Sheahan's top 50

[Beej]

There was a top 50 at the end of last year that had Clinton Jones in it. I'm pretty sure it was another Mike Sheahan top 50.

How does Jones fall out of the top 50 on the back of a pre-season? He must have been terrible on those hill-climbs.

Is that reflective of a player's importance to their club? If so, there's quite a bit of talent there who are apparently less important to their club than Dale Morris is to the Bulldogs. No slight on Dale Morris at all, he can throw that footy onto his boot when under pressure as quickly as anyone.

Mike's top 10 will go something like this I reckon:

Ablett
Riewoldt
Judd
Franklin
Brown
Hodge
Selwood
Scarlett
Cooney
Goodes

[Saintsfan]

Kerr is considered a champion of the game because he is one. From 2003-2007 he was dominant and improved to become one of the best midfielders in the game. That is 5 whole years of supposedly being a front runner. He is nothing of the sort and his gut running and ability to push himself to the brink had him vomiting constantly during games much like Roo.

Personally as much as I like Joey he has had 18 months of quality football. Before then he was hit and miss and drifted in and about of games despite the obvious talent. Kerr has played at a much higher level over the stretch of his career and
There is no point throwing those stats at me because both players played in vastly different teams. Daniel Kerr has been stuck being the only real hard experienced midfielder in a young Eagles team and he has suffered for this. He gets roughed up and thrown around and he has nobody really to assist him. Joey has Dal, Goddard, CJ, Gram, Lenny, Armitage et al around him for support. He doesn't cop the heat often due to quality players being around him.

To reiterate. Joey would struggle much like Kerr has in the Eagles team. Kerr would dominate if he was in our team.

Just because you stated that Kerr is a no go because Cousins and Judd left does not mean its correct. It could not be further from the truth.

So Kerr is "considered a champion" under whos eyes???

Don't go throwing the "champion" tag too freely....

Yes, his best year was in 2007, and I would doubt he will ever reach those figures again...

Those figures were an average of 27 possessions a match with 8 goals and 11 behinds from his 17 matches...

and in his last two seasons he has just played 11 matches a season ...

I just feel that he is his 10th season of AFL and his best is behind him ...

To state that

Kerr will definitely go down as a better player in comparison to Joey.

and Joey has more to come is just amazing imo..

PS I fixed up your spelling error on definitely.....

PPS Kerr has, and will always be OVERRATED!!!

You say I throw around champion too freely and I think you are too quick to write off a machine of a player in Daniel Kerr. You have adopted the typical opinion of writing him off despite being rather incorrect.

Joey in a poor team would look just as impotent and possibly more much like Kerr.

I sense a defensive undertone due to you pointing out my spelling mistake. Kerr has never been overrated. Kerr has always and will continue to be the top target or one of the top targets when opposition coaches sit down and discuss who they should go after when playing the Eagles the next week.

I somehow think that anybody that has any significance would disagree with your quick natured dismissal of Daniel Kerr

[Beej]

I kind of agree regarding Joey.

He's an important player for us but he's not extraordinarily gifted at any one facet of the game.

What makes him a good player is the fact that he does many things well but he probably doesn't have anything in his locker that sets him apart from the rest.

[markinUSA]

I have always bristled at Sheehan's top 50 because even in the years when Harvey won his back to back Brownlows, he would never predict Harvey to be the number 1 player. I know it's only his opinion, that was just an opinion that I really disliked.

[plugger66]

Its an opinion. If we had a top 50 on this board there would be Saints all over the place. If the pies had one there would be heaps of pies players. I love the fact no one rates Sheahan but most read it. Of course IMO he gets some wrong but I am not doing it and neither is anyone on here.

[bigcarl]

1. Gary Ablett (Geelong)


2 . Nick Riewoldt (St Kilda)


3. Lance Franklin (Hawthorn)


4. Chris Judd (Carlton)


5. Jonathan Brown (Brisbane)



6. Joel Selwood (Geelong)


7. Adam Goodes (Sydney)


8. Matthew Scarlett (Geelong)


9. Luke Hodge (Hawthorn)


10. Adam Cooney (Western Bulldogs)

no cj or gilbert.

[vacuous space]

I love the fact no one rates Sheahan but most read it.

I like Sheahan. I'm still going to make fun of Mike for being a hype merchant and a flip-flopper. His top-50 is at least a good talking point. People like lists.

[SainterK]

This is who he may be in for a big year, and WCE weren't that far off making the eight last year. Who knows, Kerr might be in for a big one as a result.

Gilbert not making it is perhaps one of his poorer decisions, I believe he will be AA this year.

However, it's opinion, and he is willing to put it out there.

[gringo]

Mike does his predicted top 50 now and revises it at season end

Thus he thinks CJ will drop off, Joey had a bad NAB campaign and maybe he sees him dropping intensity all season. He obviously sees something in the way Kerr is playing with a revitalised WC midfield that says he might get back to his best. the worst overhype situation is that of C.Judd he hasnt been top 10 since the West coast era. Look at his super coach stats and the way he fails to dominate games like he used to. He's just on the fringes of the top 50 IMO. I would have Murphy and Gibbs in the top 25 way ahead of that twat.

M. Sheehan is a weird old fruit, but he puts himself out there naked every year so we can bag the crap out of him -one of the best bits of footy build up every season.

[stinger]

Mike does his predicted top 50 now and revises it at season end

Thus he thinks CJ will drop off, Joey had a bad NAB campaign and maybe he sees him dropping intensity all season. He obviously sees something in the way Kerr is playing with a revitalised WC midfield that says he might get back to his best. the worst overhype situation is that of C.Judd he hasnt been top 10 since the West coast era. Look at his super coach stats and the way he fails to dominate games like he used to. He's just on the fringes of the top 50 IMO. I would have Murphy and Gibbs in the top 25 way ahead of that twat.

M. Sheehan is a weird old fruit, but he puts himself out there naked every year so we can bag the crap out of him -one of the best bits of footy build up every season.

fair comment....

[BAM! (shhhh)]

the worst overhype situation is that of C.Judd he hasnt been top 10 since the West coast era. Look at his super coach stats and the way he fails to dominate games like he used to. He's just on the fringes of the top 50 IMO. I would have Murphy and Gibbs in the top 25 way ahead of that twat.

.

Wow. Fails to dominate games? Judd's been a dominant presence on a regular basis.

I'm pretty big wraps for Murphy and Gibbs, but honestly expect their midfield to struggle for the first 3 rounds without Judd. The guy may not have the breakaway speed of his West Coast days, but I'm not even truly convinced of that... more that without Cousins, Kerr and Cox to compliment his work, he's basically stepped up and simply taken the whole box and dice of ballwinning to be his own responsibility.

FWIW, his '09 average of 26.5 disposals was 2nd at carlton, avg of 4.4 tackles was first at Carlton, he kicked 12 goals to boot, and if I had them, I'd bet that he led the way in contested ball stats as well.

[iwantmeseats]

LOL at the Kerr love. He is not that good ,seriously. FAR from a "champion". Jeez.

[vacuous space]

...I'd bet that [Judd] led the way in contested ball stats as well.

Led the comp in contested possessions during the H+A. The only guy who averaged more was Ablett, who missed three games. We didn't have anybody close at St Kilda.

Clearly overrated.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Bit of over/under now I've had a chance to have more of a look:

Top 10: I've got no issue with the mix of names. Being semantic about the order on a prediction is tough. Probably bit of an issue with Judd as I'm not sure what more he can do and whether he can do enough to make Carlton enough of a force to call his impact #3 (as opposed to Gablett and Roo, who are tasked with leading their teams to the promised land). My bias would have liked Lenny in the top 10... but as long as he's top 10 in the end-of year, this ones nothing to get worked up over.

11-25: Morris way overrated, the only way he can live up to it is to erase his opponents every week, no dropped matchups. There's no offense in his game...I like the guy, but he's more Jason Blake than he is Sam Fisher. At best he has a Hudghton year (which to me would justify him). Chapman's a bold call with those hammy's. That Dane Swan hasn't been listed by 25 is interesting.(note, if it were me, I'd drive everyone crazy by pushin O'Keefe up a bunch. Central to Sydney's game in 2010)

26-50: If both Swan and Pendlebury are in the 2nd tier of stars for 2010, the Pies aren't going to beat the top sides (regardless of them having 6 in his 25-50 section...). Heath Shaw their best player? Based on this top 50, I don't think Sheehan's got them top 4 (Hawthorn to rebound it appears...). Which brings me to 37; Rioli strongly rumoured OP.

Hall at 45 is a cop-out, he's either a big deal or no deal.

[degruch]

I love the fact no one rates Sheahan but most read it.

I like Sheahan. I'm still going to make fun of Mike for being a hype merchant and a flip-flopper. His top-50 is at least a good talking point. People like lists.

I'm with you VS, except I hardly read anything he writes these days...including this list. Plugger seems to have missed the fact that most of us are reading the forum, not seeking out what dribble Sheahan has written. He is a flip flopper and a hype merchant, and as such, where is the credibility in what he writes?

Yes, people like lists...dot point memos...pictures...big type.

Beej nailed it with his example of CJ dropping off the list entirely...apparently not looking the goods this year...not enough accolades from Mike's peers, no doubt.

[evertonfc]

Kerr is a freak.

I'd love him to play for us.

Have no idea if he'll get back to his best, though.

Still can't figure out how people don't understand the difference between the two lists. His post-season one is merely a review of the season just gone.

He ranked Harvey and Burke =1 in post-season 1997.

[St Fidelius]

Kerr is a freak.

I'd love him to play for us.

Have no idea if he'll get back to his best, though.

Still can't figure out how people don't understand the difference between the two lists. His post-season one is merely a review of the season just gone.

He ranked Harvey and Burke =1 in post-season 1997.

I am well aware of just what his two lists are, and to me having Kerr @ 18, in his pre season list is well over the odds IMO, bearing in mind that this will be Kerr's 10 season and his last two seasons he just played 11 games in each.

Clinton Jones made it @ 49 in Sheman's top 50 in his second list at the end of the season last year and this year's 1st top 50 he is left off...

if anything, one would think he would have moved up in the list instead of being dropped off altogether

GO FIGURE!!!

[evertonfc]

I am well aware of just what his two lists are, and to me having Kerr @ 18, in his pre season list is well over the odds IMO, bearing in mind that this will be Kerr's 10 season and his last two seasons he just played 11 games in each.

I think his pre-season one is also spliced with predictions as much as anything...hence the Kerr rating.

I'm pretty sure his post-season list was far more flattering to our players.

I'm not surprised, nor offended - it's Mike's view and he watches a fair bit of footy, and usually does a good job.

Picking Jones in his post-season top 50 was amazingly brave decision. Wonder if he crack the pre-season list next year?

[Saintsfan]

Kerr is a freak.

I'd love him to play for us.

Have no idea if he'll get back to his best, though.

Still can't figure out how people don't understand the difference between the two lists. His post-season one is merely a review of the season just gone.

He ranked Harvey and Burke =1 in post-season 1997.

I am well aware of just what his two lists are, and to me having Kerr @ 18, in his pre season list is well over the odds IMO, bearing in mind that this will be Kerr's 10 season and his last two seasons he just played 11 games in each.

Clinton Jones made it @ 49 in Sheman's top 50 in his second list at the end of the season last year and this year's 1st top 50 he is left off...

if anything, one would think he would have moved up in the list instead of being dropped off altogether

GO FIGURE!!!

You don't get it and it is not hard to figure out.

The list in the pre-season is about the top 50 players with them being fit and firing coupled with their output. Clinton Jones is nowhere near the top 50 AFL players and i somehow doubt ever will be. He has developed into quite a good tagger though and he should receive the kudos he deserves.

The post-season list is the top 50 players and their input to the season past. Clinton Jones became a premier tagger last year and carried it throughout the season against nearly all comers. He assisted a top club big time with the way he took out an opposition player (most usually a quality one) every week and was able to find a bit of the ball himself

It is not difficult to see the differences between the two lists. However considering you are calling him 'Sheman' i somehow doubt you are going to understand.

[St Fidelius]

I am well aware of just what his two lists are, and to me having Kerr @ 18, in his pre season list is well over the odds IMO, bearing in mind that this will be Kerr's 10 season and his last two seasons he just played 11 games in each.

I think his pre-season one is also spliced with predictions as much as anything...hence the Kerr rating.

I'm pretty sure his post-season list was far more flattering to our players.

I'm not surprised, nor offended - it's Mike's view and he watches a fair bit of footy, and usually does a good job.

Picking Jones in his post-season top 50 was amazingly brave decision. Wonder if he crack the pre-season list next year?

This is where I disagree with you, but each to their own...

I would like to suggest that only losing 2 matches in the home and away season, his post 50 top players is not "far more flattering to our players"

CJ was the AFL's best tagger and still averaged 18.5 possessions a match...

To me for CJ to make Sheman's Top 50 @ 49 was not "a brave decision" IMO...

But again, that's my opinion and you and others have their own...

More so for CJ not to make Sheman's 1st top 50 of this year...

Just what did CJ do from last season to miss out in his 1st top 50 of this year???

[plugger66]

I am well aware of just what his two lists are, and to me having Kerr @ 18, in his pre season list is well over the odds IMO, bearing in mind that this will be Kerr's 10 season and his last two seasons he just played 11 games in each.

I think his pre-season one is also spliced with predictions as much as anything...hence the Kerr rating.

I'm pretty sure his post-season list was far more flattering to our players.

I'm not surprised, nor offended - it's Mike's view and he watches a fair bit of footy, and usually does a good job.

Picking Jones in his post-season top 50 was amazingly brave decision. Wonder if he crack the pre-season list next year?

This is where I disagree with you, but each to their own...

I would like to suggest that only losing 2 matches in the home and away season, his post 50 top players is not "far more flattering to our players"

CJ was the AFL's best tagger and still averaged 18.5 possessions a match...

To me for CJ to make Sheman's Top 50 @ 49 was not "a brave decision" IMO...

But again, that's my opinion and you and others have their own...

More so for CJ not to make Sheman's 1st top 50 of this year...

Just what did CJ do from last season to miss out in his 1st top 50 of this year???

Its not what he did or didnt do. This list is on potential and the other list is on what they achieved at the end of the year.

[Saintsfan]

I am well aware of just what his two lists are, and to me having Kerr @ 18, in his pre season list is well over the odds IMO, bearing in mind that this will be Kerr's 10 season and his last two seasons he just played 11 games in each.

I think his pre-season one is also spliced with predictions as much as anything...hence the Kerr rating.

I'm pretty sure his post-season list was far more flattering to our players.

I'm not surprised, nor offended - it's Mike's view and he watches a fair bit of footy, and usually does a good job.

Picking Jones in his post-season top 50 was amazingly brave decision. Wonder if he crack the pre-season list next year?

This is where I disagree with you, but each to their own...

I would like to suggest that only losing 2 matches in the home and away season, his post 50 top players is not "far more flattering to our players"

CJ was the AFL's best tagger and still averaged 18.5 possessions a match...

To me for CJ to make Sheman's Top 50 @ 49 was not "a brave decision" IMO...

But again, that's my opinion and you and others have their own...

More so for CJ not to make Sheman's 1st top 50 of this year...

Just what did CJ do from last season to miss out in his 1st top 50 of this year???

Its not what he did or didnt do. This list is on potential and the other list is on what they achieved at the end of the year.

Well shiver me timbers. I think you might be correct. But sure, CJ is in the top 50 players in the league somehow

[St Fidelius]

I am well aware of just what his two lists are, and to me having Kerr @ 18, in his pre season list is well over the odds IMO, bearing in mind that this will be Kerr's 10 season and his last two seasons he just played 11 games in each.

I think his pre-season one is also spliced with predictions as much as anything...hence the Kerr rating.

I'm pretty sure his post-season list was far more flattering to our players.

I'm not surprised, nor offended - it's Mike's view and he watches a fair bit of footy, and usually does a good job.

Picking Jones in his post-season top 50 was amazingly brave decision. Wonder if he crack the pre-season list next year?

This is where I disagree with you, but each to their own...

I would like to suggest that only losing 2 matches in the home and away season, his post 50 top players is not "far more flattering to our players"

CJ was the AFL's best tagger and still averaged 18.5 possessions a match...

To me for CJ to make Sheman's Top 50 @ 49 was not "a brave decision" IMO...

But again, that's my opinion and you and others have their own...

More so for CJ not to make Sheman's 1st top 50 of this year...

Just what did CJ do from last season to miss out in his 1st top 50 of this year???

Its not what he did or didnt do. This list is on potential and the other list is on what they achieved at the end of the year.

Well thank you "Captain Obvious"......

So CJ was in the Top 50 last year in Sheman's post 50 top players...

Sheman considered him to be in that position based on his performance during the 2009 season....

Are you with me???

So his basis would or should have been that he was the AFL's top tagger and also averaged 18.5 possessions a match and more often than not silenced his opponents last year...

Again, that's why Sheman listed him @ 49 at season's end...

Are you still with me???

So despite a great season last year and making into his Post Top 50, he does not get a mention at his pre top 50m this year...

Do you understand that??

That was my point, just what did CJ do to get off his list, I would have thought he would have moved up a few places instead of dropping off...

But again, that's my opinion and he and others have theirs.

I was just making an observation from his very last to 50 list.

[Mr Magic]

Sheahan was asked tonight on 3AW how he determined his list, was it based solely on how he thinks they will play this year or is it based on last year's performance.
He responded that it is a mixture of both.
Therefore, performances last season are included.

His response to questions about players he left out
Jobe Watson
Joel Corey
Andrew Mackie
all of whom he specifically mentioned,
was that which player would you leave out to include them?

Nobody raised either Gilbert or Jones whilst I was listening.

[plugger66]

I am well aware of just what his two lists are, and to me having Kerr @ 18, in his pre season list is well over the odds IMO, bearing in mind that this will be Kerr's 10 season and his last two seasons he just played 11 games in each.

I think his pre-season one is also spliced with predictions as much as anything...hence the Kerr rating.

I'm pretty sure his post-season list was far more flattering to our players.

I'm not surprised, nor offended - it's Mike's view and he watches a fair bit of footy, and usually does a good job.

Picking Jones in his post-season top 50 was amazingly brave decision. Wonder if he crack the pre-season list next year?

This is where I disagree with you, but each to their own...

I would like to suggest that only losing 2 matches in the home and away season, his post 50 top players is not "far more flattering to our players"

CJ was the AFL's best tagger and still averaged 18.5 possessions a match...

To me for CJ to make Sheman's Top 50 @ 49 was not "a brave decision" IMO...

But again, that's my opinion and you and others have their own...

More so for CJ not to make Sheman's 1st top 50 of this year...

Just what did CJ do from last season to miss out in his 1st top 50 of this year???

Its not what he did or didnt do. This list is on potential and the other list is on what they achieved at the end of the year.

Well thank you "Captain Obvious"......

So CJ was in the Top 50 last year in Sheman's post 50 top players...

Sheman considered him to be in that position based on his performance during the 2009 season....

Are you with me???

So his basis would or should have been that he was the AFL's top tagger and also averaged 18.5 possessions a match and more often than not silenced his opponents last year...

Again, that's why Sheman listed him @ 49 at season's end...

Are you still with me???

So despite a great season last year and making into his Post Top 50, he does not get a mention at his pre top 50m this year...

Do you understand that??

That was my point, just what did CJ do to get off his list, I would have thought he would have moved up a few places instead of dropping off...

But again, that's my opinion and he and others have theirs.

I was just making an observation from his very last to 50 list.

You just dont get it do you. What has an end of season list got to do with what they can potentially do this year. Do you get it. Lenny was 3 at the end of last season and is now 12 but that is fair enough. CJ was 49 and he may now be 51. Who knows. Why have 2 lists if they are going to be the same. Are you still with me. Do you get it. I can write it more simply for you. How is your English? Can you read?