Round 2 side

[saintsRrising]

Actually wouldn't be surprised if McEvoy actually starts at Full Forward as he is more mobile than both of them.

I think that Patto, Ben and Gardi will all rotate through FF.

Remains to be seen who plays the most gametime there.

[plugger66]

Actually wouldn't be surprised if McEvoy actually starts at Full Forward as he is more mobile than both of them.

I think that Patto, Ben and Gardi will all rotate through FF.

Remains to be seen who plays the most gametime there.

Would have to be Patterson or he wouldnt have been picked. MG isnt a FF and Ben isnt yet. Not sure Patterson is but he played forward last week for Sandy.

[St Fidelius]

I had just a friendly bet with a fellow Saints supporter at work who was raving on about Stanley...

I said to him that he is still a rookie and raw and he would be lucky to play 3 games this year...

He disagreed, so we will wait and see...

Stanley is our future and to me he will be very very handy in years to come, but not now....

He played well in the NAB series and that is where most Clubs give their younger players a go, but it is way different in the home and away series...

Look at Tom Rockliff for Brisbane, he stared in the NAB series and has not been selected yet.

The same can be said about Gary Rohan for Sydney...

The two players I mentioned are not tall players like Stanley and not even rookies...

Just be patient with Stanley IMO

[Bernard Shakey]

I had just a friendly bet with a fellow Saints supporter at work who was raving on about Stanley...

I said to him that he is still a rookie and raw and he would be lucky to play 3 games this year...

He disagreed, so we will wait and see...

Stanley is our future and to me he will be very very handy in years to come, but not now....

He played well in the NAB series and that is where most Clubs give their younger players a go, but it is way different in the home and away series...

Look at Tom Rockliff for Brisbane, he stared in the NAB series and has not been selected yet.

The same can be said about Gary Rohan for Sydney...

The two players I mentioned are not tall players like Stanley and not even rookies...

Just be patient with Stanley IMO

Agree, Stanley is a future star, but he's not a rookie, he is a listed player.

[maverick]

Actually wouldn't be surprised if McEvoy actually starts at Full Forward as he is more mobile than both of them.

I think that Patto, Ben and Gardi will all rotate through FF.

Remains to be seen who plays the most gametime there.

Would have to be Patterson or he wouldnt have been picked. MG isnt a FF and Ben isnt yet. Not sure Patterson is but he played forward last week for Sandy.

Who is Patterson, is Mike making a comeback?

[plugger66]

Actually wouldn't be surprised if McEvoy actually starts at Full Forward as he is more mobile than both of them.

I think that Patto, Ben and Gardi will all rotate through FF.

Remains to be seen who plays the most gametime there.

Would have to be Patterson or he wouldnt have been picked. MG isnt a FF and Ben isnt yet. Not sure Patterson is but he played forward last week for Sandy.

Who is Patterson, is Mike making a comeback?

Now that would be a great effort. Sorry Pattison.

[Bernard Shakey]

I'm very surprised to see Pattison in this week.
Really thought he was a back up to the back up.
Seems Ross sees a role for him.

I'm waiting with anticipation.

[maverick]

Actually wouldn't be surprised if McEvoy actually starts at Full Forward as he is more mobile than both of them.

I think that Patto, Ben and Gardi will all rotate through FF.

Remains to be seen who plays the most gametime there.

Would have to be Patterson or he wouldnt have been picked. MG isnt a FF and Ben isnt yet. Not sure Patterson is but he played forward last week for Sandy.

Who is Patterson, is Mike making a comeback?

Now that would be a great effort. Sorry Pattison.

That it would

[wasaintsfan]

i think itll be good to see pattison get a chance

every one questioned why he was brought over if he was struggling at richmond..

i think he should have potential (i dont remember watching him in home and away season so didnt stand out.. but its richmond so who did?)

i hope he comes out on sat and plays out of his skin and shows he was a first round pick for a reason

[Armoooo]

In his first couple of years I thought he had a great deal of potential and I recall wishing he was with us, however he didn't improve as quickly as a young player should, even for a ruckman and if anything, he actually started going backwards.

Hopefully his stagnation was due to a lack of confidence and he can really turn the corner with us... IMO he was never as bad at Richmond as Dawson was at Hawthorn...

[degruch]

Actually wouldn't be surprised if McEvoy actually starts at Full Forward as he is more mobile than both of them.

Totally agree...no doubt Big Mac will be at FF some stage during the game, hope he doesn't try to mark the ball with his face this time!

Congrats to Pattison for his first game as a Sainter...best of ruck to him.

[vacuous space]

Not sure what you define as a ground ball as he did a good job of roving a few goals in the forward line.

It's not my definition. A ground ball is a possession won at ground level. Either a hard ball get or a loose ball get. You can work out roughly how many a player has got by taking their contested possessions and subtracting the number of contested marks and free kicks. Stanley had one during the NAB. He got it in the Collingwood game.

A key forward is just a fancy word for a forward 50 marking target. A flanker is just a position on a team sheet. We've got Schneider and McQualter named as flankers this week. Those are ground level forwards, which is, I think, most people's perception of what a flanker is. Stanley is not a ground level forward. He's not a ROK type medium forward. He's a key forward.

[plugger66]

Not sure what you define as a ground ball as he did a good job of roving a few goals in the forward line.

It's not my definition. A ground ball is a possession won at ground level. Either a hard ball get or a loose ball get. You can work out roughly how many a player has got by taking their contested possessions and subtracting the number of contested marks and free kicks. Stanley had one during the NAB. He got it in the Collingwood game.

A key forward is just a fancy word for a forward 50 marking target. A flanker is just a position on a team sheet. We've got Schneider and McQualter named as flankers this week. Those are ground level forwards, which is, I think, most people's perception of what a flanker is. Stanley is not a ground level forward. He's not a ROK type medium forward. He's a key forward.

Yep totally agree. I remember when the Herald Sun started pting 6 in the forward line, cetre and half back line without actual positions and they were bagged for it but that is how footy is now. Even that is probably outdated because we usually have 7 in our backline.

No such thing as HFF or HBF they just play on the ball when around their area.

[saintsRrising]

A key forward is just a fancy word for a forward 50 marking target. .

We have different definitions then. Not that there is anything wrong with that. And there is always overalp in roles...ie Stanley roving goals and Milne leading to take a mark.

Losts of small forwards are or have been marking targets. But to me that is nota key forward role.

A key forward to me is someone you can kick too when there is no other option and you need height and strength for that....as well as talent. They have to bea good contest mark. (Kosi by the way strugglesa bit because his body on body work is not quite good enough for my definition of a key forward).

Milne has for example often lead well and taken quite a few marks. But if the oppostion is smart they play someone like Hayy O on him and then that chops out that element of Milnes game entirely...as Milne is not really a key forward and cannot cope in the air against a taller defender.

They might also be relied on for busting packs etc such as Kosi does, in order to provide opportunities for the smalls if the tall does not mark the ball...and this is probaly why Pattison has been favoured.

So if the ball is coming down I would expect Patto as the Key forward to be competing for the mark and Milne to be postiong to rove the ball.

Stanley is still light built and so I do not see hm as being yet quite suitable as a FF option.
However if Patto fails...then Stanley may well become the next best option if Kosi is still out.

When played in the seniors this year I see it more likely that Stanley wll be given what to me is flankers role....to play wide and present opportunities and be ready to rove the ball off spoils.

This to me makes use of his pace agaility and avois his current lack of body strength.

Another year or two of gym work though and we will havea much stronger Stanley.

But in 2010, I am not sure you want him ina role where he has to bash and crash his body...and to me that is part of being whata key forard does.

Even Roo who leads and runs a lot still has to put his body on the line.

[saintsRrising]

Not sure what you define as a ground ball as he did a good job of roving a few goals in the forward line.

It's not my definition. A ground ball is a possession won at ground level. Either a hard ball get or a loose ball get. .

I don't have the tapes to check...but I seem to remember Stanley earning more than one.

Indeed I would have thought that he kicked two goals that way.

[vacuous space]

I remember when the Herald Sun started pting 6 in the forward line, cetre and half back line without actual positions and they were bagged for it but that is how footy is now. Even that is probably outdated because we usually have 7 in our backline.

Hawthorn submitted their team yesterday as a list of 22 players. I'm sure they later added positions, but I'm equally sure that coaches don't care at all about how the team looks in the paper. So, yeah, team sheets are pretty much useless.

I think most teams go for a 5-7-6 setup sacrificing a forward for an extra mid, leaving a spare in defence. Last year we rotated an extra small forward in off the bench, but this year it looks like we're rotating a mid through the forward line which gives us an extra mid spot on the bench. On any team, you've probably got 10 or 11 guys who will play in the midfield each week, and another 5 or 6 who can play there if needs be. It's all about the midfield.

[vacuous space]

We have different definitions then. Not that there is anything wrong with that. And there is always overalp in roles...ie Stanley roving goals and Milne leading to take a mark.

Milne gets less marks inside fifty than he does ground balls. He gets considerably less contested marks. I don't think you'd call him a forward 50 target. Same with Mini and Schneider. In terms of ratios, Stanley got more of his NAB possessions off marks than Roo did last year, and a higher percentage of those marks were contested.

Even if the stat keeper made a few errors, Stanley is clearly more of a marking target than a ground level player. We play two tall forwards. If Stanley is going to get selected, it's going to be in one of those spots. He's not going to be selected as a third tall.

[saintsRrising]

We have different definitions then. Not that there is anything wrong with that. And there is always overalp in roles...ie Stanley roving goals and Milne leading to take a mark.

Milne gets less marks inside fifty than he does ground balls. He gets considerably less contested marks. I don't think you'd call him a forward 50 target. Same with Mini and Schneider. In terms of ratios, Stanley got more of his NAB possessions off marks than Roo did last year, and a higher percentage of those marks were contested.

Even if the stat keeper made a few errors, Stanley is clearly more of a marking target than a ground level player. We play two tall forwards. If Stanley is going to get selected, it's going to be in one of those spots. He's not going to be selected as a third tall.

My point on Milne was not that he was only a marking target..just that there can be an overlap in roles.

Certainly agree that Stanley is more of a marker than ground level player. While ultimately do not see him asa flanker...I would see at present if he gets senior game that he will be in the pocket or on the flank.

Not all third talls are great groundball players. ie I don't think the Lions recruited Staker for his grounball skills and I don't think he is going to take Brown's or Fev's spot. He will play on the flank.

Stanley is no Milne groundball-wise but would be handy enough given his other assetts. ie Marking and pace...

[saintsRrising]

Back on Pattison.

This game and upto the next 2 games will give us a good indication of where he is at...and whther he can be a useful back-up.

If he comes in and plays serviceable game then I will call that a win.
If it is more than serviceable then that is a real bonus.

Mind you when the Saints picked up Patto...one of the reasons was coverage as a key defender. And with Hale and Goldstein both be over 200cm the abilty to play Patto back if required may well have been a factor in his selection.

[Solar]

Back on Pattison.

This game and upto the next 2 games will give us a good indication of where he is at...and whther he can be a useful back-up.

If he comes in and plays serviceable game then I will call that a win.
If it is more than serviceable then that is a real bonus.

Mind you when the Saints picked up Patto...one of the reasons was coverage as a key defender. And with Hale and Goldstein both be over 200cm the abilty to play Patto back if required may well have been a factor in his selection.

I'm not sold on ruckman as defenders, would rather play short and back the key defenders to work as a group to beat the taller forwards. Good chance for patto and sheesh the tiger fans will be ropeable if we can turn this guy into a serviceable player.

But for mine pattison coming in highlights the big loss allen was. He would be coming into 30-50 odd games and be either a foil for the two big blokes or back up for kosi. Hopefully patto and stanely can put pressure on kosi to keep his spot in the near future. plus don't rule out cahill, big wraps from some out of SA

[saintsRrising]

[I'm not sold on ruckman as defenders,

I did say if required....

So yes I see our normal defenders being giving firct crack. But Patto playing back provides a Plan C.

And Hale and Goldstein are not your average key forwards eithers.

Also I understand (though have not really a strong recollection of Patto playing) that Patto is faily mobile.

[Solar]

[I'm not sold on ruckman as defenders,

I did say if required....

So yes I see our normal defenders being giving firct crack. But Patto playing back provides a Plan C.

And Hale and Goldstein are not your average key forwards eithers.

Also I understand (though have not really a strong recollection of Patto playing) that Patto is faily mobile.

I blame not having the reserves anymore but I have no real sense on patto's mobility. Add the lack of training sessions and I'm suprised us supporters have any sense of our reserve players...

but yes it's nice to have those options, will be interesting to see if he is used in the ruck like kosi was. The problem is that macca is out of form currently and provides nothing down forward. Biggest flaw of a very good plan last week to get kosi into the match.

I guess when it comes to rucks as backman I keep getting bad memories of brooks being used as a backman for the first time in his career and being destroyed.....

We really need to be mentally on as the to games agains the roos last year we did not come ready to play and they deserved their win.

[saintsRrising]

I think there are rucks...and rucks....as their mobility and athleticism vary.

Patto is more a KPP in size..and is undersized for ruckman.

Bio: The Tigers received picks 12 and 16 in return for Brad Ottens at the end of 2004, and used pick 16 on Pattison. He had won the Knights' B&F in 2004 and was Coburg's best in 2005. From 2006 he was a regular contributor for Richmond but featured in just eight games this year. A key position player who has spent time in the ruck.

[Solar]

I think there are rucks...and rucks....as their mobility and athleticism vary.

Patto is more a KPP in size..and is undersized for ruckman.

Bio: The Tigers received picks 12 and 16 in return for Brad Ottens at the end of 2004, and used pick 16 on Pattison. He had won the Knights' B&F in 2004 and was Coburg's best in 2005. From 2006 he was a regular contributor for Richmond but featured in just eight games this year. A key position player who has spent time in the ruck.

thanks for that, tall for a KPP, will be good a chance to show what he has