Lovett lodges notice of grievance with club

[Eastern]

It was reported that Lovett's lawyer, Derek Humphry-Smith was happy that the Grievence Tribunal, and NOT the Court system would be hearing the case. This got me thinking, WHY?

My first and most powerful thought is that it is a combination of timing and risk on the part of Lovett's legal team. Their thinking might have been;

1. The Risk:

The grievence tribunal gives them a much greater chance of winning the case than the civil courts.

2. The Timing

(a) The Grievence Tribunal will be well & truly completed and Lovett would have his settlement money (minus Legal Fees) well before any trial for the rape charges he is facing.

(b) Any civil action against the club would not be completed (possibly not even started) prior to the rape trial. If convicted, I suspect his chances are greatly diminished.

I see this as both sides employing "High Risk Strategies" in a case that could go either way, although I see the club marginally in front at this stage, considering Lovett's team have thus far shyed away from lodging an "Unfair Dismissal" claim !!

[GrumpyOne]

It was reported that Lovett's lawyer, Derek Humphry-Smith was happy that the Grievence Tribunal, and NOT the Court system would be hearing the case. This got me thinking, WHY?

My first and most powerful thought is that it is a combination of timing and risk on the part of Lovett's legal team. Their thinking might have been;

1. The Risk:

The grievence tribunal gives them a much greater chance of winning the case than the civil courts.

2. The Timing

(a) The Grievence Tribunal will be well & truly completed and Lovett would have his settlement money (minus Legal Fees) well before any trial for the rape charges he is facing.

(b) Any civil action against the club would not be completed (possibly not even started) prior to the rape trial. If convicted, I suspect his chances are greatly diminished.

I see this as both sides employing "High Risk Strategies" in a case that could go either way, although I see the club marginally in front at this stage, considering Lovett's team have thus far shyed away from lodging an "Unfair Dismissal" claim !!

Agreed East.

Additionally, the AFLPA is seen to be working within the AFL system.

[Milan Faletic]

shesh
this is gonna get real messy huh (?)

I have to say I'm starting to feel a little nervous about this whole thing now. I still have faith in the club but if they lose this case, it would jolt many people's confidence in the legal department of the club. I hope that is not the case.

[Finna]

As long as the team can get it right on the park who cares.

This needs to be our focus - football and football ONLY.

Once the season starts this will just be a side story that survives because the media have nothing else to report.

Good Riddance to him I say. Whether the law agrees or not the club has done the right thing from a team and performance perspective. To have Lovett hanging around would only cause problems in what matters....The Footy Team.

[mbogo]

Well - its all going swimmingly .....

[Finna]

From what I can see - on field - things are going along swimmingly. No major injuries and sounds like they're all very fit.

If the rumours are true keeping lovett in the club would have been lot more damaging on field that a side show that the players don't give a s*** about.

So many drama queens. Seriously so many saints supporters can't deal with the thougt of succes and are looking for anyhing that can find to sabottage a bloody good thing we've got going right now.

Move on drama queens we have an awesome team that will win a lot of games this year. Try to enjoy......

If you can

[GrumpyOne]

From what I can see - on field - things are going along swimmingly. No major injuries and sounds like they're all very fit.

If the rumours are true keeping lovett in the club would have been lot more damaging on field that a side show that the players don't give a s*** about.

So many drama queens. Seriously so many saints supporters can't deal with the thougt of succes and are looking for anyhing that can find to sabottage a bloody good thing we've got going right now.

Move on drama queens we have an awesome team that will win a lot of games this year. Try to enjoy......

If you can

If you think the club has done the responsible financial and ethical decision re Lovett, go ahead and enjoy it.

Others can see that their actions have a lot of question marks lingering around them.

To call these others "Drama Queens" is absolute piffle.

The club is more than three hours on a weekend..... otherwise we'd be playing in the Ammos League.

[Richter]

From what I can see - on field - things are going along swimmingly. No major injuries and sounds like they're all very fit.

If the rumours are true keeping lovett in the club would have been lot more damaging on field that a side show that the players don't give a s*** about.

So many drama queens. Seriously so many saints supporters can't deal with the thougt of succes and are looking for anyhing that can find to sabottage a bloody good thing we've got going right now.

Move on drama queens we have an awesome team that will win a lot of games this year. Try to enjoy......

If you can

If you think the club has done the responsible financial and ethical decision re Lovett, go ahead and enjoy it.

Others can see that their actions have a lot of question marks lingering around them.

To call these others "Drama Queens" is absolute piffle.

The club is more than three hours on a weekend..... otherwise we'd be playing in the Ammos League.

And some of us can read between the lines....

This is going to get worse when the rape trial starts. I'm guessing that there won't just be two witnesses called..... Inconceivable that Lovett could remain a listed Saint in that situation.

Make no mistake, the club is supporting its players in this. 100%. That's what it is about. When that trial starts we want the headlines to say SACKED Saint Andrew Lovett, not Saints player Andrew Lovett, like they did last Friday when he was in court.

[Dr Spaceman]

So can we, as supporters, take Lovett to the Grievance Tribunal?

I must say that his actions have caused me to be very, very, grieved.

[GrumpyOne]

..... Inconceivable that Lovett could remain a listed Saint in that situation.

Cobblers.

The club can distance itself all it likes.... he was a Saints listed player at the time of the offence.

The club was forced to concede to the moralistic demands of a certain figurehead.

They have played Judge jury and Executioner on Lovett.

Otherwise he would have been sacked prior to Dec24.

[Eastern]

..... Inconceivable that Lovett could remain a listed Saint in that situation.

Cobblers.

The club can distance itself all it likes.... he was a Saints listed player at the time of the offence.

The club was forced to concede to the moralistic demands of a certain figurehead.

They have played Judge jury and Executioner on Lovett.

Otherwise he would have been sacked prior to Dec24.

As it turns out, he was !!

[GrumpyOne]

..... Inconceivable that Lovett could remain a listed Saint in that situation.

Cobblers.

The club can distance itself all it likes.... he was a Saints listed player at the time of the offence.

The club was forced to concede to the moralistic demands of a certain figurehead.

They have played Judge jury and Executioner on Lovett.

Otherwise he would have been sacked prior to Dec24.

As it turns out he was !!

Was he?

[Ghost Like]

If you think the club has done the responsible financial and ethical decision re Lovett, go ahead and enjoy it.

Others can see that their actions have a lot of question marks lingering around them.

I think the club has made the responsible & best financial decision regarding Lovett. Ethical??? What's ethics got to do with this, perhaps that's a question that can also be aimed at Lovett.

As far as St Kilda is concerned, I liken the Lovett fiasco to buying a piece of machinery to help our production. We didn't even get a chance to install that piece of machinery when we started finding faults with it. We have now got rid of that machinery before it causes damage to our product and god forbid effects other perfectly good machines once it's intergrated with them. No ethics involved, just responsible decision making once a problem was identified.

[Eastern]

Indefinate suspension rolled into Contract Termination, so YES. It's the timing and strategy of the official wording that is the only area that is clouded !!

[GrumpyOne]

Indefinate suspension rolled into Contract Termination, so YES. It's the timing and strategy of the official wording that is the only area that is clouded !!

So you believe everything the club has said about this situation East?

Thats good to hear.

Now perhaps I can interest you in a couple of oil wells and a gold mine that I have for sale at the moment.

I also have a couple of Nigerian mates with millions of US$ in storage in foreign countries. They would appreciate hearing from someone like you.

[Mr Magic]

..... Inconceivable that Lovett could remain a listed Saint in that situation.

Cobblers.

The club can distance itself all it likes.... he was a Saints listed player at the time of the offence.

The club was forced to concede to the moralistic demands of a certain figurehead.

They have played Judge jury and Executioner on Lovett.

Otherwise he would have been sacked prior to Dec24.

If he remained 'suspended' (on full pay) his legal team could have delayed his criminal trial for 3 years, meaning
a) StKilda would have had to pay out his complete salary
b) He would have remained on St Kilda's list for the next 3 years.

By sacking him now, they have
a)stopped paying him anymore (about $900,000 less than his 3 year contract)
b) enabled themselves to replace him on their list in year 2.

Yes they may well have to come to some arrangement with him down the track, but by acting this way they have put a stop to the 'haemoriging' of money and removed him from the Club (pr wise there will be no vision of Saint Andrew Lovett training with the Club whilst awaiting his rape trial).

You keep alluding to a 'conspiracy' between a high profile person at the Club and StKilda's action. Do you have proof of that or is it just something you've heard/think happened?

I ahve no doubt that the Club wanted to sack him in the early hours of December24/25 when the last incident took place, but were cautioned not to for fear of being accused of 'jeopardizing' his chances of a fair trial if charges were laid.
Once charges were either laid/dismissed then that accusation of 'jeopardizing' could no longer be levelled at the Club and they chose to act in the way they obviously were going to from the beginning.

I'm having difficulty understanding what it is you wanted the Club to do?

Leave him suspended so that he could remain a Saint right through the trial period?
That could have resulted in them paying him out a million dollars with zero chance of getting any of it back.

AND he wasn't prepared to remain suspended indefinitely. He chose to take the suspension to the Grievance Tribunal.
So therefore that solution would not have worked either.

We can sit here and second-guess the decisions the Club has made, and yet we know next to nothing about the circumstances. The Club knows everything about the circumstances.

The Club (its players) have made it perfectly clear that they didn't want him around anymore.

Not because of his skin colour
Not because of his name
Not because of his reputation
Not because of his priors.

They didn't want him around solely because of his actions after being traded to St Kilda.

Do you honestly think that if Didak had been traded to St Kilda and before even training (let alone playing) found himself in trouble again that the Club would have acted any differently?

These blokes are on their last chances.
They need to be 'cleaner than clean' because of the scrutiny surrounding them and the expectation of them 'stuffing up' again.

Lovett has nobody but himself to blame in this.

[Dr Spaceman]

If you think the club has done the responsible financial and ethical decision re Lovett, go ahead and enjoy it.

Others can see that their actions have a lot of question marks lingering around them.

I think the club has made the responsible & best financial decision regarding Lovett. Ethical??? What's ethics got to do with this, perhaps that's a question that can also be aimed at Lovett.

As far as St Kilda is concerned, I liken the Lovett fiasco to buying a piece of machinery to help our production. We didn't even get a chance to install that piece of machinery when we started finding faults with it. We have now got rid of that machinery before it causes damage to our product and god forbid effects other perfectly good machines once it's intergrated with them. No ethics involved, just responsible decision making once a problem was identified.

Good analogy GL however obviously in this case the machinery was bought second hand and without any warranty

[Eastern]

Indefinate suspension rolled into Contract Termination, so YES. It's the timing and strategy of the official wording that is the only area that is clouded !!

So you believe everything the club has said about this situation East?

Thats good to hear.

They haven't given me any reason NOT TO. Care to enlighten me on why I shouldn't? !!

[GrumpyOne]

If you think the club has done the responsible financial and ethical decision re Lovett, go ahead and enjoy it.

Others can see that their actions have a lot of question marks lingering around them.

I think the club has made the responsible & best financial decision regarding Lovett. Ethical??? What's ethics got to do with this, perhaps that's a question that can also be aimed at Lovett.

As far as St Kilda is concerned, I liken the Lovett fiasco to buying a piece of machinery to help our production. We didn't even get a chance to install that piece of machinery when we started finding faults with it. We have now got rid of that machinery before it causes damage to our product and god forbid effects other perfectly good machines once it's intergrated with them. No ethics involved, just responsible decision making once a problem was identified.

When did we recruit robots as players?

I must have missed that recruiting announcement.

Humans require fairness, equity and ethical treatment. Robots require grease and oil changes.

[GrumpyOne]

Indefinate suspension rolled into Contract Termination, so YES. It's the timing and strategy of the official wording that is the only area that is clouded !!

So you believe everything the club has said about this situation East?

Thats good to hear.

They haven't given me any reason NOT TO. Care to enlighten me on why I shouldn't? !!

My goldmine is just north of Kalgoorlie. Cheap investment at $1M.

I don't believe that you asked that question.

The club is concealing something.... obvious as the face on your nose.

[ralphsmith]

Well that just about wraps it up in my mind. Morally i think the saints have done the right thing.

Lets hope the issue isn't clouded horribly by Lovetts laywers. It's a fairly straightforward case i expect the saints to go unpunished. Player stuffs up badly damaging the reputation of a club and breaches contract. Is fired.

Pretty basic.

[Eastern]

Conspiracy Theory ?????????????????? !!

[GrumpyOne]

If he remained 'suspended' (on full pay) his legal team could have delayed his criminal trial for 3 years, meaning
a) StKilda would have had to pay out his complete salary
b) He would have remained on St Kilda's list for the next 3 years.

By sacking him now, they have
a)stopped paying him anymore (about $900,000 less than his 3 year contract)
b) enabled themselves to replace him on their list in year 2.

That is subject to legal action.

And its no "gimme" either.

[Ghost Like]

If you think the club has done the responsible financial and ethical decision re Lovett, go ahead and enjoy it.

Others can see that their actions have a lot of question marks lingering around them.

I think the club has made the responsible & best financial decision regarding Lovett. Ethical??? What's ethics got to do with this, perhaps that's a question that can also be aimed at Lovett.

As far as St Kilda is concerned, I liken the Lovett fiasco to buying a piece of machinery to help our production. We didn't even get a chance to install that piece of machinery when we started finding faults with it. We have now got rid of that machinery before it causes damage to our product and god forbid effects other perfectly good machines once it's intergrated with them. No ethics involved, just responsible decision making once a problem was identified.

Good analogy GL however obviously in this case the machinery was bought second hand and without any warranty

Too true...Caveat Emptor

[Mr Magic]

If you think the club has done the responsible financial and ethical decision re Lovett, go ahead and enjoy it.

Others can see that their actions have a lot of question marks lingering around them.

I think the club has made the responsible & best financial decision regarding Lovett. Ethical??? What's ethics got to do with this, perhaps that's a question that can also be aimed at Lovett.

As far as St Kilda is concerned, I liken the Lovett fiasco to buying a piece of machinery to help our production. We didn't even get a chance to install that piece of machinery when we started finding faults with it. We have now got rid of that machinery before it causes damage to our product and god forbid effects other perfectly good machines once it's intergrated with them. No ethics involved, just responsible decision making once a problem was identified.

When did we recruit robots as players?

I must have missed that recruiting announcement.

Humans require fairness, equity and ethical treatment. Robots require grease and oil changes.

So what's been unfair, unethical and unequal about Lovett's treatment?

Whta would you do with a player you drafted that
-had a list of prior infractions
-you had sat down and told him what was expected at his new CLub
-was arrested fro being D&D
-haul him in the next day adn give him a final notice.
-haul him in with his manager the following day jsut to reinforce the final
notice
-turned up at the first training session 'unfit' to train
-got enmeshed in a sexual allegation/rape issue at 2 new teammates'
home.

What would you have done with him.

'Now, now Andrew, that behaviour is unacceptable.
You've been a 'naughty boy.
Here's your weekly pay packet of $7000 and promise to be a good boy from now on!'