Make Koschitzke Saints No.1 ruckman: Thomas

[rodgerfox]

yet he thinks ruck-men are over-rated

No he doesn't.

[Milan Faletic]

Usually if a player is totally out of form, he gets dropped. Kosi needs a spell at Sandy so he can get his confidence back and get that powerful marking ability working again. I'm sure RL is probably giving him every chance this year, but his patience must be wearing thin.

If we had Roo, I would tend to agree, and if we weren't playing WB at Etihad, I would also tend to agree that maybe he should get dropped, and if the PA game was under the roof I would definitely agree.

Given that he will still take a key defender means that there is a role for him this week. However, it would be a big stand by RL, similar to the Dal/Milne omissions, and may be the tonic.

The risk is that if his replacement doesn't fire, what happens then?

If we managed to get up and beat PA, we would be 5-0 and then the risk could be worth it. Kosi and so unpredictable, and while that is a nightmare for us, it is also a nightmare for the opposition.

I would probably bring in McEvoy for King, just for that extra option or if RL uses Kosi in the ruck, bring in Stanley or Lynch if available. I suspect McEvoy may come in, Mini may get dropped for Steven.

[rodgerfox]

Given that he will still take a key defender

I think one of the big problems with Kosi is that his man can be very damaging.

When he gets beaten, often his man get quite a bit of the nut.


Lake has hurt him badly before offensively.

[matrix]

sure ive read or heard kozi say somewhere that his fav possie is actually ruck...

some distant memory of hearing/reading something

[saintsRrising]

sure ive read or heard kozi say somewhere that his fav possie is actually ruck...

It probably is...but it is a team game and he has to play where it is best for the team.

[Milan Faletic]

sure ive read or heard kozi say somewhere that his fav possie is actually ruck...

GT said it last night on Footy Classified.

[Quixote]

I have just read the article and not read a response in this thread, yet.

I thought I'd just say that I COMPLETELY AGREE with what Thomas said.

I would like to see Gardiner and Kosi as our ruck combination going forward.

Lyon needs to show a bit more flexibility and, possibly, people management skills.

[matrix]

it was ages ago i heard him say it

im not saying he should be put there because its his fav possie and go against the team thing.

im saying i heard him saying it somewhere.....ages ago.
and presumed if i was correct (in hearing that) thats 'maybe' why GT said it.

[Quixote]

Currently, King and Gardy are spending 50% of the game on the pine.

Why not drop King, still have Gardy play his 50%, when he's off, Kosi rucks, when he's on, Kosi floats forward, or has a rest himself?

And bring in a lead-up forward, ffs. Stanley, Lynch, Macca, whoever.

[saintsRrising]

and, possibly, people management skills.

???

I don't think Kosi has ever been consistent aprt from his Rising Star Year.

Kosi's 2009 was quite ok though.

[saintsRrising]

Currently, King and Gardy are spending 50% of the game on the pine.

Why not drop King, still have Gardy play his 50%, when he's off, Kosi rucks, when he's on, Kosi floats forward, or has a rest himself?

And bring in a lead-up forward, ffs. Stanley, Lynch, Macca, whoever.

Yes Kosi can play No 2 ruck...but I would not favour if he was a our prime ruck option.

Still needs to play large chinks of the game forward IMO.

But say 20 minutes forward, 10 minutes on the ball per quarter.

[Quixote]

and, possibly, people management skills.

???

I don't think Kosi has ever been consistent aprt from his Rising Star Year.

Kosi's 2009 was quite ok though.

At times, I don't think RL's rigid belief in team and principles lends itself to elite people management and getting the best out of individuals.

Don't get me wrong - there are plenty of examples completely in opposition to this where Ross has had great success.

But I just think if there was an area he could work on this would be it.

[Milan Faletic]

Given that he will still take a key defender

I think one of the big problems with Kosi is that his man can be very damaging.

When he gets beaten, often his man get quite a bit of the nut.


Lake has hurt him badly before offensively.

Fair point, Rodger. That's why I am oscillating so much in my thoughts. It a sort of a "damned if you or damned if you don't" decision for the coaching staff.

If I had to play devil's advocate or maybe just coach, I would give him one more chance against the WB but move him around the ground, play him in the ruck, even swap him with a defender from time to time.

Even as I write this, I could just as easily say he should be dropped. It is a critical decision and I'm glad I don't have to make it.

[older saint]

Kosi is not a backman. He was once when he was 10 kilo lighter, 3 cm smaller and had much better body. Who could he seriously go with for a game. Hall - No. Brown - No, fevola - No, Buddy or Roughhead - No. Bradshaw- No. He is not designed for that any more.

Perhap start him in the ruck for 10 min on Friday to get him in to the game but otherwise he is a full forward who had a poor night on a night which was poor for ALL forwards.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I agree with you rogerfox ... I think playing Kosi in the ruck for periods is going to help us ...

Instead of trying to replace Roo with Kosi, we need to keep it unpredictable, and use our medium sized and smaller players to fill the void in terms of goals, at the same time as giving Kosi space to float around have the biggest impact he can -- play to his strengths.


I would also be bringing McEvoy in and getting SERIOUS game time into him ... the way they're going, we won't have either of King or Gardiner next year.

I agree with both of you, play him there in bursts...it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Oh, and yep on McEvoy.

+1
I also agree that Kosi would benefit from PERIODS in the ruck, as he really seems to gain confidence from getting his hands on the ball. One or two of those big marks over a pack, when floating down back, seems to give him a boost and the confidence to then do well forward.
The other thing about him playing in the ruck, which is what he did during those 4 amazing games he played there years ago, is his ability to drift forward from the centre bounce and become a target inside 50. That's what he did during those games and he was kicking 4 or 5 goals per game, playing mainly in the ruck.
I think it may be time to go with Gardiner, McEvoy and Kosi, with the first two playing mainly in the ruck, but also spending time forward and Kosi also spending some time in the ruck. Having King spend around 50% of each match on the bench and not being a goalkicking option, isn't really ideal.
This week may be especially ideal for Kosi to spend some time in the ruck, as Lake may get 30+ possies on him, if he plays the whole game forward. If he gets smashed by Lake it could shatter his confidence.

[Bernard Shakey]

I agree with you rogerfox ... I think playing Kosi in the ruck for periods is going to help us ...

Instead of trying to replace Roo with Kosi, we need to keep it unpredictable, and use our medium sized and smaller players to fill the void in terms of goals, at the same time as giving Kosi space to float around have the biggest impact he can -- play to his strengths.


I would also be bringing McEvoy in and getting SERIOUS game time into him ... the way they're going, we won't have either of King or Gardiner next year.

I agree with both of you, play him there in bursts...it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Oh, and yep on McEvoy.

+1
I also agree that Kosi would benefit from PERIODS in the ruck, as he really seems to gain confidence from getting his hands on the ball. One or two of those big marks over a pack, when floating down back, seems to give him a boost and the confidence to then do well forward.
The other thing about him playing in the ruck, which is what he did during those 4 amazing games he played there years ago, is his ability to drift forward from the centre bounce and become a target inside 50. That's what he did during those games and he was kicking 4 or 5 goals per game, playing mainly in the ruck.
I think it may be time to go with Gardiner, McEvoy and Kosi, with the first two playing mainly in the ruck, but also spending time forward and Kosi also spending some time in the ruck. Having King spend around 50% of each match on the bench and not being a goalkicking option, isn't really ideal.
This week may be especially ideal for Kosi to spend some time in the ruck, as Lake may get 30+ possies on him, if he plays the whole game forward. If he gets smashed by Lake it could shatter his confidence.

"shatter his confidence"? Surely you jest?

[Spinner]

Gee im sick of this control freak putting his two cents into everything at the club.


How anyone can trust him based on how he operates even in the media is kidding themselves.


The bloke is pigheaded - He might get a few things right....But having that attribute its the few things he gets wrong that will always be his downfall.



Piss off.

[degruch]

Hmmm...so GT's a ruck expert now???

For the record, I've mentioned in about 7 threads that attempting to replace Roo on our forward line is folly...and I'm not the only one calling for structures rather than replicas. I'm no expert, but I'm happy to submit as many paid articles to the football press on the subject as they like.

[saintspremiers]

Kosi is OK in short bursts in the ruck, alternating with being up forward or resting on the pine IMO.

[plugger66]

Gee im sick of this control freak putting his two cents into everything at the club.


How anyone can trust him based on how he operates even in the media is kidding themselves.


The bloke is pigheaded - He might get a few things right....But having that attribute its the few things he gets wrong that will always be his downfall.



Piss off.

I agree. From now on if he is asked a question on the Saints in that show that he is paid to give an opinion he should say no comment. Afterall he wouldnt need the money if he was sacked as he only has 8 kids and a wife to look after. What is GT thinking.

[na exa]

and a mansion in hawthorn to upkeep.
petrol to buy.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

...
This week may be especially ideal for Kosi to spend some time in the ruck, as Lake may get 30+ possies on him, if he plays the whole game forward. If he gets smashed by Lake it could shatter his confidence.

"shatter his confidence"? Surely you jest?

While the idea itself may be sound.... the idea that Kosi is playing with any confidence right now is frightening.

It implies he could be less effective...

(note: I'm generally a fan of the big fella, but his last 3 games are of the kind that make you wonder how soon Stanley can prove his endurance...)

[SainterK]

...
This week may be especially ideal for Kosi to spend some time in the ruck, as Lake may get 30+ possies on him, if he plays the whole game forward. If he gets smashed by Lake it could shatter his confidence.

"shatter his confidence"? Surely you jest?

While the idea itself may be sound.... the idea that Kosi is playing with any confidence right now is frightening.

It implies he could be less effective...

(note: I'm generally a fan of the big fella, but his last 3 games are of the kind that make you wonder how soon Stanley can prove his endurance...)

Apart from the little hiccup resulting in his holiday, was his game against the Swans so bad?

He had 2 goals from three shots, a goal assist, a couple of tackles...he also used his body a bit around the ground, he was looking OK and seemed to like his bursts in the ruck.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

"shatter his confidence"? Surely you jest?

Fair point. Maybe send it to an all new, unwelcomed low.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

After seeing how well he went in the last 15 mins (when he was moved onto the ball) I think it's very fair to say he needs to spend a lot more time there, at least for the time being. We were smashed in the ruck for most of the night and he then clearly won all 3 of the centre bounces he contested. King and Gardi didn't look like getting a clear hitout in the centre before that. Hudson monstered them on a regular basis. Kosi also looked very dangerous after the bounces, whereas one of the aforementioned almost resembles a statue, once the hitout is contested.
Kosi bolting forward after the second of those bounces (where he then duly marked and kicked it long- where Armo then soccered it through) was like a flashback to that great period a few years ago (when he was BOG 3 or 4 weeks in a row). He looked like he came to life when he was moved into the middle.
I think it's time to bring McEvoy in and rotate the two of them through full forward and the ruck, especially this week. We could do without having King there, as he's so slow and they're a very quick team, with a very mobile Kruezer in the ruck. We'll be quicker overall and we'll need all the speed we can afford against them.
Big Mac may not kick 4 goals, but he'll provide a contest and he probably won't kick less than Kosi has at FF in the past two weeks. And Kosi may kick more playing in the ruck (by running forward from the bounces) than he has playing at FF. Alternatively, we go in with Zac at FF and Kosi and Gardi alternating in the ruck, as there may not be a suitable match-up for Zac down back. Again Zac will provide a contest and at least bring the ball to ground level, for the likes of Milne. And Kosi, when he's playing in the ruck, will push forward as well, where he seems more dangerous than he often does playing at FF.
We were far too slow overall on Friday night and had the Bulldogs kicked reasonably straight early we'd most likely have been smashed. We don't want to tempt fate twice. It may be time for the slowest of them all to play for Sandy. McEvoy may not be that much quicker, but at least he provides a genuine option up forward, freeing up Kosi to play in the ruck in bursts.