Ross Lyon needs to go NOW !!!

[saintsRrising]

If I wanted a deadbeat from BigFooty I would quote the Violent Stool

[Dr Spaceman]

Interesting.... this was meant to be a thread taking the p*ss...

Dead straight!

Unfortunately, once you open the gate you have little control over where the cattle chose to roam.

[meher baba]

sRr, the logic of your argument would be compelling but for one inconvenient fact: our style changed markedly in mid 2008. I don't know how or why, but it did. Before that point, we didn't really "zone", we just flooded. And we were a low tackling team that retreated and coralled all the way from their backline to ours.

I totally accept that there was a lot of relearning going on on the part of the players in 2007-08, but the coach also was doing some relearning as well.

BTW, I lived in Sydney for most of 2005 and watched several Swans games live at the SCG and, yes, they sometimes played man on man. Like about 10% of the time. The rest of the time they were doing something different: it looked a hell of a lot like flooding to me, but I don't pretend to be an expert.

[rodgerfox]

sRr, the logic of your argument would be compelling but for one inconvenient fact: our style changed markedly in mid 2008. I don't know how or why, but it did. Before that point, we didn't really "zone", we just flooded. And we were a low tackling team that retreated and coralled all the way from their backline to ours.

I totally accept that there was a lot of relearning going on on the part of the players in 2007-08, but the coach also was doing some relearning as well.

BTW, I lived in Sydney for most of 2005 and watched several Swans games live at the SCG and, yes, they sometimes played man on man. Like about 10% of the time. The rest of the time they were doing something different: it looked a hell of a lot like flooding to me, but I don't pretend to be an expert.

Look, let's be honest here.

SrR is just a lovesick groupie who throws all logic out the window when it comes to talking about Ross Lyon or Grant Thomas.

He made some silly calls years ago, and is still clinging on to them. At any cost - even if it means slowly killing off his 'internet credibility' in the process.

We all know GT did a good job.
We all know that Lyon is doing a good job.
We all know that early on he wasn't.
We all know that what he brought to the table upon his arrival was shabby.
We all know that he changed the 'game plan' and since things have improved.

The problem for SrR and the likes, is that the above crush their ramblings that 'anyone could coach this list to a flag' back in 2006 and 'all we need is a coach with a Plan B to win a flag'. Which oddly changed very quickly in 2007 to 'GT ruined the list' and some other beauties once it was realised the 2006 ramblings were nonsense.

The problem is that posters with massive egos like SrR can't simply say 'Ooops, I was wrong', but instead spend hours and hours trying to convince everyone that infact they were right and attempt to rewrite history to do so.

Seems now that that has failed, and/or everyone else doesn't care anymore and moved on, we're resorting to gathering support from the geniuses over at BigFooty.


I could go on (and most likely SrR will), but frankly the rest is history and had been done to death.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no point in discussing this issue with SrR because his ego won't allow him ever to admit he was wrong. And secondly he is far too deeply in love with Ross Lyon and is too emotive about the subject to keep the discussion sensible.

[markp]

"We all know"... what a tosser!

[rodgerfox]

"We all know"... what a tosser!

We do Markp. We all do. Even you.

[Mr Magic]

[
Some of us think GT did a good job.
Some of us think that Lyon is doing a good job.
Some of us think that early on he wasn't.
Some of us think that what he brought to the table upon his arrival was shabby.
Some of us think that he changed the 'game plan' and since things have improved.

Edited in the interests of accuracy.

[markp]

I know GT was never going to coach us to a flag.
I know RL has proven he is capable.

I know the only 'we' you can rightly claim to speak for is rodgerfox and violent stool.

Time to move on... I dont care if you are GT, are related to GT, or are in love with GT... just move on.

[rodgerfox]

I know GT was never going to coach us to a flag.
I know RL has proven he is capable.

I know the only 'we' you can rightly claim to speak for is rodgerfox and violent stool.

Time to move on... I dont care if you are GT, are related to GT, or are in love with GT... just move on.

I feel neither love, hate or anywhere in the middle for GT.

Must admit I enjoy his media persona quite a bit.


But Markp, and this is something that you and many others on here can't grasp - the fact that he did a good job as our coach doesn't mean that you love him, or even like him.

I know that's difficult for people like you to grasp. I know the 'with us or against us' mentality and the inability to see things other than black or white make posters like me tough for you to deal with.


The good thing for you is, you're not on your own. That suits you and your kind.

The bad thing for me is, you're not on your own.

[rodgerfox]

I know GT was never going to coach us to a flag.

You were right.

I know RL has proven he is capable.

Hmmm, what I know is he had a chance and blew it badly. We know that.


Besides, once again you're going down the 'with us or against us' path. If you think GT did as good job - you must hate Ross Lyon. If you think Lyon did a bad job, you must love GT.

Poor Markp. I genuinely pity you.

[markp]

I know GT was never going to coach us to a flag.
I know RL has proven he is capable.

I know the only 'we' you can rightly claim to speak for is rodgerfox and violent stool.

Time to move on... I dont care if you are GT, are related to GT, or are in love with GT... just move on.

I feel neither love, hate or anywhere in the middle for GT.

Must admit I enjoy his media persona quite a bit.


But Markp, and this is something that you and many others on here can't grasp - the fact that he did a good job as our coach doesn't mean that you love him, or even like him.

I know that's difficult for people like you to grasp. I know the 'with us or against us' mentality and the inability to see things other than black or white make posters like me tough for you to deal with.


The good thing for you is, you're not on your own. That suits you and your kind.

The bad thing for me is, you're not on your own.

WTF??

Let it go.

Why do you care about the (now set) opinions people hold on this particular person and his contribution?

It was all how ago?

Just let it go.

[rodgerfox]

WTF??

Let it go.

Why do you care about the (now set) opinions people hold on this particular person and his contribution?

It was all how ago?

Just let it go.

Let it go??

I was responding to a post from you only moments ago.

[markp]

Besides, once again you're going down the 'with us or against us' path. If you think GT did as good job - you must hate Ross Lyon. If you think Lyon did a bad job, you must love GT.

Poor Markp. I genuinely pity you.

How am I doing anything of the sort...

Pure gold...

[samoht]

I challenge those here who have recorded our big win vs the Kangaroos to sit down and watch it again all the way through.
I must admit I struggled (I had enough after 1 quarter).

Just try it as an exercise if you've recorded it.

I'm therefore convinced ..
that tight, hard fought games where goals are often a premium rather than a given are much more interesting and absorbing.

The Bulldog and Magpie games for instance are beauties, I'd watch them again and again and I don't rate them any lower than the Freo game which was just as tight and hard fought but where more goals were kicked due to the brilliance of some star forwards, some long goals and some straight shooting.

Games where one side is allowed time and space to operate and dominate are not exciting to watch regardless of how many goals are kicked - tight contests always are (to me anyway).

Above all I'm excited that RL has got our team playing tough relentless footy... we are treating every game like a final and teams are going to have to earn each goal - if that results in a low score so be it - it's no less exciting to watch.

[saintsRrising]

sRr, the logic of your argument would be compelling but for one inconvenient fact: our style changed markedly in mid 2008. I don't know how or why, but it did. Before that point, we didn't really "zone", we just flooded. .

I think MB that one of the changes that Lyon swapped the players from "corralling" to attacking the ball carrier. This greatly upped the pressure on the opposing team and generates more turn-overs from them.

Both had zones.

Last year post Hawks finals thrashing of us saw the "forward press" being introduced.

Lyon has kept changing the gameplan (and remembeing that it is not just one gameplan anyway).


And yes the Swans too back themn did not always play the one way (just as the Saints do not now) as no team exists ina vaccum. Different opponents playing different ways, different sized grounds, weather etc all are at play.

I am not sure why there is so much angst about a coach changing and evolving his gameplan. To me that Lyon does change and evolve our gameplan isa good thing.

You may have forgotten but this was in the end one of my major criticisms of the former coach was that when the gameplan was worked out to end the streak, that he did not tactically move on.

There seems to be some weird and twisted logic going on that because the Saints are playing differently now (and we play differently week to week now as well) that this makes the appointment of Lyon wrong in the first place.

I would bea lot more concerned if we had a coach too rigid in his thinking who would not change and evolove.

Things change in AFL.

Just look at the Hawks 2008 where their tactics that year (Buddies Box, Midfield Rolling Zone and GF Rushed Behinds) gave them a vital edge. But the last tactic has hada rule change and the opposition coaches have worked out the first two. Gameplan was the Hawks have stagnated.

Things change, coaches need to change. This is a good thing.


Back on the forward press.. I have no idea when Lyon first thought of this.

We do know however that from his first day on the job that one of the areas that he declared he needed to change was forward pressure.

Since then we have seen all of our forwards greatly improve in this aspect of the game.

Mini was developed in a superb defensive forward to lock the ball into our forward line. Schneider was recuited and while many of us were excited about his goal kicking, it was also the defensive side of his game that wasa good aquistion to our forward line.

point of this is that Lyon is clearly over time seeking to improve the team.

There is no magic wand. A coach will not get it all right in his first game...and indeed when you are changing the way the team plays it will require a while to assemble the team you need.

[rodgerfox]

Last year post Hawks finals thrashing of us saw the "forward press" being introduced.

And guess who brought that to the club? Go on, have a guess.

Actually, don't answer that yet. Go and get a cuppa and get a cushion ready, because you're going to feel a bit faint when you find out.

[saintsRrising]

SrR is just a lovesick groupie who throws all logic out the window when it comes to talking about Ross Lyon or Grant Thomas.

He made some silly calls years ago, and is still clinging on to them. At any cost - even if it means slowly killing off his 'internet credibility' in the process.
.

Rodge if you are going to throw mud, at least have the balls to actually state what you mean.

What were my calls that were silly?

[rodgerfox]

Since then we have seen all of our forwards greatly improve in this aspect of the game.

Mini was developed in a superb defensive forward to lock the ball into our forward line.

Correction. Since the recruitment of Leigh Tudor as Forward Coach this has improved greatly.

It reeked in 07, and in 08.

So please. let's not rewrite history again to try to win an argument.

[SainterK]

'We all know that what he brought to the table upon his arrival was shabby'

We are allowed to differ in opinions aren't we, I don't agree with this.

[saintsRrising]

Since then we have seen all of our forwards greatly improve in this aspect of the game.

Mini was developed in a superb defensive forward to lock the ball into our forward line.

Correction. Since the recruitment of Leigh Tudor as Forward Coach this has improved greatly.

It reeked in 07, and in 08.

So please. let's not rewrite history again to try to win an argument.

You have interesting logic Rodge.

WTF do you think Tudor was headhunted for????????????????????.

Now I will go out on a limb here..it was to improve the performance of the forward line.


I cannot fathom why you expect instant solutions. I have liked Lyon from Day 1 because he has continued to face up to problems, and put in place solutions to them. He announced in his first press conference some issues that he would work on, and he has.

In various later inteviews he has indentified various issues to be worked on...and he has.

This is an ongoing process. If one intended solution does not work, he tries something else.

If the playing field changes (and it has), it moves on...

PS. Bit hard for Schneider to have added to our forward pressure in 2007, as he had not been recruited yet!!!

[Saints43]

I think MB that one of the changes that Lyon swapped the players from "corralling" to attacking the ball carrier. This greatly upped the pressure on the opposing team and generates more turn-overs from them.

For me, this is the major change. Instead of 'corralling' and conceding ground we started attacking the carrier and pushing towards our goals. This change reduced the number of points scored against us. And it was a major philosophical change.

Of course game plans don't mean much if the players don't work hard and that is an area I trust in every week.

[saintsRrising]

I think MB that one of the changes that Lyon swapped the players from "corralling" to attacking the ball carrier. This greatly upped the pressure on the opposing team and generates more turn-overs from them.

For me, this is the major change. Instead of 'corralling' and conceding ground we started attacking the carrier and pushing towards our goals. This change reduced the number of points scored against us.

Of course game plans don't mean much if the players don't work hard and that is an area I trust in every week.

Fully agree with both of these.

And if there are things that are "instant" then the change from "corralling" is one such instant fix.

[samoht]

Let's not overlook something ...

I think the game plan is not the main reason why we restrict the opposition scores.

The main reason for me is ..
We have a terrific defence - most sides with our defence and applying a reasonable midfield and forward pressure would restrict the opposition scores to around our levels.

How succesful would we be in restricting the opposition scores to current levels with Richmonds back 6... and if we had the same game plan ?

[na exa]

i love it when the boys come out to play


how could you not !!!

hahahahahaha

[35...LEGEND]

I know GT was never going to coach us to a flag.

You were right.

I know RL has proven he is capable.

Hmmm, what I know is he had a chance and blew it badly. We know that.


Besides, once again you're going down the 'with us or against us' path. If you think GT did as good job - you must hate Ross Lyon. If you think Lyon did a bad job, you must love GT.

Poor Markp. I genuinely pity you.

What i know is,Lyon had a beautifully drilled team on the park that day.
Some players choked in front of the big sticks,kept the Cat's in with a sniff,and the rest is history.
Should have been over by 3q time.
The players blew it..not Ross and not the game plan.

Eerily similar to the Dog's game last week,only it was us who pounced late.