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Well i read what might be considered and interesting and insightful post on bigfooty from a carlton fan about the saints. Since i mentioned bigfooty some of you will already have stopped reading and started dry wretching, for those that haven't...
Also look at their game-plan.
StKilda footy is not "fun-footy" it is mentally tough and requires 110% commitment from each member in the team. And the lack of depth atm in the Saints squad does not allow them to cater to serious injuries or out of form players.
Whereas Geelong footy is more "fun-footy" it is about run carry and instinct which is less psychologically draining and brings the players much enjoyment.
StKilda I feel is now suffering a "footy depression", they won 20 of 22 H&A games last year, made it to the grand final as the best team and lost. They "almost" reached the peak of Everest and failed with 1 little step to go (being up at the end of the final break as well). I just sense that with the psychological effort of 2009 and it not bringing in the box of chocolates the players in 2010 just seem mentally drained and not enjoying their footy ("non-fun footy").
Whereas Geelong of 2009 enjoyed their footy, knew their game plan would bring them the chocolates after 2007 and their depth is amazing.
I think Lyon has to manufacture a plan-b that allows these players to play on instinct a bit more and give them back some enjoyment to the game they play. It can't all be about chess 110% of the time and stopping your opponents from scoring.
I think that is pretty spot on for some players in our team who are simply not playing with the intensity they did last year.
I know we don't have geelongs list and we if we tried to play like them we'd probably keep losing. We're going to have to stick to the plan but work the players minds back into the belief that it's going to work and probably will become fun for them when everyone busts a gut to make it work.
What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger.
First of all, when we're playing well we're pretty exciting I think, particularly when we get the quick handballs going - we're the best in the comp in that department IMO.
But it was our industry that gave us our edge last season. What we lack in pace and skill we more than make up for in discpline and graft - at least that was the case last year.
Winning is always fun. Losing is never fun.
When we were stringing those wins together last year I don't think you would've found one player who wasn't having fun out there.
Remember, this is the type of football we're capable of -
Losing isn't fun.
I've played plenty of sport, and i hate losing. I'm sure 99% of AFL players would hate losing.
Lets see if they boys are smiling when they are back on the winners list, because winning is fun. Just ask Geelong.
I think we're simply not used to seeing a form slump. That's all it is. We'll regroup soon enough. That's the only positive spin I can put on it. We're certainly not out of the race this season IMHO
When they created LENNY HAYES (in the shadow of Harvs) they forgot to break the mold (again)- hence the Supremely Incredible Jack Steven!!
Any synchronicity with Adelaide?
Like his thoughts but winning is fun, regardless of style.
We are playing "non-confidence footy" that's why we are losing.
TB 1 - The Brightest Light on the Darkest Night - we miss you.
Think Globally, Act Sainterly
I have Phil Narkle's helmet
Milan Faletic wrote:It always comes down to your bottom 7 or 8 players.
If they are firing, they allow to top players to do their thing.
Biggest myth in footy.
It's actually the complete opposite. If your good players are fit and firing, any dud can look decent.
Take the good players out, and make the duds play bigger roles themselves and you find out very quickly that the 'bottom 6' myth is just that.
If your top 6-8 players are stars and they're playing well, you'll be a top 4 team.
If your next 6-8 players are decent and playing well in addition to your top 6-8, you'll be a genuine contender.
The rest can be filled by anyone. Deadset anyone. Our 'bottom 6' is filled by 'anyone' these days.
Plenty of very ordinary players have won flags.
RF what a silly time for that post. Wasnt our best 4 players our best 4 players on Sunday. Hayes, dal, joey and BJ. Your top players may try to win a game but if the bottom 6 play no good you cant win not matter how good the top players go.
Ordinary players certainly can win flags but may have played well on that day.
If players that are struggling - eg Zac on Sunday - if these players have a few howlers and concede a few easy goals - that can be the difference between winning and losing. If a few others miss set shots etc. Sunday is a good example. Our best four players played exceptionally well yet we still lost. Fisher I would also put in that group of our top tier players. He played well, under difficult circumstances in a new position. So agree your great players can play well and you still lose.
Other players I would generally include in this bottom group would be Raph, Geary, Eddy, Steven, Mini, Dempster when he was playing, Peake, ie - the types of players who are not walk up starts but are in and out of the team depending on form and other injuries etc. I believe the improvement in these players and their abililty to play the roles assigned to them that was such a big factor in our success last year. Several are being exposed this year. While our great players also had great years last year, we looked our most vulnerable when the weaker ones had off days.
I understand what Rodgerfox is saying when he says any dud can look good in a good team thats playing well and to a certain extent thats true. But when the pressure comes - in big games, tight games, its those lesser lights and their ability to cope and perform under pressure (and not make too many mistakes) that makes the difference. If they don't handle it, it almost doesn't matter how well the others play as the mistakes will leak you too many goals.
One of the reason we were so badly beaten the week before, was even a lot of our better players played terribly - the team as a whole played badly. Not a chance you can win in those circumstances.
"At the end of the day, a coach and a fitness adviser doesn't make a good football team, they're not the only ones who got us to two Grand Finals." Lenny Hayes. 27/9/2011.
Milan Faletic wrote:It always comes down to your bottom 7 or 8 players.
If they are firing, they allow to top players to do their thing.
Biggest myth in footy.
It's actually the complete opposite. If your good players are fit and firing, any dud can look decent.
Take the good players out, and make the duds play bigger roles themselves and you find out very quickly that the 'bottom 6' myth is just that.
If your top 6-8 players are stars and they're playing well, you'll be a top 4 team.
If your next 6-8 players are decent and playing well in addition to your top 6-8, you'll be a genuine contender.
The rest can be filled by anyone. Deadset anyone. Our 'bottom 6' is filled by 'anyone' these days.
Plenty of very ordinary players have won flags.
Its true that plenty of ordinary players have won flags - we would have had a few in our team had we won last year. Several players that are constantly targeted on here would be premiership players.
However the opposite is also true. There are plenty of very good players who are premiership players, but didn't contribute much on that day.
Mitchell for Hawthorn had an absolute shocker in the 2008 GF. He is a great player and has been a significant contributer to their success. He had a terrible day that day - yet doesn't change the fact that he is premiership captain.
"At the end of the day, a coach and a fitness adviser doesn't make a good football team, they're not the only ones who got us to two Grand Finals." Lenny Hayes. 27/9/2011.
I do think the playing group is scarred from 2009. Not only the players, the supporters as well. Being at the game on Sunday, it wasn't until we drew within three points that the supporters started chanting. Before then, you almost would have thought the game was being played at Windy Hill. The Saint supporters were barely making a peep.
You bring up an argument that was far from conclusive - and have nothing to add?
Aren't Carlton suffering from "footy depression" now? Their run-and-carry style isn't any fun because they don't have the strategy to stop an opponent?
If anything, both teams are suffering from the same thing - lack of urgency at the contests and not enough pressure on the ball carrier.
If anything, this thread's argument has lost relevance - not gained it.
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
vacuous space wrote:Sounds like it's time for a trip to the movies.
Bonnie Doon
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
