Armoo come on, we need you!

[bergholt]

I didnt say he played well just nothing wrong with his game. I think he is an average player that for some reason has been elevated to star status. He tackles well and kicks poorly. That is his lot.

Ha. Like the bloke he replaced. Only more game time.

cheaper but.

[DWOODROW]

Needs to work harder, run harder.

Clinton Jones has a heart 10 times bigger than Armos. Armo needs to learn from Bill Clinton Jones. Armo will be crucial for us when he lifts the work rate.

he just needs to realise that what he can do is extremely valuable.

yep!

Was Clint a gun from the first go to was he. He hasn't had to work on anything , just came into it a was a top footballer. How many more games does clint have under his belt. Has clint played a season, mmm yes he has. Has Dave. No he has had some games here and there.

While I havn't seen the game in full I have seen some of it. Everyone is quick to point out the negatives and riducule someone but when it is a senior footballer who has played a few seasons they don't get much of a mention or if they do then they should be dropped back to the VFL and give someone else a game who may have or may not have done some good things in a Nab cup game.

Not every footballer has a great day. I'm not making excuses for Dave but FFS, give him a break. This is going to be a long season and if he plays like s*** for the next few rounds then i will be the first to ask for him to go back to the VFL, but to say he is ordinary after the first game of the season is just small minded.

We are after all suppoesed to be supporters are we not.

Plugger66, I actually thought you said something half decent and then when you were called on it you quickly let it be known you think he is just an avergae player.
Don't want to be seen to be giving any encouragement now do we.

[Dr Spaceman]

Needs to work harder, run harder.

Clinton Jones has a heart 10 times bigger than Armos. Armo needs to learn from Bill Clinton Jones. Armo will be crucial for us when he lifts the work rate.

he just needs to realise that what he can do is extremely valuable.

yep!

Was Clint a gun from the first go too was he. He hasn't had to work on anything , just came into it a was a top footballer. How many more games does clint have under his belt. Has clint played a season, mmm yes he has. Has Dave. No he has had some games here and there.

While I havn't seen the game in full I have seen some of it. Everone is quick to point out the negatives and riducule someone but when it is a senior footballer who has played a few seasons they don't get much of a mention or if they do then they should be dropped back to the VFL and give someone else a game who may have or may not have done some good things in a Nab cup game.

Not every footballer has a great day. I'm not making excuses for Dave but FFS, give him a break. This is going to be a long season and if he plays like s*** for the next few rounds then i will be the first to ask for him to go back to the VFL, but to say he is ordinary after the first game of the season is just small minded.

We are after all suppoesed to be supporters are we not.

Plugger66, I actually thought you said something half decent and then when you were called on it you layed into him. Good work Negative Nancy. How is your recruitment of footballers going at the moment.

Exactly. And not just the games in the VFL. CJ came to the Saints as an older recruit with a lot of experience in the WAFL.

A lot of people wanted to write CJ off and those same people are looking just a little bit silly at the mo.

Give Armo a chance FFS. He's barely played 20 games and not many of those have been in succession. He needs to get out there each week and feel like he belongs.

And he's had limited exposure to "Saints Footy", as opposed to "Saints Footy with a twist of Zebra".

[ralphsmith]

Is anyone here not giving Armitage a chance?

Are people just imagining we're all criticsizing him (except plugger 66 lol )? Not sure where this insane defense from nothing is coming from.


I was just hoping he becomes a player similar to Bill Clinton Jones then he will be an incredibly important cog in the team.

Just relax.

[saintsRrising]

Armo has now played 20 games.

Many ex-players and AFL coaches state that it takes about 50-ish games to get to stage where the player is into the swing of things and feels comfortable and is delivering at his best.

Early days yet.....

[saintlee]

Armo's game was okay. He tackled well. His disposal is still a concern IMO. Would like to see him get a bit more of the ball too.

But Sydney are a tough team, Armo struggled a bit against them in the preseason match too.

[fingers]

Armo has now played 20 games.

Many ex-players and AFL coaches state that it takes about 50-ish games to get to stage where the player is into the swing of things and feels comfortable and is delivering at his best.

Early days yet.....

Correct. He will be fine. Needs more games.

Ralphsmith - I don't think the "Bill Clinton Jones" thing is going to catch on so you may want to drop it

[saintlee]

Armo has now played 20 games.

Many ex-players and AFL coaches state that it takes about 50-ish games to get to stage where the player is into the swing of things and feels comfortable and is delivering at his best.

Early days yet.....

Yes agreed. Easy to forget he hasn't played many games in the 1s yet.

[SainterK]

Not sure any of the midfielders enjoy playing Sydney, and many of them found it hard to win the ball.

By laying 8 tackles, it actually makes me optimistic that even on a quiet day he is going to try hard.

[Moods]

He's in his 4th season with us by my calculations. He is NOT a rookie, although ppl would like him to be treated with kitten gloves. Yes I'm getting impatient. THere is a reason he has only played 20 games, and imo it's not b/c of lack of opportunity. He was given every opportunity to secure a spot last year and he couldn't.

I want to see improvement from him. I don't want him to be B.O.G. If this was just one bad game I could live with it. From where I sit he's played one good game, one fair game and 3 poor games since the start of pre-season. I know some players develop quicker than others. The point of my post is that we NEED him. WE are in a premiership phase, not a development phase. We can't afford to carry anyone in the midfield. It's my opinion that his contribution on the weekend was average to poor. I'd like it to be Average to fair.

Comparing him to Ball is ridiculous. Armo's game on the weekend was Ball at his worst last year. I'm not interested in what Ball's doing or did b/c he's no longer with us. Armo and players of his ilk, believe it or not, are the guys who will decide if we win our 2nd flag. Harsh but true.

So yes, we could play Armo for another 2 years and he could become a good player. WE desperately need him now though. He's a first rd draft pick in his 4th year. I'm happy to concede that I'm impatient and I'm quite poss being a touch unfair. The sense of desperation the players showed as a group on Sat night indicates to met that they are fair dinkum. That will only take us so far though. The top end players have very little improvement left. 5 of them were AA last year. It's the bottom 6 players in the team that will take us to a flag. I've liked what I've seen of Geary this year, and Big Ben (Sat night aside) Peake showed improvement as well. It's these guys that will carry us fwd this year.

[saintlee]

He's in his 4th season with us by my calculations. He is NOT a rookie, although ppl would like him to be treated with kitten gloves. Yes I'm getting impatient. THere is a reason he has only played 20 games, and imo it's not b/c of lack of opportunity. He was given every opportunity to secure a spot last year and he couldn't.

I want to see improvement from him. I don't want him to be B.O.G. If this was just one bad game I could live with it. From where I sit he's played one good game, one fair game and 3 poor games since the start of pre-season. I know some players develop quicker than others. The point of my post is that we NEED him. WE are in a premiership phase, not a development phase. We can't afford to carry anyone in the midfield. It's my opinion that his contribution on the weekend was average to poor. I'd like it to be Average to fair.

Comparing him to Ball is ridiculous. Armo's game on the weekend was Ball at his worst last year. I'm not interested in what Ball's doing or did b/c he's no longer with us. Armo and players of his ilk, believe it or not, are the guys who will decide if we win our 2nd flag. Harsh but true.

So yes, we could play Armo for another 2 years and he could become a good player. WE desperately need him now though. He's a first rd draft pick in his 4th year. I'm happy to concede that I'm impatient and I'm quite poss being a touch unfair. The sense of desperation the players showed as a group on Sat night indicates to met that they are fair dinkum. That will only take us so far though. The top end players have very little improvement left. 5 of them were AA last year. It's the bottom 6 players in the team that will take us to a flag. I've liked what I've seen of Geary this year, and Big Ben (Sat night aside) Peake showed improvement as well. It's these guys that will carry us fwd this year.

I think you are being unfair. He really wasn't that bad.

Don't forget Ball has played a lot more games than Armo....he may have been on the list for 4 years, but 20 games is the important stat...thats not a lot at the highest level....

Armo has room to improve no doubt, but he shouldn't be judged too harshly on one game.

[bigcarl]

So yes, we could play Armo for another 2 years and he could become a good player. WE desperately need him now though. He's a first rd draft pick in his 4th year. I'm happy to concede that I'm impatient and I'm quite poss being a touch unfair. The sense of desperation the players showed as a group on Sat night indicates to met that they are fair dinkum. That will only take us so far though. The top end players have very little improvement left. 5 of them were AA last year. It's the bottom 6 players in the team that will take us to a flag. I've liked what I've seen of Geary this year, and Big Ben (Sat night aside) Peake showed improvement as well. It's these guys that will carry us fwd this year.

some fair points. i'm sure he'd realise that if he doesn't deliver others such as steven will be lining up for a crack at it. geary would already be ahead of him on saturday's form.

[saintsRrising]

He was given every opportunity to secure a spot last year and he couldn't.

.

He got in the pre-season last year..and then again in the VFL.

Came into late in the year and played 3 games.

One was BOG and 3 Brownlow votes.

One against the Dons was poor (when most of the team was poor and Ball's stts were similar...)) and his North game was ok.

He then got squeezed out when the club decided to go with Ball for the finals.

So i am not sure hwo he had every opportunity in 2009.

Still he certainly has "every opportunity" now. So time for Armo to stand up and grab it.

But lets not expect the level of a 100 game veteran.

[Moods]

He was given every opportunity to secure a spot last year and he couldn't.

.

He got injured in the pre-season last year..and then again in the VFL.

Came into late in the year and played 3 games.

One was BOG and 3 Brownlow votes.

One against the Dons was poor (when most of the team was poor and Ball's stts were similar...))

Still he certainly has "every opportunity" now. So time for Armo to stand up and grab it.

But lets not expect the level of a 100 game veteran.

He played well against the hawks I agree. His game against North was very average imo. I don't agree with your assessment of him there.

And I am at pains to emphasise that I don't expect his performances to be that of a 100 game veteran, and I don't particularly like the comparisons with Ball either that others have come up with. I don't reckon that's fair.

[plugger66]

Needs to work harder, run harder.

Clinton Jones has a heart 10 times bigger than Armos. Armo needs to learn from Bill Clinton Jones. Armo will be crucial for us when he lifts the work rate.

he just needs to realise that what he can do is extremely valuable.

yep!

Was Clint a gun from the first go to was he. He hasn't had to work on anything , just came into it a was a top footballer. How many more games does clint have under his belt. Has clint played a season, mmm yes he has. Has Dave. No he has had some games here and there.

While I havn't seen the game in full I have seen some of it. Everyone is quick to point out the negatives and riducule someone but when it is a senior footballer who has played a few seasons they don't get much of a mention or if they do then they should be dropped back to the VFL and give someone else a game who may have or may not have done some good things in a Nab cup game.

Not every footballer has a great day. I'm not making excuses for Dave but FFS, give him a break. This is going to be a long season and if he plays like s*** for the next few rounds then i will be the first to ask for him to go back to the VFL, but to say he is ordinary after the first game of the season is just small minded.

We are after all suppoesed to be supporters are we not.

Plugger66, I actually thought you said something half decent and then when you were called on it you quickly let it be known you think he is just an avergae player.
Don't want to be seen to be giving any encouragement now do we.

I am not sure what you having a go at me about. What is wrong with being an average footballer. He may become a star but at the moment he isnt as good as some people are hoping. This topic is on Armo. Should everyting we say be extra positive even if you dont think that. If you only want positive lies then start a topic saying that is what you want.

[derby Street]

I agree Plugger66 honest comments are best. But at the same time why are nearly ALL your comments negative. Some things are simply best left unsaid. Perhaps if we remembered that DA has only played a small number of senior games and we should give him some time to develop in the big league rather expect him to be a star immediately.

[DWOODROW]

I agree Plugger66 honest comments are best. But at the same time why are nearly ALL your comments negative. Some things are simply best left unsaid. Perhaps if we remembered that DA has only played a small number of senior games and we should give him some time to develop in the big league rather expect him to be a star immediately.

My point too.

[rodgerfox]

I agree Plugger66 honest comments are best. But at the same time why are nearly ALL your comments negative. Some things are simply best left unsaid. Perhaps if we remembered that DA has only played a small number of senior games and we should give him some time to develop in the big league rather expect him to be a star immediately.

To be fair, Plugger66 was asked directly to elaborate on his initial response.


This is a forum remember. Not a back slapping chatroom, but a discussion forum.

[Thinline]

He was given every opportunity to secure a spot last year and he couldn't.

.

He got in the pre-season last year..and then again in the VFL.

Came into late in the year and played 3 games.

One was BOG and 3 Brownlow votes.

One against the Dons was poor (when most of the team was poor and Ball's stts were similar...)) and his North game was ok.

He then got squeezed out when the club decided to go with Ball for the finals.

So i am not sure hwo he had every opportunity in 2009.

Still he certainly has "every opportunity" now. So time for Armo to stand up and grab it.

But lets not expect the level of a 100 game veteran.

Spot onski.

[DWOODROW]

I agree Plugger66 honest comments are best. But at the same time why are nearly ALL your comments negative. Some things are simply best left unsaid. Perhaps if we remembered that DA has only played a small number of senior games and we should give him some time to develop in the big league rather expect him to be a star immediately.

To be fair, Plugger66 was asked directly to elaborate on his initial response.


This is a forum remember. Not a back slapping chatroom, but a discussion forum.

Recruiting are you. You and Plugger would probably get on.

While this is a discussion Forum I think I will end this discussion here. While everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is supposed to be a free country, there is always two sides to a story.

As I have said I am not making excuses for Dave whatsoever because i think I am his biggest critic but it does need to be seen that not every footballer has an awesome day every week.

Will he get to the level that Ross Lyon expects him to be at after getting some games and experience into him and playing the style of football that is expected at Saint Kilda??? I hope so, but it is not going to come overnight. Will he get better each game. I think so.

Am I being overly optimistic? Why wouldn't I be, I have seen what he can do and I know he has the heart to put his head over the ball and bleed for the saints. The sooner he knows he has what it takes the better.

I'm not going to continue to argue back and forth over what someones opinion is to mine. Where is it going to get me or anyone for that matter. Everyone has there favourite players or players they foolow closely. The game is forever changing and gets faster,harder and more skilled every week.

I'm happy to have other opinions but wouldn't it be better if it was constructive criticism and I'm not talking about back slapping Roger not many friends fox.

Every player has gone through what Dave is going through now. Not every player was a gun when they started. Not every footballer has a great game every week. There seems to be a lot of summising on the the first game of the year.

I'm hoping there is another post on Dave after about round 10. Surely that would be a better gauge of his work over the pre season.

[Moods]

I agree Plugger66 honest comments are best. But at the same time why are nearly ALL your comments negative. Some things are simply best left unsaid. Perhaps if we remembered that DA has only played a small number of senior games and we should give him some time to develop in the big league rather expect him to be a star immediately.

To be fair, Plugger66 was asked directly to elaborate on his initial response.


This is a forum remember. Not a back slapping chatroom, but a discussion forum.

Recruiting are you. You and Plugger would probably get on.

While this is a discussion Forum I think I will end this discussion here. While everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is supposed to be a free country, there is always two sides to a story.

As I have said I am not making excuses for Dave whatsoever because i think I am his biggest critic but it does need to be seen that not every footballer has an awesome day every week.

Will he get to the level that Ross Lyon expects him to be at after getting some games and experience into him and playing the style of football that is expected at Saint Kilda??? I hope so, but it is not going to come overnight. Will he get better each game. I think so.

Am I being overly optimistic? Why wouldn't I be, I have seen what he can do and I know he has the heart to put his head over the ball and bleed for the saints. The sooner he knows he has what it takes the better.

I'm not going to continue to argue back and forth over what someones opinion is to mine. Where is it going to get me or anyone for that matter. Everyone has there favourite players or players they foolow closely. The game is forever changing and gets faster,harder and more skilled every week.

I'm happy to have other opinions but wouldn't it be better if it was constructive criticism and I'm not talking about back slapping Roger not many friends fox.

Every player has gone through what Dave is going through now. Not every player was a gun when they started. Not every footballer has a great game every week. There seems to be a lot of summising on the the first game of the year.

I'm hoping there is another post on Dave after about round 10. Surely that would be a better gauge of his work over the pre season.

DWOODROW - Whilst you probably know Armo the best out of all of us here, I reckon you should be the last one to comment on him. There is no way in the world you can be objective on this subject. If my brother played AFL I would be the exact same. Very few posts on here have been personal in their criticism of Armo. There will be a lot of summising of every game this year. That's what forum's are. AFL is a bloody tough sport, especially at the highest level.

A close mate of mine had a bit to do with Armo at the scorpions over the last few years. He reckons that he is a top bloke. For mine that is far more important than being a gun footballer. WE all hope that he can be both. My view is that you are talking about him like he's just been recruited. If the subject was about Nicholas Winmar I would say you are right, give the kid a chance to find his feet. But we're not, we're talking about a 4th year player.

There are plenty of ppl whose opinion on here I respect who disagree with me. For the record, what did plugger 66 say that was so offensive to you? Basically said that Armo tries hard but has poor disposal.

I for one would love to see Armo make it, not b/c a mate told me he's a top bloke, but because we desperately need him or Jack Stevens to step up if we're going to be any good this year.

[DWOODROW]

He's played 15 games for frig sake. He is used as a midfielder and where was he going to fit in last year with the talents they had.

[SainterK]

For what it's worth, I have seen enough of Dave to be hugely optimistic. Nobody in a midfield shines against Sydney, not possible. I even said to meher baba the week before the game, that it would be a hard task master to grade a kid on his first game against the Swans.

Not going to see me jump off the Armo bandwagon, the kid is talented, and I look forward to watching him grow.

[DWOODROW]

Of course I am Bias. That's what I'm supposed to do.

I'd rather have the discussion over a few beers while watching the Saints tho.
So to Plugger , Moods, Roger and whoever else may want to have some good dicussion about footy then hopefully later in the year when I come down there we can talk about it a little more respectfully on my behalf. I don't think me having a go at anyone does anything and I'm a bit oversensative regarding Dave. My instinct getting in the way.

Till the beer comes.

[rodgerfox]

Yeah, I actually rate him.

Really rate him.

He's not in the Luke Ball calibre, but not many are. I think the thing that will go against him, is if people compare the two.


The other thing with him is, he is perhaps too aggressive at the man. I've played with guys like this before, and sometimes attacking the man as your first instinct can lead to you holding back slightly and letting them get possession - then attacking ferociously.

Helps the tackle count, and you can become known as a tough aggressive guy - but you've gotta get to the nut first.

He seems to be at contests just a split second late, which could either be due to the above, a lack of zip or even confidence.


The above observation, could even be a coaching thing. I know Sydney played a style similar to what Lyon bought with him, where you'd sit slightly off your man and let them get the nut then tie them up.