing up and helping their team mates.

I think to drop them would do more harm than good.

St Kilda supporters like to think they are a bit better than other supporters because of what we have had to go through over the years. But I am often horrified at our behaviour. For gods sake, get behind the players and cheer them on. Instead of sitting there like a bunch of zombies.

Rant over

I did have a good weekend, in fact it was great.

[degruch]

Kosi to his credit gets himself into good positions to take 10 plus marks most games - but just needs to hold his marks .. like Tippet did.

That's very true...and Tippett had been pretty attrocious recently too (his kicking is still pretty bad, luckily), so just goes to show how quickly it can turn around. Not worth dropping him, persistance is the key...besides, there's no-one of his ilk to replace him, and other options haven't worked out. I'd be happy to see him continue to make a contest, crash packs, or just draw opposition from Stanley, Big Mac or BJ to be honest.

[roxanne]

Good to see someone acknowledge the work Kosi does do out there (To the Top) however his ability to take the contested mark has always been a weapon for us. And it's gone missing. I wonder if his hand injury from last year is still having an effect? I have great faith in Kosi. I know he'll come good.

[35...LEGEND]

Good to see someone acknowledge the work Kosi does do out there (To the Top) however his ability to take the contested mark has always been a weapon for us. And it's gone missing. I wonder if his hand injury from last year is still having an effect? I have great faith in Kosi. I know he'll come good.

Commented in a thread straight after game Sat that Kos had to be just about gone...............

Change of heart.............it's Richmond FCOL !!!

This week for Kosi

He'll throw them little Tiggers around like rag doll's...

It's now or.................

Off to the TAB Fri........Kos for most goals in game....should get 4s maybe 5s.

I gotta feelin.

Come on Big Fella.

[saint66au]

I have read the last 6 pages. At the weekend we went down to Melb and was sitting in the Members area in front of the VIctory Room. To be honest it drove me nuts. What is wrong with people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO PASSION. We won this game eaisily, yet all they did was bag players. Obviously Koz and Zac.

I don't have a problem with people talking amongst themselves and saying they are not happy with how players are playing. But to abuse them over the fence when they can hear is nothing short of a disgrace and we told them so.

If you are going through a tough stage in your life, do you want your family and friends to support you or bag you?

Why can't we do the same for our players who are busting a gut out there. Both these players are obviously out of form, down on confidence but they still do alot at ground level and backing up and helping their team mates.

I think to drop them would do more harm than good.

St Kilda supporters like to think they are a bit better than other supporters because of what we have had to go through over the years. But I am often horrified at our behaviour. For gods sake, get behind the players and cheer them on. Instead of sitting there like a bunch of zombies.

Rant over

I did have a good weekend, in fact it was great.

+1.

The "Get him {Raph/Kosi/Zac} off the ground he's USELESS!!" brigade annoy me 100 times more than any opposition supporter ever could...and these same people will bask in our Premieship glory and/or whinge they cant get GF tix after theye followed the Club for 157 years

[starsign]

With respect to Kosi - I am just frustrated to see the ball go through his hands when attempting to mark. If he held those ones we wouldn't be on page 6 of this thread.

Does anyone know if Kosi has a problem marking the ball at training.

I would be happier to see Kosi trying to mark with his hands flat out front so that if he misses the mark he is still in a position to contest on the ground with the ball in front of him - going through his hands, out the back puts him out of position and out of the contest.

Nailed it in one !!
My thoughts exactly
obviously kozi is down on confidence!!....that's a given !
Whats his greatest attribute?...strong pack mark !

(OK forget for a moment the argument that makes him a one trick Pony and the game maybe has passed him by....the fackt is I recon with our set up minus Roo at present we need what he DOES contibute in the absence of a real viable alternative )

What have we repeatedly seen of late?

All too often the ball slipping straight through the Kozs' hands when in great position and would normally swallow for breakfast!!

I had a go on the topic earlier and haven't changed my mind on that he won't be dropped this week for reasons previously stated

If he can start taking those sitters he's missing now regularly he's gunna be back in town
If not they have little option but to drop him until he regains this attribute ....

How long do you give him???
How long is a piece of string ??
He's not going to be dropped For Mine!!
There is at this stage no percentage advantage on a number of fronts by replacing him with the rapidly improving , potential Tommy Gun

I know its an irksome delima for some, but really we gotta go with the status quo at the moment and my money is on RL to keep him where he is at present