The 'Over Reliance on Roo' Thread

[SainterK]

Well something worked against Freo, without Roo or Kosi, and they were willing and capable opposition.....

Interesting point actually. No talls = good scoring.

Goddard played tall though, for a long period of the game with a good return.

Not sure we have even returned to the forward setup of that evening since have we?

[saintsRrising]

Well something worked against Freo, without Roo or Kosi, and they were willing and capable opposition.....

Interesting point actually. No talls = good scoring.

Nice theory except that the forward line used talls. Fisher, BJ, Gardi and Dawson were all rotated through.

[maverick]

Again you like saying things that dont work. This is forum for discussion so how about you give us a set up you think might work.

If I don't happen to have the answer to the club's problems, does make any criticism null and void does it?

Well when they are so bleeding obvious, well yes

[maverick]

Get him back to the wing whn he comes back then. That way we can use all the star forwards we have at the moment.

wouldn't mind seeing some solutions from you, either plugger. i like you but you tend to put down others' posts rather than contribute anything positive.

that is a shame because i respect your opinion. i don't necessarily agree with it though and nor do i have to.

There isnt much we can do with the forward line and even though Kosi is terrible at the moment the issue isnt the forward line. It is the mid field and the backs. We arent being allowed to move the ball as quickly as we were a few weeks a go and now players have lost a bit of confidence. people forget we beat Freo with a worse forward line than last night on paper. We beat them because we moved the ball quicly.

No changes are going to bring about any real change because there isnt much in the seconds. The problem at the moment is one for the coaches to fix.

There we go spot, on.....

[rodgerfox]

Well something worked against Freo, without Roo or Kosi, and they were willing and capable opposition.....

Interesting point actually. No talls = good scoring.

Nice theory except that the forward line used talls. Fisher, BJ, Gardi and Dawson were all rotated through.

Talls??

I wouldn't call any of them, bar Gardiner a 'tall forward'. None of them play tall as forwards at all.

[SainterK]

I said it a couple of weeks ago, but I don't actually think that the boys kick it to Milne enough.

[rodgerfox]

Again you like saying things that dont work. This is forum for discussion so how about you give us a set up you think might work.

If I don't happen to have the answer to the club's problems, does make any criticism null and void does it?

Well when they are so bleeding obvious, well yes

Most supporters have been denying we were reliant on Roo.

Now it's bleeding obvious?

[bob__71]

People seem to think footy is played the way it was 15 years ago.

You don't just put a guy at FF and let him play it the way he sees fit.


You have a team of forwards, each playing a role. they need to link in woth the mids and even the defence.

Putting Gwilt at FF isn't a fix.

Rotating anyone through FF isn't a fix.


Sadly, our forward structure wasn't successful because of the structure or the setup - it was successful because Roo was there.

You can't just put someone else there in his absence, and it expect it to work just as it did.
I'm worried that our coaches started to believe the hype about our perfect 'structures' and game plan, and thought it was a case of someone just stepping into Roo's role.

They need to adjust the whole setup. The 'Roo and Kosi' won't work without Roo.
The 'talls get it down to the smalls' thing won't work without Roo either.

We built so much around one guy, that on GF day, and now we find ourselves in the shiit.

The good news is though, that albeit late we are trying new things. That's why we look like the 2007 model.

Hopefully it clicks (whatever 'it' is) soon.

Rodger...that was me saying I had noticed those things....it wasnt word from inside the club.

[plugger66]

Again you like saying things that dont work. This is forum for discussion so how about you give us a set up you think might work.

If I don't happen to have the answer to the club's problems, does make any criticism null and void does it?

Amazing that can always see faults but never smart enough to even give an opinion about a solution.

[bigcarl]

There isnt much we can do with the forward line and even though Kosi is terrible at the moment the issue isnt the forward line

here's a question for you plugger.

if the forward line isn't the issue, how is it that our slump coincides almost exactly with the loss of our best forward, main target and leading goal kicker of 2009?

I had a carlton idiot sitting beside me yesterday, who began yelling about 15 minutes into the opening quarter "smash 'em blues. they've got nothing up forward."

he was right. i knew he was right when he said it and he was proved right.

what's more the carlton players knew it.

they knew from the moment they saw us line up that it wouldn't take a cricket score to win. all they had to do was take a few risks and try to rattle on a few goals.

the forward line is an issue. our mids need some quality to kick to, otherwise their best efforts sail straight back past them instead of sailing through the big sticks.

as i said in another thread, i think bj has to play mainly forward during riewoldt's absence and we need someone presenting at chf. i think gilbert or maybe blake. kosi is just not working at ff and should play second ruck.

i think we'll play a lot more direct and confident with something to kick to.

[SainterK]

There isnt much we can do with the forward line and even though Kosi is terrible at the moment the issue isnt the forward line

here's a question for you plugger.

if the forward line isn't the issue, how is it that our slump coincides almost exactly with the loss of our best forward, main target and leading goal kicker of 2009?

I had a carlton idiot sitting beside me yesterday, who began yelling about 15 minutes into the opening quarter "smash 'em blues. they've got nothing up forward."

he was right. i knew he was right when he said it and he was proved right.

what's more the carlton players knew it. they knew from the moment they saw us line up that it wouldn't take a cricket score to win. all they had to do was take a few risks and try to rattle on a few goals.

the forward line is an issue. our mids need some quality to kick to, otherwise their best efforts sail straight back past them.

as i said in another thread, i think bj has to play mainly forward during riewoldt's absence and we need someone presenting at chf. i think gilbert or maybe blake. kosi is just not working at ff and should play second ruck.

i think we'll play a lot more direct and confident with something to kick to.

We have plenty of players who are capable of finishing, but how many who are capable of setting them up?

Delivery into the 50, goal assists, also things that Roo is very good at.

[Spinner]

Can we now say that we've rolled the dice over the past 18 months by building a game plan around one guy?

He won the Collingwood final off his own boot.

He won the Dogs prelim off his own boot.

He was injured in the GF and although we managed 16 more Inside 50s - we only had 3 more scoring shots. That's a damming stat.
Many still blame poor conversion, but we only had 3 more shots. It was the inability to score without Roo that killed us.

Now fast forward to this year, and I think it's fair to say we're labouring and look completely lost without him.


Does anyone agree? Have we made a major mistake by putting all our eggs in one basket?

And if so, can we fix it this year before it's too late?

A team relies on their CHF....Who would have thought.....

[iwantmeseats]

Losing Riewoldt is like losing TWO exceptional players people.

A Gun foward ...

and a gun foward flanker come winger even a midfielder!

This is why its affecting us badly at the moment.

[maverick]

Again you like saying things that dont work. This is forum for discussion so how about you give us a set up you think might work.

If I don't happen to have the answer to the club's problems, does make any criticism null and void does it?

Well when they are so bleeding obvious, well yes

Most supporters have been denying we were reliant on Roo.

Now it's bleeding obvious?

Course we are reliant on Roo, as the Cats are on Ablett, Hawks on Hodge, Bears on Brown etc etc

Roo is just more obvious because he is big and kicks goals.

[na exa]

Riewoldt offers an outlet for players kicking out long or with purpose out of our defensive 50 and with this goes a method of clearing from danger, keeping possession and setting up an attack.

Currently we do not have another option that can lead from the attacking 50 way up the ground and accept a pass from our defensive 50 whether it be long or short.

We do rely on Riewoldt and that is the nature of the beast. 'They' aren't called superstars or franchise players for nothing. Teams get built around them and rightly so. They do the most with the ball in their hands.

What pleases me is that we have a decent month coming up where worst case scenario we should be 8-3, best case 9-2 due to the teams we play. This hopefully gives us an opportunity to figure out not just a way to kick more goals but also find meaningful avenues to attack. I noticed we were close to Carlton's inside 50 count last night however our percentage of useful or meaningful entries would have been much less, both on our average and against Carlton in the match alone.

nice read jethro.

[Leo.J]

No Brown no Lions
No Judd no Carlton
No Pav no Freo
No Buddy no Hawks
No Petrie no Roos
No Goodes no Swans

And for that matter I'm not too sure how the Cats would go without Ablett for most of the year, same could be said for the Pies if Swan or Didak were out for a long period, although the Pies are pretty even.

You take the best player out of your team any team and it's going to hurt, especially when he's a key forward...

As a coach you usually build a game plan based on your strengths, not generally on your potential weaknesses.

You take the key forward out of nearly all these clubs and see how they would have gone.

Kang - Carey 96/99
ESS - Hird 2000
BL - Brown or Lynch 2001,2002,2003
PA - Tredrea 2004
SYD - Hall 2005
HAW - Franklin 2008

Then take Judd out of the WC 2006, and take Ablett out in 2007/2009.

To win a flag you need talent and luck, talent in your list, and luck to keep them on the park.

Maybe we're out of luck this year.

That said IMO we are over reliant on our best player, but most premiership sides are.

[Legendary]

Pagan did it for 7 years and won 2 flags from it ... I certainly don't think it's unreasonable from a coaching perspective.

But is it going to be enough to get this group to a premiership? Let's hope so.

[rodgerfox]

It's obvious that teams have their stars and when they don't play their absence will be felt.

But we have an unhealthy reliance on Roo.

It's not just when he isn't on the park that we struggle - it's when he doesn't star we seem to struggle.

Last year our form mimicked his almost to the letter.


When it got close, our only option was to go to him.


That's the issue. I was hoping that losing him would result in a positive as it would force us to be able to play well when he comes back and his output is down.

[plugger66]

It's obvious that teams have their stars and when they don't play their absence will be felt.

But we have an unhealthy reliance on Roo.

It's not just when he isn't on the park that we struggle - it's when he doesn't star we seem to struggle.

Last year our form mimicked his almost to the letter.


When it got close, our only option was to go to him.


That's the issue. I was hoping that losing him would result in a positive as it would force us to be able to play well when he comes back and his output is down.

Got any suggestions or do you continue just to bring up the same negative issues without any positive imput?

[st_Trav_ofWA]

It's obvious that teams have their stars and when they don't play their absence will be felt.

But we have an unhealthy reliance on Roo.

It's not just when he isn't on the park that we struggle - it's when he doesn't star we seem to struggle.

Last year our form mimicked his almost to the letter.


When it got close, our only option was to go to him.


That's the issue. I was hoping that losing him would result in a positive as it would force us to be able to play well when he comes back and his output is down.

ummm thats what makes him a great player the fact that when he plays good we play good ... how many games have Freo won when pav has had a stinker ?? how many games have Bris won with Brown having a stinker ? how many games did Westcoast win with judd missing ? ....

of course we are finding it hard with out Roo hes is in the top 3 players in the comp !!!

[rodgerfox]

ummm thats what makes him a great player the fact that when he plays good we play good ...

Ummm, that's what makes us in deep shiit.

how many games have Freo won when pav has had a stinker ?? how many games have Bris won with Brown having a stinker ?

How many flags have Brisbane and Freo won?

how many games did Westcoast win with judd missing ? ....

I don't know.

But they're entire structure didn't hinge on him. I'm sure they were better with him in the team, but would also be able to function when he was quiet.

of course we are finding it hard with out Roo hes is in the top 3 players in the comp !!!

Maybe go back and read what I wrote.

[plugger66]

Got any answers RF?

[st_Trav_ofWA]

ummm thats what makes him a great player the fact that when he plays good we play good ...

Ummm, that's what makes us in deep shiit.

how many games have Freo won when pav has had a stinker ?? how many games have Bris won with Brown having a stinker ?

How many flags have Brisbane and Freo won?

how many games did Westcoast win with judd missing ? ....

I don't know.

But they're entire structure didn't hinge on him. I'm sure they were better with him in the team, but would also be able to function when he was quiet.

of course we are finding it hard with out Roo hes is in the top 3 players in the comp !!!

Maybe go back and read what I wrote.

so let me get this right we have one of the most dominant players in the comp and thats a bad thing according to you ?

Brisbane have won 3 flags in four grand finals Freo have done sfa ... whats your point ?
so westcoasts entire game plan wasnt directed around judd ... funny how many finals have they been involved in without him ?? and im sorry we have had two losses without Roo but also 2 wins without him so how can you say we dont function at all without him ? how did we beat the current second placed team ? how did we beat the pre season flag favorites ??

[rodgerfox]

so let me get this right we have one of the most dominant players in the comp and thats a bad thing according to you ?

As I said, go back and read what I've written.

Brisbane have won 3 flags in four grand finals Freo have done sfa ... whats your point ?

How many did Brisbane win by relying solely on the boot of Brown? None.

My point re Freo is that they may have relied on Pavlich, and it hasn't got them anywhere.

so westcoasts entire game plan wasnt directed around judd ... funny how many finals have they been involved in without him ?? and im sorry we have had two losses without Roo but also 2 wins without him so how can you say we dont function at all without him ? how did we beat the current second placed team ? how did we beat the pre season flag favorites ??

Go back and read what I've written.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

so let me get this right we have one of the most dominant players in the comp and thats a bad thing according to you ?

As I said, go back and read what I've written.

Brisbane have won 3 flags in four grand finals Freo have done sfa ... whats your point ?

How many did Brisbane win by relying solely on the boot of Brown? None.

My point re Freo is that they may have relied on Pavlich, and it hasn't got them anywhere.

so westcoasts entire game plan wasnt directed around judd ... funny how many finals have they been involved in without him ?? and im sorry we have had two losses without Roo but also 2 wins without him so how can you say we dont function at all without him ? how did we beat the current second placed team ? how did we beat the pre season flag favorites ??

Go back and read what I've written.

you havent writen anything you have asked alot of questions and you have basically stated we are no good without Roo so answer this if we are soo reliant on one bloke how did we beat the dockers ?? how did we beat the Dogs ? how did we beat hawthorn last year ?

there is a common sentiment that when Stkilda play well Milne plays well does that mean we are tooo reliant on milne ?? cause when he plays well the team plays well ? naah thats just Milne going missing in the big games