Stanley

[samoht]

Stanley is playing an important role forward ,along with McEvoy and Heyne, in that they are allowing our midfield and backline structure to remain intact.

Consequently we are "leaking" less goals... leaking 3 less goals equates to kicking 3 more.

It also allows Goddard to play an important cameo role by moving forward when the game warrants it thereby dragging his midfield sized opponent with him - who he can then exploit and monster, as there are few midfielders as strong as Goddard.

That could be the best way to use Goddard - i.e. mainly as a midfielder and part-time high impact forward.

[saintly]

just tell me why, he wasn't used earlier then round 9?

the sturcture have been mucked up for 4 weeks now.

[St Chris]

just tell me why, he wasn't used earlier then round 9?

the sturcture have been mucked up for 4 weeks now.

Good point. Not sure why it took this long??

Maybe because our form in the first couple of rounds was good enough when Fisher wasn't playing, so he thought we could afford to use him forward. But that was 2 months ago now, and the form had dropped off significantly since then.

From what we saw yesterday there is enough there to suggest Stanley will be a good player, but will take time. I really hope he gets a good run until Roo is back.

[bob__71]

just tell me why, he wasn't used earlier then round 9?

the sturcture have been mucked up for 4 weeks now.

Maybe because his form in the magoos didnt warrent it.

[The Fireman]

when he puts on a bit of muscle he will be ultra important for us.
I would use him in a spoiling role in defence (ala Dustin Fletcher) which probaly would allow us to drop Zac for a spell.

The Kids quick and tall.

[plugger66]

when he puts on a bit of muscle he will be ultra important for us.
I would use him in a spoiling role in defence (ala Dustin Fletcher) which probaly would allow us to drop Zac for a spell.

The Kids quick and tall.

So you want to replace a FB with someone who has never played there. That isnt going to happen especially since we lack another tall forward.

[Bernard Shakey]

when he puts on a bit of muscle he will be ultra important for us.
I would use him in a spoiling role in defence (ala Dustin Fletcher) which probaly would allow us to drop Zac for a spell.

The Kids quick and tall.

So you want to replace a FB with someone who has never played there. That isnt going to happen especially since we lack another tall forward.

Probably because anyone would be better than Zac.
Zac will play for Sandy this week and Stanley will play forward for St Kilda.

[lendog heaven]

which ever way you look at it Rhys is going to be a nightmare match up for opposition coaches

[shmic_s]

when he puts on a bit of muscle he will be ultra important for us.
I would use him in a spoiling role in defence (ala Dustin Fletcher) which probaly would allow us to drop Zac for a spell.

The Kids quick and tall.

So you want to replace a FB with someone who has never played there. That isnt going to happen especially since we lack another tall forward.

Probably because anyone would be better than Zac.
Zac will play for Sandy this week and Stanley will play forward for St Kilda.

How's Will Johnson's form been in the backline for Sandy? Thought he was recruited as a the man to pressure for Zac's spot. Or Gaertner?

[Bernard Shakey]

when he puts on a bit of muscle he will be ultra important for us.
I would use him in a spoiling role in defence (ala Dustin Fletcher) which probaly would allow us to drop Zac for a spell.

The Kids quick and tall.

So you want to replace a FB with someone who has never played there. That isnt going to happen especially since we lack another tall forward.

Probably because anyone would be better than Zac.
Zac will play for Sandy this week and Stanley will play forward for St Kilda.

How's Will Johnson's form been in the backline for Sandy? Thought he was recruited as a the man to pressure for Zac's spot. Or Gaertner?

Will was great last year, not so good this year.
Gaertner has been pretty good but still a rookie and no sign he's going to be elevated anytime soon.

[shmic_s]

Cheers BS

[Moccha]

when he puts on a bit of muscle he will be ultra important for us.
I would use him in a spoiling role in defence (ala Dustin Fletcher) which probaly would allow us to drop Zac for a spell.

The Kids quick and tall.

So you want to replace a FB with someone who has never played there. That isnt going to happen especially since we lack another tall forward.

Probably because anyone would be better than Zac.
Zac will play for Sandy this week and Stanley will play forward for St Kilda.

I think you're right

[kosifantutti23]

Gaertner has been pretty good but still a rookie and no sign he's going to be elevated anytime soon.

What sign are you expecting? Usually the sign is that they are picked in the team on a Thursday and the rookie elevation announcement is made at the same time.

I'm not commenting on Gaertner's form here, just the rookie elevation process.

[claystreet]

just tell me why, he wasn't used earlier then round 9?

the sturcture have been mucked up for 4 weeks now.

I thought he would have played the week before against the bombers, i aslo think he will play a few in a row now as a forward target.

Am liking what i see..

[plugger66]

when he puts on a bit of muscle he will be ultra important for us.
I would use him in a spoiling role in defence (ala Dustin Fletcher) which probaly would allow us to drop Zac for a spell.

The Kids quick and tall.

So you want to replace a FB with someone who has never played there. That isnt going to happen especially since we lack another tall forward.

Probably because anyone would be better than Zac.
Zac will play for Sandy this week and Stanley will play forward for St Kilda.

You didnt answer me why Zac would be dropped this week after one goal kicked on him when they kept him after having 7 kicked on him the week before. Also I think you know a bit about footy and RL acknowledged that the backline structure will stay pretty much the same so if Zac goes who from the seconds will play FB as he seems unlikely to move another backman there?

[Wrote for Luck]

Forward tackle count:

Stanley 3
McQualter 5
Heyne 5
Koz 4
Schneider 5
Milne 2

24 tackles. Excellent. 89 total. Excellent.

(CJ had 14 tackles!)

[bigcarl]

Forward tackle count:

Stanley 3
McQualter 5
Heyne 5
Koz 4
Schneider 5
Milne 2

24 tackles. Excellent. 89 total. Excellent.

(CJ had 14 tackles!)

those are nice stats, but a more important one is how often they get the ball.

mcqualter hardly got a sniff and kosi wasn't great either.

i excuse stanley and heyne on the grounds that they are beginners.

the other stat that is very important for forwards is "goals kicked".

again kosi and mcqualter contributed little and again i excuse stanley and heyne on the grounds that they are beginners.

[SainterK]

Forward tackle count:

Stanley 3
McQualter 5
Heyne 5
Koz 4
Schneider 5
Milne 2

24 tackles. Excellent. 89 total. Excellent.

(CJ had 14 tackles!)

I think if you looked, most of them would of been from half way through the third quarter onwards. The intensity was so high, it seemed like the forward pressure from last year had returned.

[bob__71]

Forward tackle count:

Stanley 3
McQualter 5
Heyne 5
Koz 4
Schneider 5
Milne 2

24 tackles. Excellent. 89 total. Excellent.

(CJ had 14 tackles!)

those are nice stats, but a more important one is how often they get the ball.

mcqualter hardly got a sniff and kosi wasn't great either.

i excuse stanley and heyne on the grounds that they are beginners.

the other stat that is very important for forwards is "goals kicked".

again kosi and mcqualter contributed little and again i excuse stanley and heyne on the grounds that they are beginners.

Another important stat is which team wins. I think the number of tackles had a lot to do with "StKilda 4 points."

I excuse u for being a stick in the mud.

[SainterK]

Forward tackle count:

Stanley 3
McQualter 5
Heyne 5
Koz 4
Schneider 5
Milne 2

24 tackles. Excellent. 89 total. Excellent.

(CJ had 14 tackles!)

those are nice stats, but a more important one is how often they get the ball.

mcqualter hardly got a sniff and kosi wasn't great either.

i excuse stanley and heyne on the grounds that they are beginners.

the other stat that is very important for forwards is "goals kicked".

again kosi and mcqualter contributed little and again i excuse stanley and heyne on the grounds that they are beginners.

Another important stat is which team wins. I think the number of tackles had a lot to do with "StKilda 4 points."

I excuse u for being a stick in the mud.

I agree the tackles after halftime were a return to 'saints footy' and will give them a lot of confidence given the result.

The conditions also allowed our guys to take shots that they have been hesitant to take, which I hope builds their confidence in doing so more often.

Not sure I would of wanted them to find a target inside 50 more often to be honest, I like how it ended up.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Forward tackle count:

Stanley 3
McQualter 5
Heyne 5
Koz 4
Schneider 5
Milne 2

24 tackles. Excellent. 89 total. Excellent.

(CJ had 14 tackles!)

those are nice stats, but a more important one is how often they get the ball.

mcqualter hardly got a sniff and kosi wasn't great either.

i excuse stanley and heyne on the grounds that they are beginners.

the other stat that is very important for forwards is "goals kicked".

again kosi and mcqualter contributed little and again i excuse stanley and heyne on the grounds that they are beginners.

Disposals? Is there a meaningful correlation between disposals and goals? There's a correlation between disposals and winning, but I'd be surprised to attribute it to forwards.

I'd tend to think disposals for forwards would be symptomatic of two things:
1) coming up the ground and/or getting a run through the midfield.
2) Team Inside 50s.

When I look at a forward, there are 4 things I tend to be interested in:
Goals - correlates to winning even better than disposals
Assists - especially in contested footy today, the guy who releases the goal kicker is gold.
Marks - leads to shots and inside 50s.
Tackles - is the closest measure of pressure we have (though it should be noted that the tackle stat only reflects one of several possible positive outcomes of pressure - I'd be very curious to know if the Saints coaching staff uses metrics here not available to the public).

If really looking to compare players, take into account:
inside 50s - means the forward has come outside 50 for the ball, but put it into the dangerous area.
efficiency - hardest part of the ground to use the ball well... barring mark & goal, which is the best use possible.
contested possessions, and contested marks - wherever on the ground the occur, they're great for the team, so always happy to see these stats.

So if I'm going to look at the forwards vs. WCE:
Kosi - 1 goal, 0 assists, 5 marks 4 tackles. I want to see more goals, and more marks. 4 tackles from a FF is sensational... but goals and assists are my 2 biggest requests of a big man.

Milne - 3 goals, 1 assist, 6 Marks, 2 tackles. That's a good game.

Mini - 0 goals, 2 assists, 3 marks, 5 tackles. It's a pass... prefer to see at least 1 goal, but there's contibution in that line. Also note that while Mini only had 7 touches, they all hit targets. From a forward, that's an outlier...

Schneider: 2 goals, 3 assists, 3 marks, and 5 tackles. That's a better game than Milne.

McEvoy - 2 goals, 0 assists, 6 marks (4 contested!), 2 tackles. Game turning stuff.

Gardiner - 1 goal, 0 assists, 3 marks, 0 tackles. Mainly included to point out that McEvoy had a much bigger impact on the scoreline.

Stanley - 0 goals, 2 assists, 3 marks, 3 tackles. From a 1st game tall, that's a pass for me - dropped a couple of easy marks on the wings early, but got better as the game went on.

Heyne - 0 goals, 0 assists, 1 Mark (contested), 5 tackles. Says to me that he held on (5 tackles), but didn't contribute (scoreboard pressure and ball retention).

The reason we scored was Hayes and Goddard (Hayes had a goal and 2 assists, Goddard a goal and 3 assists), supported by Dal Santo and Farren Ray (both hit the scoreboard). Our forwardline did enough and no more.

Excusing Stanley and Heyne on the basis of being kids isn't good enough if we're playing to win - unless we expect the midfield to cast that big a shadow every week. For mine, Stanley's a pass, Heyne's a passenger, and Kosi needs to lift, but we're not swimming in options (unless we want to bring in a defender and push up Dawson?). By and large, the forwardline was probably the most functional it's been in weeks.

[bigcarl]

By and large, the forwardline was probably the most functional it's been in weeks.

in the first half it wasn't.

we went inside 50 eight more times than them and trailed by a goal at half time.

our comeback coincided with goddard being moved forward in the third and mcevoy taking a couple of telling marks inside 50, something kosi has not been managing.

mcqualter was poor again and will be lucky to hold his spot.

i'm not convinced about heyne yet, either. but since you cut stanley a bit of slack for being a first game kid i'm prepared to do the same for a second game kid in heyne.

and yes, i think a forward's primary function is to get the ball and kick a goal (or dish it off to someone who can). after that comes tackling and defensive pressure.

[saintsRrising]

While many factors contribute to a win....IMO our structures being right greatly helped.

We started the game butchering the ball like we did against the Dons, but in the second half our handball and kicks improved.

In the first half even though many hit the target they wee high and wide...causing fumbles.

Having two genuine talls for me improves the structure. Having BJ plus the two talls gives a very balanced forward line (though BJ should IMO rotate between forward line and midfield).

Add to this that Ben was landing his marks and you get a better balanced forward line. earlier this year Ben was not holding his marks. He is only a so so ruckman at present and so to earn his place he needs to earn his place by taking marks around the ground.

He took 4 contested marks. WCE took I believe 3 in total!!


So IMO with two tall forwards, BJ at times forward, Ben holding his marks and drifting forward, with a solid backlline and midfield we had our best balance team fora long time.


IMO our two weak links were our bookends in Kosi and Zac. Zac was dreadful. Kosi was so-so.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

By and large, the forwardline was probably the most functional it's been in weeks.

in the first half it wasn't.

we went inside 50 eight more times than them and trailed by a goal at half time.

our comeback coincided with goddard being moved forward in the third and mcevoy taking a couple of telling marks inside 50, something kosi has not been managing.

mcqualter was poor again and will be lucky to hold his spot.

i'm not convinced about heyne yet, either. but since you cut stanley a bit of slack for being a first game kid i'm prepared to do the same for a second game kid in heyne.

and yes, i think a forward's primary function is to get the ball and kick a goal (or dish it off to someone who can). after that comes tackling and defensive pressure.

Main reason I'm willing to cut Stanley some slack is structure and (unfortunately) Justin Koschitzke. Kosi's marking is IMO the biggest reason we're not kicking deep. No coincidence that once McEvoy and Goddard take a couple of grabs that the ball gets deeper, and the forward structure looks better.

So Heyne I'm thinking might get dropped because he's visibly VFL calibre at the moment. Kosi would be in trouble if we had anyone who could fill the role (and McEvoy + Stanley may just present that threat). Mini I think is getting by - i rate assists almost on par with goals, he's 2nd on the team (behind Goddard, I do wish Mini were a bit hungrier to score them himself), and IMO far more important than he gets credit for. Get the ball deep, and his numbers will right themselves - and more importantly, so will our offensive totals.

[bigcarl]

Main reason I'm willing to cut Stanley some slack is structure and (unfortunately) Justin Koschitzke. Kosi's marking is IMO the biggest reason we're not kicking deep. No coincidence that once McEvoy and Goddard take a couple of grabs that the ball gets deeper, and the forward structure looks better.

agree