Matchwinners

[markp]

BJ and Milne kicked 5 goals each in round 4 against freo.



Oh, and Gram had 5 inside 50's against carlton.

[Milan Faletic]

Kosi had a chance last week to be a match winner.

Had he kicked straight and held a couple of the marks he dropped...

Kosi could have quite easily kicked 5 maybe 6, which would have got us over the line.

Kosi has never kicked 6. Even when GT was the coach.

Like markp, I said in a previous post on this thread that BJ is capable. Kosi needs crumbers around him because teams exploit his lack of second efforts as Essendon did last week.

[SaintSimmo]

Under RF opinion of match winners we still have as many as back in the early 2000's. This is RF way of being negative without it look like he is being.

Todays match winners are
Rooy
Milne
Kosi
Lenny]
Dal
BJ
Joey


Pretty similar really so yes we still have match winners.

Got anything else to try and prove we are worse now than early to mid 2000's.

Agreed + schneider

[rodgerfox]

Under RF opinion of match winners we still have as many as back in the early 2000's. This is RF way of being negative without it look like he is being.

Todays match winners are
Rooy
Milne
Kosi
Lenny]
Dal
BJ
Joey


Pretty similar really so yes we still have match winners.

Got anything else to try and prove we are worse now than early to mid 2000's.

Agreed + schneider

Schneider isn't a matchwinner. The closest he's been was one fateful night 5 years ago.

Joey definitely isn't.


The others, well they either have been or could be. So why aren't they?

[rodgerfox]

So where is the RF strategy for all these instant extra matchwinners?


Yes I agree if we had Gablett, Sandilands, Pavlich, Scarlett it would be great. How do we get them? Please outline?

PS: Can I have the tats number too as some extra cash would be handy.
I had some in 02/03, but more now please....

If you'd bothered to read the thread, before embarrassingly responding in your usual patronising way - you'd notice that we still have 5 on the list.

[maverick]

Kosi had a chance last week to be a match winner.

Had he kicked straight and held a couple of the marks he dropped...

Kosi could have quite easily kicked 5 maybe 6, which would have got us over the line.

Thankfully, someone understands footy.


You don't need a matchwinner every week. Ideally, your core game plan and the fundamentals you practice over the pre-season and every night on the track is what wins you most of your games.

However, there are the ones when you need that edge. The ones where you need someone to stand up and take it upon themselves and win it off their own boot.

Ones such as the final against the Dogs. The final against Collingwood, and the Grand Final.

The ones when it came to down to difference between the teams being one guy - Roo.


The last time I can remember us having a matchwinning performance from a 'matchwinner' aside from Roo was when Milne kicked 7 to get us over the line against the Tigers in 08.



I can't believe this place sometimes.

First it's people arguing we don't rely on Roo - now suddenly everyone acknowledges this.

Next it's people arguing we aren't in a form slump. Now suddenly it's clear that we are.

Now, people are arguing my point that we don't need matchwinners???

Get real.


This is so clearly an area we need to address to be a genuine contender again.

I would have thought not many actually agree with you.
I also would have thought that very few didn't think we relied on Roo, just that it was unhealthy.
You talk the utmost BS and spin everything into I was right, anyone that doesn't agree doesn't know footy, and then you wonder why some on here think you are GT, go figure....

[rodgerfox]

I would have thought not many actually agree with you.
I also would have thought that very few didn't think we relied on Roo, just that it was unhealthy.

That doesn't make sense.

You talk the utmost BS and spin everything into I was right

Rubbish. I reckon I've only ever done the 'I told you so' 2 or 3 times in the 7 years I've been on this site.

anyone that doesn't agree doesn't know footy

Even more rubbish than the previous one.

I very, very rarely deride anyone's opinions. I deride smarrt arses who constantly try to hijack and 'shoot down' any thread or post I make - but never legitmate football opinions.

That's just bullshiit.

and then you wonder why some on here think you are GT

Even more crap.

I couldn't give a shiit who people think I am. And I've never wondered why people think I'm GT. I couldn't care less.

I don't care who anyone else is. I just read their views as posters on a forum.

I actually think it's weird and unwholesome for posters to care who other posters 'really are'.

For what it's worth, I bet I'm one of the very few who use their real name.

[Leo.J]

Kosi had a chance last week to be a match winner.

Had he kicked straight and held a couple of the marks he dropped...

Kosi could have quite easily kicked 5 maybe 6, which would have got us over the line.

Kosi has never kicked 6. Even when GT was the coach.

Like markp, I said in a previous post on this thread that BJ is capable. Kosi needs crumbers around him because teams exploit his lack of second efforts as Essendon did last week.

Kosi got first hands on plenty last week he just didn't hold them, when he gets his touch back he has the potential to be a match winner.

I agree with the concept of the Saints needing a match winner to step up.
I'm not sure the game plan has anything to do with it though.

I just think that we had pretty much the same team on the park for a long time, we don't have that luxury atm, and we are just getting used to having to dig deeper and tweak things to get a win.

One of our strengths last year was how efficient and routine we went about our business, everyone knew where to go and where to be.

With a few key players out and the new faces, we don't have that same precision.

IMO it will come we just need to settle, our game plan will be pretty similar, as it was last year, the new positions and roles that are within that game plan may take a while to gel.

[rodgerfox]

Kosi has never kicked 6. Even when GT was the coach.

Kicking 5 as a ruckman is almost the equivalent of kicking 14 as a forward.

[plugger66]

Kosi has never kicked 6. Even when GT was the coach.

Kicking 5 as a ruckman is almost the equivalent of kicking 14 as a forward.

What are you smoking today? So MG kicked the equivalent of 9 goals last week. When do we get the points for that win then.

[rodgerfox]

Kosi has never kicked 6. Even when GT was the coach.

Kicking 5 as a ruckman is almost the equivalent of kicking 14 as a forward.

What are you smoking today? So MG kicked the equivalent of 9 goals last week. When do we get the points for that win then.

No. Kicking 3 as a ruckman is a good performance - but not a match winning one. Especially considering his opponent kicked 2 or 3 aswell.

Gardiner's game was probably the equivalent to a forward kicking 4 or 5 and his opponent setting up or having a hand in the same amount.


For a ruckman to be so dominant as to kick 5 goals is a matchwinning performance likened to a forward a kicking a huge bag.

The response was to someone suggesting that because Kosi has only ever kicked 5 he perhaps shouldn't be in the 'matchwinners' category.

I was pointing out that for a ruckman to kick 5, cannot be directly compared to a forward kicking 5.


Again, pretty simple stuff.

[plugger66]

Kosi has never kicked 6. Even when GT was the coach.

Kicking 5 as a ruckman is almost the equivalent of kicking 14 as a forward.

What are you smoking today? So MG kicked the equivalent of 9 goals last week. When do we get the points for that win then.

No. Kicking 3 as a ruckman is a good performance - but not a match winning one. Especially considering his opponent kicked 2 or 3 aswell.

Gardiner's game was probably the equivalent to a forward kicking 4 or 5 and his opponent setting up or having a hand in the same amount.


For a ruckman to be so dominant as to kick 5 goals is a matchwinning performance likened to a forward a kicking a huge bag.

The response was to someone suggesting that because Kosi has only ever kicked 5 he perhaps shouldn't be in the 'matchwinners' category.

I was pointing out that for a ruckman to kick 5, cannot be directly compared to a forward kicking 5.


Again, pretty simple stuff.

What are you on. Firstly has Kosi kicked 5 whilst rucking all game for a start. I doubt it very much.

And 3 for a ruckman is worth 4 or 5 but an extra 2 makes it worth 14. Well that is the most amazing thing i have ever read.

[markp]

And 3 for a ruckman is worth 4 or 5 but an extra 2 makes it worth 14. Well that is the most amazing thing i have ever read.

Not really... the first goal is worth 1 goal, the second one is worth 2 (3), the 3rd on is worth another 2 (5), the 4th one is worth 4 (9), the 5th one is worth 5 (14), and so on. It's perfectly logical.

Just as Milne and BJ kicking 5 each against freo, added to the fact that they each had a goal assist, and goals being at more of a premium in games during the current 'defensive era', and if you also take into account their respective ages and usual playing positions, means that Milne actually kicked the equivalent of 9.2 goals and BJ 12.3 during that game.

Pretty simple stuff... though it'd be easier to explain with a graph.

[rodgerfox]

And 3 for a ruckman is worth 4 or 5 but an extra 2 makes it worth 14. Well that is the most amazing thing i have ever read.

Hille kicked 4 you know.

[plugger66]

And 3 for a ruckman is worth 4 or 5 but an extra 2 makes it worth 14. Well that is the most amazing thing i have ever read.

Not really... the first goal is worth 1 goal, the second one is worth 2 (3), the 3rd on is worth another 2 (5), the 4th one is worth 4 (9), the 5th one is worth 5 (14), and so on. It's perfectly logical.

Just as Milne and BJ kicking 5 each against freo, added to the fact that they each had a goal assist, and goals being at more of a premium in games during the current 'defensive era', and if you also take into account their respective ages and usual playing positions, means that Milne actually kicked the equivalent of 9.2 goals and BJ 12.3 during that game.

Pretty simple stuff... though it'd be easier to explain with a graph.

Now i get it. RF just wasnt explaining himslf that well. Pretty simple stuff really.

[rodgerfox]

And 3 for a ruckman is worth 4 or 5 but an extra 2 makes it worth 14. Well that is the most amazing thing i have ever read.

Not really... the first goal is worth 1 goal, the second one is worth 2 (3), the 3rd on is worth another 2 (5), the 4th one is worth 4 (9), the 5th one is worth 5 (14), and so on. It's perfectly logical.

Just as Milne and BJ kicking 5 each against freo, added to the fact that they each had a goal assist, and goals being at more of a premium in games during the current 'defensive era', and if you also take into account their respective ages and usual playing positions, means that Milne actually kicked the equivalent of 9.2 goals and BJ 12.3 during that game.

Pretty simple stuff... though it'd be easier to explain with a graph.

I'm unsure why you are talking about Milne and Goddard kicking 5 the other week.

Are you supporting my argument that teams require matchwinners? Do you think everyone just playing their roles would have got us over the line in that match without matchwinning performances from individual players?

Imagine if one of them had have kicked 5 against Essendon or Port?

[plugger66]

And 3 for a ruckman is worth 4 or 5 but an extra 2 makes it worth 14. Well that is the most amazing thing i have ever read.

Hille kicked 4 you know.

Yes correct as a FF so what is your point? Do you think RL should have played gardiner at FB?

[markp]

And Gram had 5 inside 50's against carlton.

[plugger66]

And Gram had 5 inside 50's against carlton.

Yes that is fascinating still.

[markp]

And 3 for a ruckman is worth 4 or 5 but an extra 2 makes it worth 14. Well that is the most amazing thing i have ever read.

Not really... the first goal is worth 1 goal, the second one is worth 2 (3), the 3rd on is worth another 2 (5), the 4th one is worth 4 (9), the 5th one is worth 5 (14), and so on. It's perfectly logical.

Just as Milne and BJ kicking 5 each against freo, added to the fact that they each had a goal assist, and goals being at more of a premium in games during the current 'defensive era', and if you also take into account their respective ages and usual playing positions, means that Milne actually kicked the equivalent of 9.2 goals and BJ 12.3 during that game.

Pretty simple stuff... though it'd be easier to explain with a graph.

I'm unsure why you are talking about Milne and Goddard kicking 5 the other week.

Are you supporting my argument that teams require matchwinners? Do you think everyone just playing their roles would have got us over the line in that match without matchwinning performances from individual players?

Imagine if one of them had have kicked 5 against Essendon or Port?

Imagine if five separate players had kicked a goal (or another goal) each against essendon.

Mind blowing, I know.

I'm working on a graph that explains how when we -as a team- kick more goals than our opponents (regardless of who actually kicks them), we usually win.

Just collecting the data and cutting out the crepe paper as we speak.

[Wrote for Luck]

CJ can be a match winner.

[rodgerfox]

And 3 for a ruckman is worth 4 or 5 but an extra 2 makes it worth 14. Well that is the most amazing thing i have ever read.

Do you think this game is better than this game?

Gardiner - 15 disposals, 3 goals 1, 6 marks, 0 tackles and 23 hitouts

is better than this one.....

Koschitzke - 18 disposals, 5 goals 2, 10 marks, 4 tackles and 18 hitouts

Kosi is capable of being a matchwinner. He's done it before. His game, with 5 goals from the ruck, in matchwinning terms is the equivalent of a forward kicking a huge bag.

Gardiners, was Ok. Pretty good. For a forward to play a pretty good game, I think would translate to a bag of 4 or 5 with his opponent playing a really good game aswell.


If you're suggesting it's an exact equation, then frankly you're either once again just trying to be a smarrt arrse, or you're simple.

[rodgerfox]

And 3 for a ruckman is worth 4 or 5 but an extra 2 makes it worth 14. Well that is the most amazing thing i have ever read.

Not really... the first goal is worth 1 goal, the second one is worth 2 (3), the 3rd on is worth another 2 (5), the 4th one is worth 4 (9), the 5th one is worth 5 (14), and so on. It's perfectly logical.

Just as Milne and BJ kicking 5 each against freo, added to the fact that they each had a goal assist, and goals being at more of a premium in games during the current 'defensive era', and if you also take into account their respective ages and usual playing positions, means that Milne actually kicked the equivalent of 9.2 goals and BJ 12.3 during that game.

Pretty simple stuff... though it'd be easier to explain with a graph.

I'm unsure why you are talking about Milne and Goddard kicking 5 the other week.

Are you supporting my argument that teams require matchwinners? Do you think everyone just playing their roles would have got us over the line in that match without matchwinning performances from individual players?

Imagine if one of them had have kicked 5 against Essendon or Port?

Imagine if five separate players had kicked a goal (or another goal) each against essendon.

Mind blowing, I know.

I'm working on a graph that explains how when we -as a team- kick more goals than our opponents (regardless of who actually kicks them), we usually win.

Just collecting the data and cutting out the crepe paper as we speak.

If 5 separate players players had kicked a goal against Freo, but we didn't have the matchwinning efforts of the two you keep mentioning - we'd have now lost 4 of the last 5.

You know there's a reason clubs give everything to get matchwinners to their club?

Good, ordinary players play roles well. They're good to have. You need them. But Premierships are won by teams with matchwinners.


In between your attempted sarcasm and below par humour, I'd like you to try to argue sensibly against that.

[markp]

CJ can be a match winner.

And has been... by shutting down the best.

Each possession, goal, or goal assist he deprives his opponent is worth 3, 4, or 2.5, depending on the circumstances.

Graph to follow....

[saintsRrising]

If you'd bothered to read the thread, before embarrassingly responding in your usual patronising way - you'd notice that we still have 5 on the list.

5??? What can't you even follow your own OP?

You know the part where you stated...

Right now, I reckon we have 2 that are capable of this.

So it is 2, then 5....then????????????.

But your OP is really just a bag Lyon thread..though others have not risen to your lured bait...

There's two questions to this -

1) Why aren't guys like Dal and Kosi still able to be matchwinners? Has it been 'coached out of them'?

We have matchwinners. The team is just out of form at present.