The 'Over Reliance on Roo' Thread

[rodgerfox]

Can we now say that we've rolled the dice over the past 18 months by building a game plan around one guy?

He won the Collingwood final off his own boot.

He won the Dogs prelim off his own boot.

He was injured in the GF and although we managed 16 more Inside 50s - we only had 3 more scoring shots. That's a damming stat.
Many still blame poor conversion, but we only had 3 more shots. It was the inability to score without Roo that killed us.

Now fast forward to this year, and I think it's fair to say we're labouring and look completely lost without him.


Does anyone agree? Have we made a major mistake by putting all our eggs in one basket?

And if so, can we fix it this year before it's too late?

[markp]

Tune in next week, for another thrilling instalment of.... SAINTS 2010!!.....

[ralphsmith]

Riewoldt just has a gigantic heart, workrate and talent. He lifts the team when they're down, he single handedly wins games, he has a presence on the ground that alters the cosmic balances of the universe.

Is it any wonder we rely on him so much?

There simply is no alternative to him. What can we do? We've limped through 4 weeks without him and now have finally collapsed in a shitheap.

[SainterK]

Plenty of time to fix it if that's the question?

[bob__71]

I dont think we rolled the dice. We just havent had an alternative...and obviously still dont.

I sort of dont understand the question. Do you think we should have asked him to stop being such a good player. Or passed to players who wernt putting themselves in as good a position, just so we didnt pass to him?

[na exa]

i agree with the focus of the question.

even when he comes back , we'll have the same flaw.

so recast and reset, (as if ,we are without him permanently) ... then play him as 'cream' in an operation that works without reliance on him.

[rodgerfox]

Do you think we should have asked him to stop being such a good player. Or passed to players who wernt putting themselves in as good a position, just so we didnt pass to him?

No, you're right. Play through him constantly and create no alternative......then hope like hell he doesn't get hurt.

[3rd generation saint]

RF, Roo is such an imposing player, he would have the same effect on any team in the competition, even Geelong.
I remember North of the 90's with a guy called Carey, they we're a very good team without him, a premiership team with him.
What annoys me is that the first week without him, or Kosi, we kicked 16 goals against Freo and won well and with no ill effects, but we seemed to have gone ultra defensive since then.
The thing with Roo is that other players come into the game when he is there because the opposition pays so much attention to him.
Kosi is a much better player when he is there because the opposition pays less attention to him, Milne becomes better because there are more crumbs etc etc.
However, I will concede your point, as I said elsewhere on this forum, we need to look no farther than our opponent last night who seemed to have adapted well to losing an 80 goal plus a season forward.

[Face]

Our game plan doesn't revolve around one person.

The reason we are stuggling in recent weeks is the poor form of our other senior players.

There isn't a player on our list playing close to their best football.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I think it pretty much does, but it is also extremely disappointing how the others haven't stepped up in his absence. It's a real indictment on them.

[west57]

I really thought when he first went out, that the media over-exaggerated our "reliance" on him. All of a sudden, without him we were supposed to roll over and lose games. It's not like he has never been injured before. I just think at the moment, the team is not clicking, we are having abit of a rough patch, and Roo being absent has just magnified things.

[bob__71]

Do you think we should have asked him to stop being such a good player. Or passed to players who wernt putting themselves in as good a position, just so we didnt pass to him?

No, you're right. Play through him constantly and create no alternative......then hope like hell he doesn't get hurt.

No need to get all defensive. I was just wondering what you thought the other solution would be?

[rodgerfox]

Do you think we should have asked him to stop being such a good player. Or passed to players who wernt putting themselves in as good a position, just so we didnt pass to him?

No, you're right. Play through him constantly and create no alternative......then hope like hell he doesn't get hurt.

No need to get all defensive. I was just wondering what you thought the other solution would be?

You were being a smart arrse, as usual.


If you want to discuss the footy, then fine. If you want to keep being a waanker, then that's fine also - but leave me out of it.

[bob__71]

No I was just asking what you thought they could be doing differently? Anyways I guess you dont have a different solution, sorry I didnt mean to make you feel picked on.

[bob__71]

And to be a bit more clear about what I was trying to communicate. You have put forward a hypothetical ideal 'would we be better off with less reliance on Roo', and have presented it in terms of the question ' have we put all of our eggs in on basket'

My retort is 'I dont think StKilda have set out to put all of their eggs in one basket' I think all supporters and coaching staff would agree that it would be nice to have more reliable ways to goal. However, we dont seem to, but I dont think this has been through lack of trying to develop such avenues.

[rodgerfox]

My retort is 'I dont think StKilda have set out to put all of their eggs in one basket' I think all supporters and coaching staff would agree that it would be nice to have more reliable ways to goal. However, we dont seem to, but I dont think this has been through lack of trying to develop such avenues.

What have we done, over the past 18 months to develop alternate ways to goal?

We haven't drafted forwards - bar Schneider. We haven't played Roo away from goal.
We have, when the games have been in the balance, reverted to the 'play Roo deep and kick it to him' tactic to win close games.


I haven't seen anything to suggest we've tried anything. If anything, I've felt for quite a while (and I've posted about this alot last year) that we've exacerbated the reliance on him - rather than try to reduce it.

[maverick]

Can we now say that we've rolled the dice over the past 18 months by building a game plan around one guy?

He won the Collingwood final off his own boot.

He won the Dogs prelim off his own boot.

He was injured in the GF and although we managed 16 more Inside 50s - we only had 3 more scoring shots. That's a damming stat.
Many still blame poor conversion, but we only had 3 more shots. It was the inability to score without Roo that killed us.

Now fast forward to this year, and I think it's fair to say we're labouring and look completely lost without him.


Does anyone agree? Have we made a major mistake by putting all our eggs in one basket?

And if so, can we fix it this year before it's too late?

Completely lost, wow.
If 5-2 against 6 teams inside the 8 is completely lost then where does that leave the rest of the comp.
As per usual fantastic over dramatisation.
Let's see where we are at round 12 once we are through the next 5 weeks, this will tell the story of our top2/4 hopes

[fingers]

The loss of Roo doesn't automatically reduce the intensity that the players can bring or their skills. Of course not having him will have an impact but it's the other things that have fallen away that are killing us.

[bob__71]

My retort is 'I dont think StKilda have set out to put all of their eggs in one basket' I think all supporters and coaching staff would agree that it would be nice to have more reliable ways to goal. However, we dont seem to, but I dont think this has been through lack of trying to develop such avenues.

What have we done, over the past 18 months to develop alternate ways to goal?

We haven't drafted forwards - bar Schneider. We haven't played Roo away from goal.
We have, when the games have been in the balance, reverted to the 'play Roo deep and kick it to him' tactic to win close games.


I haven't seen anything to suggest we've tried anything. If anything, I've felt for quite a while (and I've posted about this alot last year) that we've exacerbated the reliance on him - rather than try to reduce it.

I'm sure I have heard of Kosi dropping marks before Roo was injured. I'm sure I have seen the coaching staff try Gwilt, McEvoy, Dal and a few others up in the forward line before Roo was injured. These things havent worked, but they have been tried. In retrospect the biggest mistake we made was not recruiting BBBH or Pods.

Again, the only question I asked in response was what do you think we should have done differently in the past couple of seasons?

Edit: Also I personally dont have a problem with the fact that we have used our best player to help us win the games in the past. I see that as a good thing, I guess its just a matter of opinion.

[jmac101]

roo's importance isn't just in the goals he kicks, he is our number one bail out option on the wing and half forward.

every time i have been to a saints game in the last 2 years I have muttered at several occasions 'when in doubt kick it to riewoldt'. i think that the players next in the chain run on and present options in anticipation that roo will get it..

sure he kicks a lot of goals. but his importance as 'the middle link' is understated. koschitzke can't do that role..he can't run long enough and at the moment he has the dropsy's. stanley isn't the answer...he isn't strong enough..

have to change the plan..we need another bail out option or we change our game so that we don't need one

[saintsRrising]

Exceptional players will always make exceptional differences.

Blues + Judd is a different team than without him.

However other key forwards have been tried but have been found wanting. ie Charlie.

Goddard is ok in bursts. Fisher and Gwilt have little impact up forward as does Raph.

Allen was recruited but had freak hip injury, otherwise would quite likely be a regular now.

Hamill retired early and has left a void that has not yet been filled.

Kosi is a No 2 Banana, and not a No 1 Forward.

Stanley is being groomed, but is not ready. Walsh ditto..and given his background may not make it.

As much as I like Gilbert down back he may be the one that has to be tried as key forward.

The midfield also continues as group to not kick the number of goals that they need to.

Lovett was aquired to provide another forward opton..but we all know how that ended!!!!!!!!!!!

Can we now say that we've rolled the dice over the past 18 months by building a game plan around one guy?


Does anyone agree? Have we made a major mistake by putting all our eggs in one basket?

Well the answer is no, as one Roo was not meant to be the "one egg".

Other "eggs" have unfortunately proven to be bad, or have not been cooked yet.

And if so, can we fix it this year before it's too late?

See above. Gilbert may have to tried up forward. Stanley is apossibility despite not looking ready.

Zav may be used instead of Kosi. Zac has not been kicking golas either but has been in the game more than Kosi.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Goddard is ok in bursts.

"OK in bursts"? You call 4 and 5 goal games, when he's only played there for a half, at the most, in those games, "OK"?

[saintsRrising]

Goddard is ok in bursts.

"OK in bursts"? You call 4 and 5 goal games, when he's only played there for a half, at the most, in those games, "OK"?

I am talking about ALL of BJ's games when played forward including those in previous years.

He has been played at CHF in the past with little consistent impact, and in some game you hardly knew he was in the forward line.

Yes he has had a couple of games where in bursts he has delivered.

Now he is more mature and may bloom in the role if played there more. But his games to dtae asa forward have been mixed.

I do think he is part of the answer and would like to see him played where he can rotate through the forward line more.

I am not sure his temperament is suited to that ofa constantly leading forward though.

[plugger66]

My retort is 'I dont think StKilda have set out to put all of their eggs in one basket' I think all supporters and coaching staff would agree that it would be nice to have more reliable ways to goal. However, we dont seem to, but I dont think this has been through lack of trying to develop such avenues.

What have we done, over the past 18 months to develop alternate ways to goal?

We haven't drafted forwards - bar Schneider. We haven't played Roo away from goal.
We have, when the games have been in the balance, reverted to the 'play Roo deep and kick it to him' tactic to win close games.


I haven't seen anything to suggest we've tried anything. If anything, I've felt for quite a while (and I've posted about this alot last year) that we've exacerbated the reliance on him - rather than try to reduce it.

We cant fix the draft so for a change instead of asking questions i would love to know what you would do with the side until Rooy comes back?

[saintsRrising]

We cant fix the draft so for a change instead of asking questions i would love to know what you would do with the side until Rooy comes back?

Good question. Though RF will normally tell us afterwards what has not worked.