Lyon's Coaching

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

Lyons coaching tonight was typical of the "conservative" style he has shown since being at St Kilda.

He makes few changes to the team even if players are out of form
He has introduced very few younger players into the team
He makes few, if any, radical positional changes during games.

Granted that he hasnt needed to for much of the last couple of seasons, but tonight he could have could have thought outside the square a bit and thrown a few players around just to change things up and put Port on the back foot. What would we have lost if he had done so... the game?? Oh yeah... sorry... we did anyway!

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

4 losses in 30 games and he's a one trick pony?

Yes, shame on Ross Lyon! Appalling record! Just hopeless!!

Read the post where I said I should have clarified 'tonight'. Remember never to badly phrase something on this forum, lest it doesnt get discussed and rather you just get abused for being a hater.

Dont expect posters here to read things properly. Most have only one eye!

[maverick]

Lyons coaching tonight was typical of the "conservative" style he has shown since being at St Kilda.

He makes few changes to the team even if players are out of form
He has introduced very few younger players into the team
He makes few, if any, radical positional changes during games.

Granted that he hasnt needed to for much of the last couple of seasons, but tonight he could have could have thought outside the square a bit and thrown a few players around just to change things up and put Port on the back foot. What would we have lost if he had done so... the game?? Oh yeah... sorry... we did anyway!

So something like throwing Dawson forward last week for instance....

[battye]

Lets hope the club is caught cheating on the salery cap and folds. Lyon cant coach, the players are all donkeys and lets face it the colours suck too. Tearing up my membership as we speak and burning all my gear too

BANG BANG

I literally laughed out loud when I read this

[Saintsfan]

We have a fair way to go to improve to reach to Geelong's level but more importantly overtake them

We have two passengers at the moment and Geelong have none

[SydneySainter]

Until he coaches us to a flag, he is a spud

[SainterK]

Everyone was poor, everyone was flat, everyone...

Couple can hold their heads high, but it was just an off night.

You know, I actually came on here expecting everyone to be quite calm and secure given it was just a bad night.

Silly I know...

[saintsRrising]

Everyone was poor, everyone was flat, everyone...

Couple can hold their heads high, but it was just an off night.

...

Yes that is how I saw it too.

We were off our game and PA were on theirs.

They wanted to win more and did.

[saintbrat]

discussion I had after game, Ross coached against Two senior coaches both of which have shown in past seasons they seem to know how to get their team to play well against, Laidley did it often

+ the team seemed to have very tired legs, as stated above Flat, many getting worked on at 3/4 time which we haven't seen for a while

+ did the wind drop in the last?

[kalsaint]

seriously why cant the morons who obviously dont really care about the saints and just come on here to troll just be banned...

It is possible to be a passionate supporter of the club and also be critical when they perform poorly. Surely we shouldn't be pumping them up tonight simply because we're supporters. Lavish them with praise when they perform well, such as against the Filth and Freo, but also be prepared to criticize when they don't deliver to the standard we (and they) expect.

There is quite a difference between constructive criticism and hysteria. Point me towards a constructive piece of criticism on this board tonight. If you can find more than one post, you are doing better than I.

As supporters, we should be behind the team, not using players and coaches as scapegoats. If you were seriously to take the so called advice on this forum tonight, we would have no coach and no team next week except for Gilbert.

You obviously havent looked hard enough or have your eyes closed. There are plenty of good comments however most have missed that ort out played us tonight and did most of what Ross would like as Saints Footy.

If the game plan isnt working the coach must may the changes, I used to dislike this about GT and still dont understand how coaches believe the team will switch on without a spark to ignite them. Cahnges do that sometimes.

[35...LEGEND]

Lyons coaching tonight was typical of the "conservative" style he has shown since being at St Kilda.

He makes few changes to the team even if players are out of form
He has introduced very few younger players into the team
He makes few, if any, radical positional changes during games.

Granted that he hasnt needed to for much of the last couple of seasons, but tonight he could have could have thought outside the square a bit and thrown a few players around just to change things up and put Port on the back foot. What would we have lost if he had done so... the game?? Oh yeah... sorry... we did anyway!

We led till half way through the last qtr...........despite how badly we were playing.

I would back the boys to come good at some point if I were coaching too...

Who know's.......if you do make the changes and i doesn't work,,you're in even more trouble.

Maybe if we are 4 or 5 goals down around half time..........sure,do something.

Bit of the old Damned if you do and Damned if you don't.


The only thing that bothered me positionally last night was the Gwilt forward move..........could'nt get my head around that one.

[35...LEGEND]

We have a fair way to go to improve to reach to Geelong's level but more importantly overtake them

We have two passengers at the moment and Geelong have none

Geelong had plenty of passengers at Subi a couple of weeks ago....and got beat.

If not for G.Ablett (their Superstar) and lashing's of strange ump decisions,they would have copped a hiding.

Every team has passenger's........we had more than 2 of them tonight and paid the price.

[St. Luke]

4 losses in 30 games and he's a one trick pony?

Yes, shame on Ross Lyon! Appalling record! Just hopeless!!

Read the post where I said I should have clarified 'tonight'. Remember never to badly phrase something on this forum, lest it doesnt get discussed and rather you just get abused for being a hater.

Dont expect posters here to read things properly. Most have only one eye!

No I just get a little tired of the bandwagon getting jolted up and down with people jumping on and off all the time.

All I'm saying is the guy has a pretty respectable record in regards to a win/loss ratio. Is there someone else you'd like to swap him with? I'm sure Bomber Thompson has a lynch mob after his neck too after their loss against the Blues ....that's where I'm coming from

[Con Gorozidis]

i know it sounds crazy but port actually played pretty well. they were hard and desperate. they pressured. their tackles stuck and they moved the ball fast.

[saintsRrising]

Pretty amazing thread.....

We lost by 10 points.

We lost by 10 points despite many of our players clearly having off nights.

We have won 4 games.. Swans 1st, Pies 3rd, Freo 4th...and North 11th.

We had a truly amazing 2009.

In over a year from memory the worst Saints loss is only 14 points or so. The Cats just got done by six goals!!!!

But yet there is carry on like we were 1-4 and not 4-1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All because Lyon did not wave a magic wand and make some magical moves.

NEWSFLASH.. Lyon has built the Saints on team play...not flash. You want flash, go and follow the Dons who play an all out attacking gameplan.

The ability to follow the gameplan, despite the Saint's players having a off night is why the margin was so close, and why we almost still could have won.

Indeed it that last quarter there were ample forward entries to score...but the goals just did not come.

Sometimes it happens.

We overcame both Freo and the Pies not by magical moves, but by sticking to our game plan. Abandoning the gameplan for magical moves would most likey have seen two losses in those games.

Lyon has faith in our gameplan, our players have faith in the gameplan....but quite clearly and sadly quite a number on this forum do not.

[Moccha]

We have a fair way to go to improve to reach to Geelong's level but more importantly overtake them

We have two passengers at the moment and Geelong have none

Really?

Does Tom Hawkins ring a bell?

What about Shannon Byrnes. He wemt really well on the weekend!

Take the blinkers off.

[fingers]

Pretty amazing thread.....

We lost by 10 points.

We lost by 10 points despite many of our players clearly having off nights.

We have won 4 games.. Swans 1st, Pies 3rd, Freo 4th...and North 11th.

We had a truly amazing 2009.

In over a year from memory the worst Saints loss is only 14 points or so. The Cats got done by six goals!!!!

But yet there is carry on like we were 1-4 and not 4-1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All because Lyon did not wave a magic wand and make some magical moves.

NEWSFLASH.. Lyon has built the Saints on team play...not flash. You want flash go and follow the Dons who play an all out attacking gameplan.

The ability to follow the gameplan, despite the Saint' players having a off night is why the margin was so close, and why we almost still could have won.

Indeed it that last quarter there were ample forward entries to score...but the goals just did not come.

Sometimes it happens.

We overcame both Freo and the Pies not by magical moves, but by sticking to our game plan. Abandoniing the gameplan for magical moves would most likey have seen two losses in those games.

Lyon has faith in our gameplan, our players have faith in the gameplan....but quite clearly and sadly quite a number on this forum do not.

Now there's a good post.

[Finna]

After tonights game, does anyone else think RL might be a bit of a one-trick pony? I don't want to be making judgements after just one game, but he seemed very unwilling to make any changes tonight. We clearly weren't going anywhere with the setup we had and there didnt seem to be much flexibility in our playstyle when things werent going well.
Thoughts?

What did you think after the collingwood and fremantle games?

[PJ Sainter]

It seems to me after viewing the game again that this was one that the team was prepared to lose.

The structures were stuck to, the players went through the motions, but there was a lack of intensity for sure.

Perhaps.. something to do with a run of 6 day breaks, Dogs next week, cold, wet and windy in Adelaide, and a couple of players out.

It's a long season, and, as proved last year, an unbeaten run doesn't get you a flag

perhaps it's sometimes better to look at the big picture

[saintspremiers]

It seems to me after viewing the game again that this was one that the team was prepared to lose.

The structures were stuck to, the players went through the motions, but there was a lack of intensity for sure.

Perhaps.. something to do with a run of 6 day breaks, Dogs next week, cold, wet and windy in Adelaide, and a couple of players out.

It's a long season, and, as proved last year, an unbeaten run doesn't get you a flag

perhaps it's sometimes better to look at the big picture

The players didn't seem motivated as per normal.

I reckon when it got windy and wet, their subconcious went back to Grand Final Day.

It was a great learning lesson for Ross, and no doubt if we have to play in adverse conditions again this year, he will approach things differently.

That doesn't necessarily mean a change of structure, but perhaps a change to the mental side of the preperation to the match.

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

Pretty amazing thread.....

We lost by 10 points. CORRECT

We lost by 10 points despite many of our players clearly having off nights. We lost by 10 points despite many of our players clearly having the night off.

We have won 4 games.. Swans 1st, Pies 3rd, Freo 4th...and North 11th. We have won 3 games against worthy opposition

We had a truly amazing 2009. This is 2010

In over a year from memory the worst Saints loss is only 14 points or so. The Cats just got done by six goals!!!! Who cares about the Cats

But yet there is carry on like we were 1-4 and not 4-1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's only "carry on" because you make it that way.

All because Lyon did not wave a magic wand and make some magical moves. Lyon did not make ANY moves.

NEWSFLASH.. Lyon has built the Saints on team play...not flash. You want flash, go and follow the Dons who play an all out attacking gameplan. The Dons are just the Saints without the white

The ability to follow the gameplan, despite the Saint's players having a off night is why the margin was so close, and why we almost still could have won. If we had followed the game plane we WOULD have won

Indeed it that last quarter there were ample forward entries to score...but the goals just did not come. Because Lyon did not put players there who were capable of kicking goals

Sometimes it happens. Sometimes SH1T happens

We overcame both Freo and the Pies not by magical moves, but by sticking to our game plan. Abandoning the gameplan for magical moves would most likey have seen two losses in those games. See aboove re game plan. If we dont stick to the game plan the next option is to change things up

Lyon has faith in our gameplan, our players have faith in the gameplan....but quite clearly and sadly quite a number on this forum do not. We have total faith in our game plan if it is adhered to. Unfortunately we dont have faith in the coach to think outside the square if the players fail to follow the game plan

[saintsRrising]

if the players fail to follow the game plan

How was the gameplan not followed?

IMO if the gameplan had been abandoned in favour of just making "moves"...PA would most likely have run away to a large win.

And again in that last quarter we generated sufficient forward entries to kick a winning score. But the players bungled the opportunities.

[Saintsfan]

if the players fail to follow the game plan

How was the gameplan not followed?

IMO if the gameplan had been abandoned in favour of just making "moves"...PA would most likely have run away to a large win.

And again in that last quarter we generated sufficient forward entries to kick a winning score. But the players bungled the opportunities.

We played a similar game to the multiple losses in 2007 where most were questioning Ross Lyon's coaching ability as we struggled to kick majors.

I said at the time that Ross Lyon was teaching the group to be defensive as a unit as one could see from our scoring prowess that we are able to score goals when necessary. It is similar to what Matthew Knights has done (unsuccessfully) with the Bombers. Teach a squad how to play one way and then play the other, although in Essendon's instance they have botched this by letting the players play attacking at all costs football without concern for defense.

This was similar at St Kilda during Gt's era where the coaching staff were confident we could outscore any team even if a heavy scoring shoot-out type match. In the end it would work the majority of the time thus or finals placings however it would never lead us to the promised land.

Lyon addressed this and therefore added dimensions to our squad that are leaders in the AFL (tackling, pressure et al).

The Port game saw St Kilda lock down defensive football at its very best (well nearly if our footskills were a little better)

We restricted the opposition and played an ultra defensive game that in theory worked pretty well minus the result.

In the end...the gameplane was followed. A team cannot win everything although I expect them to win every match they run out in.

So be it, I make complete sense.

[saintsRrising]

if the players fail to follow the game plan

How was the gameplan not followed?

IMO if the gameplan had been abandoned in favour of just making "moves"...PA would most likely have run away to a large win.

And again in that last quarter we generated sufficient forward entries to kick a winning score. But the players bungled the opportunities.

We played a similar game to the multiple losses in 2007 where most were questioning Ross Lyon's coaching ability as we struggled to kick majors.

I said at the time that Ross Lyon was teaching the group to be defensive as a unit as one could see from our scoring prowess that we are able to score goals when necessary. It is similar to what Matthew Knights has done (unsuccessfully) with the Bombers. Teach a squad how to play one way and then play the other, although in Essendon's instance they have botched this by letting the players play attacking at all costs football without concern for defense.

This was similar at St Kilda during Gt's era where the coaching staff were confident we could outscore any team even if a heavy scoring shoot-out type match. In the end it would work the majority of the time thus or finals placings however it would never lead us to the promised land.

Lyon addressed this and therefore added dimensions to our squad that are leaders in the AFL (tackling, pressure et al).

The Port game saw St Kilda lock down defensive football at its very best (well nearly if our footskills were a little better)

We restricted the opposition and played an ultra defensive game that in theory worked pretty well minus the result.

In the end...the gameplane was followed. A team cannot win everything although I expect them to win every match they run out in.

So be it, I make complete sense.

1/ But spefically how was our gameplan different to the last 3 weeks?

2/ We did not lack for forward entries.


3/ Exactly how far down on our opponents before we are meant to abandon our gameplan and move to 'magic moves"?

I mean is it 2 points, 6 points, 10 points?

[Saintsfan]

if the players fail to follow the game plan

How was the gameplan not followed?

IMO if the gameplan had been abandoned in favour of just making "moves"...PA would most likely have run away to a large win.

And again in that last quarter we generated sufficient forward entries to kick a winning score. But the players bungled the opportunities.

We played a similar game to the multiple losses in 2007 where most were questioning Ross Lyon's coaching ability as we struggled to kick majors.

I said at the time that Ross Lyon was teaching the group to be defensive as a unit as one could see from our scoring prowess that we are able to score goals when necessary. It is similar to what Matthew Knights has done (unsuccessfully) with the Bombers. Teach a squad how to play one way and then play the other, although in Essendon's instance they have botched this by letting the players play attacking at all costs football without concern for defense.

This was similar at St Kilda during Gt's era where the coaching staff were confident we could outscore any team even if a heavy scoring shoot-out type match. In the end it would work the majority of the time thus or finals placings however it would never lead us to the promised land.

Lyon addressed this and therefore added dimensions to our squad that are leaders in the AFL (tackling, pressure et al).

The Port game saw St Kilda lock down defensive football at its very best (well nearly if our footskills were a little better)

We restricted the opposition and played an ultra defensive game that in theory worked pretty well minus the result.

In the end...the gameplane was followed. A team cannot win everything although I expect them to win every match they run out in.

So be it, I make complete sense.

1/ But spefically how was our gameplan different to the last 3 weeks?


2/ Exactly how far down on our opponents before we are meant to our gameplan and move to 'magic moves"?

I mean is it 2 points, 6 points, 10 points?

Our gameplan is not different to that of 2007 however we are now able to balance attack and defence. During 2007 we struggled with the defence as we had not really been able to execute it and we were not coached it effectively prior.

There difference is that we can execute what the coaching staff wants us to do. Obviously it works as over the past 2 years we have done pretty well despite the Grand Final loss.

Ross Lyon at times is conservative however I prefer a coach that does not switch around players easily i.e other coaches in search of a quick fix.

Players are suited to one position because they are best at it (logical huh?) and more often than not they succeed and beat their opponents in doing so.

We have only seen a few times where Ross Lyon's coaching within the last 5-10 minutes of a game has been testes. The Prelim, the Grand Final and the Port game. To me though the Port game was winnable however we just didnt play well.

The Grand Final was a would have/could have/nearly there if we kicked straight scenario. Sure Ball did not get game time (much documented) however he had no opponent and still did not hurt with his kicking. Sure Kosi could have gone into the ruck however where do King and The Big Show go? Both could not have been on the bench and one would have argued that Kosi would have been more value on a wet day in the forward line than having him in the ruck and King or The Big Show in the goalsquare.

The prelim (despite the close score) was always ours. We held them and played well in the big moments.

So far we have not ( in my opinion) seen failure in Ross Lyons' match day coaching despite the two losses out of the three matches mentioned. We are a very well trained and drilled squad and through this we are going to win the majority of matches we play in