Lyon doesn't have to apologise for anything

[stinger]

i reckon that ross owes me an apology for all the smart arse comments i'mgetting from my mates......the last one...an sms is congratulating me for my club getting such a bargain in lovett......

[joffaboy]

The responsibililty of Lovett's recruitment does fall mainly at Ross Lyon's feet, as does the recruitment of the likes of Gardiner, King, Dawson, Ray, Dempster....and in the future Peake, Smith and company.

Truth is, without this blend of experience it is very likely that the club would not have been in a position to challenge for a premiership.

Over the coming days I hope we begin to look at the recruitments and trades under Lyon as a collective, rather than this unfortunate event in isolation.

+1

[bigred]

Ross Lyon inherited a mess and has been fast tracking the areas of neglect ever since and been doing it amazingly well,

our ruck stocks have never been better,

and for ages we have lacked some genuine pace, with a very slow list that was mismanaged for over five years by the previous coach,

Lovett was a gamble, but you can't blame Lyon for trying to address an achilles heel and inject some genuine run, leg speed and pace into our team,

not too many players when given a second/last chance piss it up against the wall,

only one to blame here is Lovett,

Ross Lyon is the best coach in the AFL and we're very fortunate to have him!

He is right you know....

FFS Barks is right lols.

Fkn if Lovett had of towed the line, pulled his head in and actually kept his sorry arse out of trouble, then Lyon would have filled a pretty big hole in our list.

The club, Ross Lyon, the playing list....no one is to blame for this c**k up except for Andrew Lovett.

Why the hell is everyone looking for someone to blame. Its not Essendons fault...its not St Kilda's fault..Its f****** Andrew Lovett's fault.

[SainterK]

IMO Bigred....

Externally we will cop the flack, because opposition supporters don't need much of a reason to pay out another club. We would likely be judging and surmising had it been someone at another club.

Internally, as far as St Kilda supporters go, I am not so sure and I can't answer that one sorry.

[Gershwin]

So often there is this belief that we can make “bad boysâ€

[bigred]

Michael Gardiner turned out pretty damn well.

It all depends on the individual in question.

[rodgerfox]

My stars.

Lyon rolled the dice on a high risk player - and stuffed up.


If Lyon actually recruited him (and not the List Manager or someone in the magical new modern footy dept.) then absolutely he stuffed up. He took a punt, a very big one, and lost.


How that can be argued is completely beyond me.

The other discards he recruited were woeful when it mattered too. That's the catch with high risk recruiting.

[SainterK]

My stars.

Lyon rolled the dice on a high risk player - and stuffed up.


If Lyon actually recruited him (and not the List Manager or someone in the magical new modern footy dept.) then absolutely he stuffed up. He took a punt, a very big one, and lost.


How that can be argued is completely beyond me.

The other discards he recruited were woeful when it mattered too. That's the catch with high risk recruiting.

I was wondering when you were going to offer your opinion Roger

Answer me this though, honestly in your opinion, would we have made the 2009 grand final without them?

Many players did not have a fantastic GF, and it was more than the 7 recycled recruits, I assume that is what you meant about when 'it mattered' ?

I doubt you will find anyone that will disagree that Ross made an error in judgement.

[Teflon]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

Didnt stop super club Geelong trying to take a risk with Lovett a year earlier?????

Man up shyte happens.

[Moods]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

Didnt stop super club Geelong trying to take a risk with Lovett a year earlier?????

Man up shyte happens.

Question is Teflon - why didn't geelong recruit him? Were they prepared to give up their 1st rounder for him? What were they prepared to pay him?

If it correlates with what we did then you make a good point - otherwise I'm not sure it's the same thing.

[Teflon]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

Didnt stop super club Geelong trying to take a risk with Lovett a year earlier?????

Man up shyte happens.

Question is Teflon - why didn't geelong recruit him? Were they prepared to give up their 1st rounder for him? What were they prepared to pay him?

If it correlates with what we did then you make a good point - otherwise I'm not sure it's the same thing.

The answer to that will never be known unless we know NOW that pick 16 in a weak draft is going on to have a 10 year career?

Point I make goes directly to Geelong being prepared to take a risk on a player that supposedly St Kilda "should have known better" about as some people with hindsight goggles like to constantly allude to.

Geelong - had they been able to manage it - wanted Lovett as part of their organisation......thats a fact.

[stinger]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

Didnt stop super club Geelong trying to take a risk with Lovett a year earlier?????

Man up shyte happens.

didn't go through though did it...girlong wised up in time.....man up ffs

[Teflon]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

Didnt stop super club Geelong trying to take a risk with Lovett a year earlier?????

Man up shyte happens.

didn't go through though did it...girlong wiised up in time.....man up ffss

Wised up huh......did they?...just got "smart allof a sudden".....?

Or did they just not have the cap room???

yep grow some goolies.

[rodgerfox]

My stars.

Lyon rolled the dice on a high risk player - and stuffed up.


If Lyon actually recruited him (and not the List Manager or someone in the magical new modern footy dept.) then absolutely he stuffed up. He took a punt, a very big one, and lost.


How that can be argued is completely beyond me.

The other discards he recruited were woeful when it mattered too. That's the catch with high risk recruiting.

I was wondering when you were going to offer your opinion Roger

Answer me this though, honestly in your opinion, would we have made the 2009 grand final without them?

Many players did not have a fantastic GF, and it was more than the 7 recycled recruits, I assume that is what you meant about when 'it mattered' ?

I doubt you will find anyone that will disagree that Ross made an error in judgement.

Look, people make mistakes. Coaches make mistakes.

This was a mistake.


Is it a hangable offence? No.


He took a punt, and stuffed it.

So be it.


I've never rated Lovett anyway. The biggest jib to pull on an AFL jumper. I honestly (and i've said this since the day he was drafted) don't know how he could possibly get a game under Ross Lyon.

Lyon is clearly a stickler for players doing team things. Lovett doesn't know what a team is.

[saint66au]

Hey Rodg..how many alarms go off in your house every time someone types "Lyon" on a thread title here??

[stinger]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

Didnt stop super club Geelong trying to take a risk with Lovett a year earlier?????

Man up shyte happens.

didn't go through though did it...girlong wiised up in time.....man up ffss

Wised up huh......did they?...just got "smart allof a sudden".....?

Or did they just not have the cap room???

yep grow some goolies.

still play the man i see....not hard to work out that you don't recruit arseholes who bash their missus ffs.....ross should have known better...now he will always cop s*** for doing that.....shame...but hey ...as you said..s*** happens....

[plugger66]

Look someone stuffed up this pre season just as we have got most of it right in the last 2 years. Why is it people think the Saints can do know wrong. lets look at a few facts. We have lost Ball, Pick 16, X and Goose for Will Johnson. Anyone who thinks that is a good pre season needs to get glasses with 2 eyes in it. But that is this year. The previous couple have been good so that is the way it goes in the recruiting business.

[stinger]

Look someone stuffed up this pre season just as we have got most of it right in the last 2 years. Why is it people think the Saints can do know wrong. lets look at a few facts. We have lost Ball, Pick 16, X and Goose for Will Johnson. Anyone who thinks that is a good pre season needs to get glasses with 2 eyes in it. But that is this year. The previous couple have been good so that is the way it goes in the recruiting business.

yep......dumb arse decisions...but hey...it's a footy club...not stacked with rocket scientists.....

[Bernard Shakey]

It happened.
It's over.
Pies this week in the Mickey Mouse cup.
Sydney in round 1 next month.
Bring it on.

[PJ]

I'm confused with what drafting Lovett has to do with Lyon's ego. Surely at 27 he drafted him to fill a set of skills needed, not as development player. I struggle to see how Lyon needs to keep his ego in check over this. WTF

[stinger]

It happened.
It's over.
Pies this week in the Mickey Mouse cup.
Sydney in round 1 next month.
Bring it on.

i agree enough has been said on the subject

[barks4eva]

I honestly (and i've said this since the day he was drafted) don't know how he could possibly get a game under Ross Lyon.

Lyon is clearly a stickler for players doing team things. Lovett doesn't know what a team is.

I think you have a decent point for a change and in this instance, there's always a first time for everything, you've been proven correct!

BUT life is ephemeral and I reckon if anyone was going to pull this guy into line it would have been Ross Lyon,

obviously Lovett is a very loose cannon,

I remember his first/very early interview after joining and he came across as a bit of a loud mouth blowing his own trumpet and big noting himself > ( I cringed )

I remember thinking at the time Lyon will give him the wake up call he needs,

Lyon needed more time with him, Lovett didn't give him that opportunity,

blew not only his own trumpet but his footy career to boot!

[Teflon]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

Didnt stop super club Geelong trying to take a risk with Lovett a year earlier?????

Man up shyte happens.

didn't go through though did it...girlong wiised up in time.....man up ffss

Wised up huh......did they?...just got "smart allof a sudden".....?

Or did they just not have the cap room???

yep grow some goolies.

still play the man i see....not hard to work out that you don't recruit arseholes who bash their missus ffs.....ross should have known better...now he will always cop s*** for doing that.....shame...but hey ...as you said..s*** happens....

Just as he will be lauded for his decision to recruit bad boy Gardiner??

shyte happens.

[White Winmar]

Behavioural science and psychology tell us the best pointer to future behaviour is past and present behaviour. All that glitters is not gold and changing the behaviour of a 27 year old is a difficult thing to do. As with all risky behaviour, in this instance the drafting of Lovett, the persons taking the risk don't believe they will fail. When it comes to long term behavioural change, the road is littered with failures. RL and company's record in recycling, developing and changing players' behaviour has been overwhelmingly good up to this point. As others have pointed out, the person who is to blame in this situation is AL, not the people that recommended, supported and selected him. HE has let everyone down. Only with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight can we now say his recruitment was a mistake.

AL is the exception rather than the rule at the saints. One thing it does show is that the leadership and integrity of the playing list is solid and intact. A good sign I would have thought, and a factor that is far more important in seeking long term success, than the performance of one "speedy" and inconsistent player with behavioural and attitudinal problems. It wasn't that long ago that a thing like this would've torn the saints apart. Not anymore. It looks as though the club is standing as one in this case. From the Board, CEO and Football Department, down to the playing list. I for one, while regretting the suffering caused to all involved, am glad to see the club taking a strong and unified stance. Bring on 2010!

[vacuous space]

Geelong didn't wise up. The Bombers took Lovett off the table. Bomber talked about it On The Couch last year. They asked him about Lovett. He said that Geelong thought they had a deal in place that would send Prismall to Essendon and Lovett to Geelong. The trade fell through. Geelong only wound up with a 3rd for Prismall. He sounded more than a little annoyed about that.