lane sinks slipper over player being exited out...

[Solar]

Difference is also that there was a different football department, board and players. The AFL has also cracked down on abuse of women hard since then also.

Cheap article IMO

[ace]

i don't see how a rational person can bring the Milne & Monty saga into this.

You can't paint all sexual assualts under the 1 brush

Unless you are a complete and total moron.

As we saw on this site last week.

Of course you can't compare the M&M matter to this.

After all, M&M are white.

And they had the backing of the Saints Franchise Player.

They had the backing of the then coach.

And they corroborated each others evidence.

No similarity really.

So you honestly think colour is an issue?

Race issue is not usually created by those in the incident, but by people who jump and shadows whilst observing from the outside.

Milne and Montagna had been on the list for 3 and 4 years respectively.

They had credits in the bank, were respected members of the team, and went straight to the club's management and coaching staff with the problem they were confronted with, co-operated fully.

Lovett came to the club with several players reportedly unsure of the merits of it, he had several "priors" at Essendon for lack of discipline etc, and was always going to be on a tight leash.

Twice he stuffed up within a month of walking in the door, he also reportedly failed to contact the relevant people at the club, and spat in the face of a football club that gave him a second chance.

It's different not because he is black (and when ever someone's skin colour is different, the race card automatically gets played). It is different because it is different.

Just pointing out some of the differences in the way the two cases were handled HD. Its up to others to draw their own conclusions.

You are relying on information leaked from the club or implied from their official statement in your reply. It would be only natural for the club to back up their position by releasing a few rats under the floorboards. They will after all, probably have to defend their actions in the Supreme Court.

Lovett will have to wait until his court case to give his version of events, in the meantime, the club will continue to blacken (no pun intended) his name at every opportunity.

The captain and the leadership group should come clean on the reasons for their ultimatum to the club, that forced this action.

There is one huge difference between the M and M incident and the AL incident. There may have been an independent witness to the Al incident. No such thing in the other incident and since then one has been charged and the other 2 were never. cannot believe you brought up the colour of their skin. Ridiculous.

There may have been my maiden Aunt Dorothy waving her wooden leg in the air for all we are sure about Plugger.

As for colour, as I replied to HD, I just listed the differences. It is up to each individual to accept or reject any of the differences as being relevant, as you yourself have done.

Racial discrimination is easy to allege but difficult to prove.

Do you, or anyone else who believes AL's colour may have been a factor, really believe if the Saints had've picked up a white player with similar ability; with a similar history on and off the track and who had acted in a similar way since his arrival, that the action taken by the club would have been any different? If you do you are being delusional.

You say you have only mentioned AL's colour as being one of the differences, however the fact you have mentioned it all suggests you believe it was a factor. And in doing so you are casting serious slurs against persons involved at the Club.

AL’s history and actions are to blame; not Black AL’s history and actions!

While the race issue has been raised could I point out that AFL footballers are judged by community standards - whitefellas community standards.

The same standards that sponsors demand and expect at a club.
The same standards that whitefellas are taught by their parents and community.

BUT anyone would have to be blind not to have noticed newspaper and politcal stories asserting that different standards of behaviour exist and are passed on by parents in some aboriginal (oops not the politically correct word, please read indigenous or should that be first nation) communities.

While we may be free to criticise Lovett's alleged behaviour, it is not politically correct to state that he may have come from a community with lower / other / sub standard standards.

There I said it.
You know I am correct but have you got the personal integrity to admit I may be correct.

[joffaboy]

While the race issue has been raised could I point out that AFL footballers are judged by community standards - whitefellas community standards.

So starndards are different because he is not a whitefella?

BUT anyone would have to be blind not to have noticed newspaper and politcal stories asserting that different standards of behaviour exist and are passed on by parents in some aboriginal (oops not the politically correct word, please read indigenous or should that be first nation) communities.

You mean the Aboriganal community of Reservoir in Melbournes suburbs?

While we may be free to criticise Lovett's alleged behaviour it is not politically correct to state that he may have come from a community with lower / other / sub standard standards.

Take out the political - it is just not correct.

There I said it.
You know I am correct but have you got the personal integrity to admit I may be correct.

So you stereotyping a whole race of people lead you to believe you have personal integrity?

Most incredible load of ignorant generalisation racism I have ever had the misfortune to read on these forums.

[ace]

While the race issue has been raised could I point out that AFL footballers are judged by community standards - whitefellas community standards.

So starndards are different because he is not a whitefella?

BUT anyone would have to be blind not to have noticed newspaper and politcal stories asserting that different standards of behaviour exist and are passed on by parents in some aboriginal (oops not the politically correct word, please read indigenous or should that be first nation) communities.

You mean the Aboriganal community of Reservoir in Melbournes suburbs?

While we may be free to criticise Lovett's alleged behaviour it is not politically correct to state that he may have come from a community with lower / other / sub standard standards.

Take out the political - it is just not correct.

There I said it.
You know I am correct but have you got the personal integrity to admit I may be correct.

So you stereotyping a whole race of people lead you to believe you have personal integrity?

Most incredible load of ignorant generalisation racism I have ever had the misfortune to read on these forums.

No, just you don't.
But then the politically correct are just full of sh*#.

[stinger]

There is one huge difference between the M and M incident and the AL incident. There may have been an independent witness to the Al incident. No such thing in the other incident and since then one has been charged and the other 2 were never. cannot believe you brought up the colour of their skin. Ridiculous.

have to agree with you again plugger...gawd..that's twice in two days.......think i will have to lie down....

...the club is backing gram....as i sad before......not lovett ....in this matter....

[saint66au]

Ace, your stance is pretty surprising considering your (IMO) appalling comment about "the stink of Jack Anthony's ex-gf" elsewhere. Even in jest it was tasteless. Happy to make a comment like that but then accuse the community of judging AL by his skin colour??

[Hurricane]

While the race issue has been raised could I point out that AFL footballers are judged by community standards - whitefellas community standards.

The same standards that sponsors demand and expect at a club.
The same standards that whitefellas are taught by their parents and community.

BUT anyone would have to be blind not to have noticed newspaper and politcal stories asserting that different standards of behaviour exist and are passed on by parents in some aboriginal (oops not the politically correct word, please read indigenous or should that be first nation) communities.

While we may be free to criticise Lovett's alleged behaviour, it is not politically correct to state that he may have come from a community with lower / other / sub standard standards.

There I said it.
You know I am correct but have you got the personal integrity to admit I may be correct.

AFL players and indeed every single one of us are judged by the law. sponsors, clubs, supporters and the community are expected to uphold the law and Andrew Lovett allegedly broke the law PERIOD

I am not personally judging Andrew Lovett by the standards of a community or the colour of his skin but by the standards of those laws. The law states that rape is a crime it has nothing to do with the communuity someone grew up in whatsoever.

Regardless of if he was raised in a plush mansion in South Yarra or a cardboard box on the side of the road he is bound by the law of the state of Victoria.

Does being raised in a rural enviorment make you above the law somehow? Does being aboriginal/ethnic/not a white person make someone not understand the expectation that you will uphold the law?

I dont care if Andrew Lovett is purple with green stripes and was raised on the moon he is charged with a crime and an extremly henious one at that.

Andrew Lovett has been an AFL footballer for quite some time and he had to know what he was doing was wrong, he had to know what was expected of him. His situation is not the product of an upbringing or culture or community its the product of something that knows no race, creed or colour: stupidity

BANG BANG

[westy]

Was it my imagination, or was there something going between Samantha Lane and Luke Ball a few years ago when they were often on 'Before the Game' at the same time? Could this be the cause of her jaundiced view of St Kilda?

[SainterK]

Was it my imagination, or was there something going between Samantha Lane and Luke Ball a few years ago when they were often on 'Before the Game' at the same time? Could this be the cause of her jaundiced view of St Kilda?

Nah, that was Nicky Dal

[GrumpyOne]

i don't see how a rational person can bring the Milne & Monty saga into this.

You can't paint all sexual assualts under the 1 brush

Unless you are a complete and total moron.

As we saw on this site last week.

Of course you can't compare the M&M matter to this.

After all, M&M are white.

And they had the backing of the Saints Franchise Player.

They had the backing of the then coach.

And they corroborated each others evidence.

No similarity really.

So you honestly think colour is an issue?

Race issue is not usually created by those in the incident, but by people who jump and shadows whilst observing from the outside.

Milne and Montagna had been on the list for 3 and 4 years respectively.

They had credits in the bank, were respected members of the team, and went straight to the club's management and coaching staff with the problem they were confronted with, co-operated fully.

Lovett came to the club with several players reportedly unsure of the merits of it, he had several "priors" at Essendon for lack of discipline etc, and was always going to be on a tight leash.

Twice he stuffed up within a month of walking in the door, he also reportedly failed to contact the relevant people at the club, and spat in the face of a football club that gave him a second chance.

It's different not because he is black (and when ever someone's skin colour is different, the race card automatically gets played). It is different because it is different.

Just pointing out some of the differences in the way the two cases were handled HD. Its up to others to draw their own conclusions.

You are relying on information leaked from the club or implied from their official statement in your reply. It would be only natural for the club to back up their position by releasing a few rats under the floorboards. They will after all, probably have to defend their actions in the Supreme Court.

Lovett will have to wait until his court case to give his version of events, in the meantime, the club will continue to blacken (no pun intended) his name at every opportunity.

The captain and the leadership group should come clean on the reasons for their ultimatum to the club, that forced this action.

There is one huge difference between the M and M incident and the AL incident. There may have been an independent witness to the Al incident. No such thing in the other incident and since then one has been charged and the other 2 were never. cannot believe you brought up the colour of their skin. Ridiculous.

There may have been my maiden Aunt Dorothy waving her wooden leg in the air for all we are sure about Plugger.

As for colour, as I replied to HD, I just listed the differences. It is up to each individual to accept or reject any of the differences as being relevant, as you yourself have done.

Racial discrimination is easy to allege but difficult to prove.

Do you, or anyone else who believes AL's colour may have been a factor, really believe if the Saints had've picked up a white player with similar ability; with a similar history on and off the track and who had acted in a similar way since his arrival, that the action taken by the club would have been any different? If you do you are being delusional.

You say you have only mentioned AL's colour as being one of the differences, however the fact you have mentioned it all suggests you believe it was a factor. And in doing so you are casting serious slurs against persons involved at the Club.

AL’s history and actions are to blame; not Black AL’s history and actions!

Well Spacey, I believe you cannot discount it as a factor. Less tolerance is given to a blackfella from a suburban community than one from outer Alice Springs. It is assumed that as he lived in suburbia, the problems of being black in a whitefella's world are mitigated somehow. Not True.

The club, and especially the captain and the leadership group of players, must be more forthcoming with information so that all elements of a race issue in the sacking can be discarded.

[stinger]

this is not a race issue ffs....it's all about power.........i once spoke to a rapist after his third such charge in a very short period of time.....kept getting refused bail in the magistrates court but having that overruled in a higher court.....complained to me how unlucky he was...said that normally only one girl in ten complained
to the police....and he had three out of five girls complain......got bail again though...did a runner to nsw where he raped and attempted to strangle a young salvation army girl who tried to help him.......still in long bay i hear...

rape is a serious but prevalent crime in our society..trouble is....most rapist think they can get away with it...whether they be white, black brown, yellow or purple..........

[GrumpyOne]

this is not a race issue ffs....it's all about power.........i once spoke to a rapist after his third such charge in a very short period of time.....kept getting refused bail in the magistrates court but having that overruled in a higher court.....complained to me how unlucky he was...said that normally only one girl in ten complained
to the police....and he had three out of five girls complain......got bail again though...did a runner to nsw where he raped and attempted to strangle a young salvation army girl who tried to help him.......still in long bay i hear...

rape is a serious but prevalent crime in our society..trouble is....most rapist think they can get away with it...whether they be white, black brown, yellow or purple..........

Can't disagree with any of that.

If they are guilty of rape, I would like to see their testicles removed.

I'd go one step further for repeat offenders.

[Moccha]

It seems like it's not a Lovett issue but a St.Kilda vs the world issue. The guy farked up and now the club is being blamed for exiting him based on other indiscretions. Seems like this club can never do any good in the eyes of the media.

[GrumpyOne]

It seems like it's not a Lovett issue but a St.Kilda vs the world issue. The guy farked up and now the club is being blamed for exiting him based on other indiscretions. Seems like this club can never do any good in the eyes of the media.

Sorry Moccha, but no matter how much we might hate him for what he has done, the guy still has rights.

Too many coincidences suggest that the Saints sacked him for being charged.... up to the club to prove otherwise.

[Moccha]

It seems like it's not a Lovett issue but a St.Kilda vs the world issue. The guy farked up and now the club is being blamed for exiting him based on other indiscretions. Seems like this club can never do any good in the eyes of the media.

Sorry Moccha, but no matter how much we might hate him for what he has done, the guy still has rights.

Too many coincidences suggest that the Saints sacked him for being charged.... up to the club to prove otherwise.

Everyone has rights including the greater club. Seems like Lovett brought this on himself. He made the choices.

[GrumpyOne]

It seems like it's not a Lovett issue but a St.Kilda vs the world issue. The guy farked up and now the club is being blamed for exiting him based on other indiscretions. Seems like this club can never do any good in the eyes of the media.

Sorry Moccha, but no matter how much we might hate him for what he has done, the guy still has rights.

Too many coincidences suggest that the Saints sacked him for being charged.... up to the club to prove otherwise.

Everyone has rights including the greater club. Seems like Lovett brought this on himself. He made the choices.

Indeed he did, but it is not correct that we do to him what he allegedly did to this girl.

The tribunal will determine whether or not we have.

A court will decide whether or not he did.

[sainter35]

Hence, wouldn't you wait until the court has made the findings?

Guilty = Sack (must be strong grounds for us not paying out here)
Not guilty = trade/settlement/tribunal/etc?

It could be well over a year before the case is decided in the courts.

You'd keep him on as a paid employee of the St Kilda Football Club for all that time?

[GrumpyOne]

Hence, wouldn't you wait until the court has made the findings?

Guilty = Sack (must be strong grounds for us not paying out here)
Not guilty = trade/settlement/tribunal/etc?

It could be well over a year before the case is decided in the courts.

You'd keep him on as a paid employee of the St Kilda Football Club for all that time?

At least till list lodgement time.

Odds on we will end up paying him that anyway.

There are ways of p1ssing an employee off so they pull the plug themselves at no cost to you.

[plugger66]

Hence, wouldn't you wait until the court has made the findings?

Guilty = Sack (must be strong grounds for us not paying out here)
Not guilty = trade/settlement/tribunal/etc?

It could be well over a year before the case is decided in the courts.

You'd keep him on as a paid employee of the St Kilda Football Club for all that time?

At least till list lodgement time.

Odds on we will end up paying him that anyway.

There are ways of p1ssing an employee off so they pull the plug themselves at no cost to you.

And how would you do that at a footy club?

[GrumpyOne]

Love the selective choice of words in the official statement this morning.

St Kilda Football Club found itself at the AFL Grievance Tribunal last night because of the acts and omissions of Andrew Lovett, which the Club believes gave it no choice but to dismiss Andrew

.

Found itself?

Don't they know the way to the AFL yet?

Dismiss Andrew?

Why do they only use his first name?

Paternalistic power game... naughty little boy stuff.

Has Levin's heavy handprint all over it.

[GrumpyOne]

And how would you do that at a footy club?

Exiled to Sandy would be a good place to start.

[plugger66]

And how would you do that at a footy club?

Exiled to Sandy would be a good place to start.

He still gets paid and still has a contact.

[Eastern]

And how would you do that at a footy club?

Exiled to Sandy would be a good place to start.

Sandy is an entity of its own. They would need to agree to such arrangement !!

[GrumpyOne]

And how would you do that at a footy club?

Exiled to Sandy would be a good place to start.

He still gets paid and still has a contact.

Until he quits in disgust or stuffs up in a way that cannot be related to his criminal charges.

[stinger]

imagine if he stuffs up again big time...or little...won't matter....before he comes to trial.......bet we get the blame for it for cutting him loose