Just a question

[plugger66]

Have teams worked out a method to beat us or at least be in the game against us this year.

Last year we were clearly the best team except for the one that counts but Hawthorn were like that bar Geelong in 2008 but won the flag. They had unusual game plan which now doesnt work.

Does anyone think our unusual game plan has at least been stifled and as we relied on structure to win games last year and not just champion players like Geelong can we find a better way of playing this year?

[saintlee]

I think our gameplan has changed since early in 2009....I just don't see the same intense pressure that we had last year, where we just locked teams down in their defensive 50....it seemed to change about 2/3rds of the way through last season.....I could be wrong but that is how it appears to me....

To answer your question, teams have worked it out to some degree....certainly speed works well against the 'lyon cage' or whatever you wanna call it....but I just think we are out of form at the minute

[saintsRrising]

Have teams worked out a method to beat us or at least be in the game against us this year.

Well if you said to be more likely to beat us. Yes.

However it is not just if they have worked outa method, it is also that they are more practiced at combatting such a gameplan now. Hence the "headless choock" scenario does not occur as much as it did.

As last year went on the advantage that our game-plan gave us saw the gap narrowed.

Over Summer a number of teams including the Saints have adopted elements of Pagan's Paddock to counter it and not just the Saints, but all teams rolling out zoning.

Ability of the Saints to capitalise on it for which Lovett was most likely recruited has been hampered by the non-start of Lovett and injury to Gram.

Peake without starring I thought was accommodating this well, but was dropped which I though was stiff.

Last year the Dons showed that we were vunerable against pace and run. The Blues did this with interest this week. Fortunately for the Saints most teams do not have that much pace. But you can bet more opposition coaches will be considering how they can load up on pace when playing the Saints...or for that matter the Cat's who also have a pedsetrian paced backline.

Tactics aside..the Saints were woeful and with that effort would have lost against many gamestyles. The Blues tactics ensured it was a blow-out though. But last night tactics was not just pace and run. Many other elements of good coaching by Ratten: ie not going through Fisher parts of the ground so that he was largely eliminated from the game, Blues players being ready to run down our players if they kicked too slowly from marks/free kicks when play-on was called.

[aussiejones]

" I think our gameplan has changed since early in 2009....I just don't see the same intense pressure that we had last year, where we just locked teams down in their defensive 50....it seemed to change about 2/3rds of the way through last season.....I could be wrong but that is how it appears to me.... "

Agree. But why. We used to be a mean tackling machine ..........now we get run down after a mark , let opponents slip when tackled.

Lastnight the Blues went for their chances to the forward line , if the dogs had done that they would have beaten us too.

Lots for Ross to think about this week............

[st_Trav_ofWA]

our game plan was relentless pressure ..... i cant see how you can counter 22 players giving their all to apply pressuer on the opersition i think its more to do with we are not doing it as well as last year thats why teams are getting better against us

[meher baba]

The Bombers showed how to do it last year: you have to be prepared to take risks to move the ball quickly out of defence: thread handpasses through traffic, kick across the face of goals, etc, etc. You have to be prepared to cop a few ugly turnovers that result in St Kilda goals.

If you allow yourself to get hemmed in and lose confidence, you lose the game.

So a few teams have now tried this tactic against us this year: the Swans to some extent, Freo, Port and now Carlton. I'm sure the Bombers will do it next week and would expect the Lions to have a go as well (as they did to some extent last year, when they probably played better than us over the four quarters).

This is fine in home and away games at this point in the season, but it becomes progressively more difficult to do as the season wears on. The Pies tried to do it to a certain extent in the QF, and got hammered. Neither the Dogs or the Cats tried it on in the last few games: they just kept hammering away with the plan they'd brought to the game.

I don't think our game plan is quite as radical or tricky as the Hawks' was in 2008.

[saintsRrising]

can we find a better way of playing this year?

Pound for pound (or kilo for kilo) the Cats probably still have a better playing list. they have added Pods who has improved their forward line (who will IMO eventaully squeeze out Hawkins if Ottens gets fit).

With No Lovett, the Saints list has probably tread water. Perversly the Saints probably still match up well against the Cats.

Team play and work-rate are crucial to Saints wins and has been lacking this year. Our 4 quarter efforts wre wonderful last year. Constant pressure would grind down teams. This year this has been patchy. Blues game was dismal.


IMO the Blues game was an aberation in that we were truly dreadful and not all of it due to the Blues.. But whether that is a big or small aberation the Don game will be a good test of us, as all parties are on notice.


However it is pretty clear that many teams have improved this year. If the Saints stand still we are in trouble...and if we go backwards we are in real trouble.

So far we have gone backwards ina relative sense.


2010 looks to bea rip-snort ofa year witha lot more "live" teams. Only the best will do.

[ralphsmith]

Yeah it wasn't so much a gameplan but rather a furious unending disciplined attack on the man and the ball, which has completely vanished this year.

Completely.

We have to find it again.

[widereceiver]

Yeah it wasn't so much a gameplan but rather a furious unending disciplined attack on the man and the ball, which has completely vanished this year.

Completely.

We have to find it again.

Which round do you think it vanished? I think I saw it against the Pois, the Dockers and the Dogs. We are not the demoralising force we were last year though.

Last night we were, admittedly, pathetic but our mids let the whole side down - thrashed in the middle, too slow to help the backline and crap delivery to the forwards.

[degruch]

Yeah it wasn't so much a gameplan but rather a furious unending disciplined attack on the man and the ball, which has completely vanished this year.

Completely.

We have to find it again.

We did the oppositions work for them last night, by seemingly not playing any gameplan. Maybe we're lulling the comp into a false sense of security?

[bigred]

Attitude.

Hopefully last nights match is the bitch slap most of the list needed to wake the hell up.

[SainterK]

To the OP, nope...last night was no representation of what we know the boys can do.

[SaintWal]

IMO, yes.

Interesting to watch the Swans of late as well, The master and the apprentice. Well I think the master may clearly be the master.

Have teams worked out a method to beat us or at least be in the game against us this year.

Last year we were clearly the best team except for the one that counts but Hawthorn were like that bar Geelong in 2008 but won the flag. They had unusual game plan which now doesnt work.

Does anyone think our unusual game plan has at least been stifled and as we relied on structure to win games last year and not just champion players like Geelong can we find a better way of playing this year?