Lyon doesn't have to apologise for anything

[kaos theory]

I've kept out of this debate over the summer, but now that its done, I feel the need to makes some points:

- People who thought they 'knew' lovett was going to do something like this & therefore so shold have lyon are talking BS.

- NO ONE knows the future or how someone is going to react. You take calculated risks on people.

- There are many good people that can do a series of stupid things and make poor decisions, because of certain situations & events unfolding in certain ways through a period in their lives.

- There are also a lot of not so good people that can for a long time not do anything stupid because, again, certain situations & events unfolding in certain ways through a period in their lives.

- The people who gave the saints advice (e.g. Hird) on Lovett before we recuited him are just as shocked & dissapointed with his transgressions. They too feel cheated, since they felt confident he would come good with a change.

- Gardiner was under the same cloud, but has truned out to be a great bargin. Martin Pike had very poor history before he went to the Lions but was a key componet in their flags. So was Barry Hall for the Swans....he truned sour in the end, but they got a flag.

So did Lyon stuff up? Well, he took a risk and it didn't pay off. We lose out a little from this (pick 16 in a weak draft) and some cash....but not everything works out perfectly in life....sometimes you got to try....

[St DAC]

+1.

Risks are called risks for a reason ...

[joffaboy]

So did Lyon stuff up? Well, he took a risk and it didn't pay off. We lose out a little from this (pick 16 in a weak draft) and some cash....but not everything works out perfectly in life....sometimes you got to try....

Of course he stuffed up, everyone does once in a while. lyon isn't perfect, and he has to take responsibility for the stuff up.

However, if he takes responsibility for this stuff up, he must take credit for the good trades since he has been there.

In hindsight (and everyone is perfect in hindsight) it was a pretty poor trading period in losing ball for nothing and then the Lovett shambles. There were some possible highlights in getting another Nick Winmar, Jesse Smith if he gets right, and long term prospect Tommy Walsh.

but yeah, Lyon stuffed this one. So what?

[MC Gusto]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

[yipper]

If he keeps getting us a crack at the flag - I will cut him some slack!!! He took a punt, backfired on him. So, we forget it and move on.

[kos]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

a few years back carlton lost hamill + pick 4 for nothing (livingston)

[Cityboy]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

Sometimes you gamble and win, sometimes you gamble and lose. The upside of getting Lovett was potentially awesome. Unfortunately it didn't turn out that way.
________
Volcano Vaporizer Review

[kaos theory]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

Are you one that is always more concerned with the stumbles than the successes?

Do you think mathews didn't have a strong 'ego'? Call it what you like, but I'd rather have a coach who has courage in his convictions and make a few mistakes on the way, than someone always taking a timid path forward.

[barks4eva]

Ross Lyon inherited a mess and has been fast tracking the areas of neglect ever since and been doing it amazingly well,

our ruck stocks have never been better,

and for ages we have lacked some genuine pace, with a very slow list that was mismanaged for over five years by the previous coach,

Lovett was a gamble, but you can't blame Lyon for trying to address an achilles heel and inject some genuine run, leg speed and pace into our team,

not too many players when given a second/last chance piss it up against the wall,

only one to blame here is Lovett,

Ross Lyon is the best coach in the AFL and we're very fortunate to have him!

[Dr Spaceman]

Ross Lyon is the best coach in the AFL and we're very fortunate to have him!

+1

[StSteven]

Ross Lyon is the best coach in the AFL and we're very fortunate to have him!

+1

Fortunate yes, best not yet.

[stinger]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

[degruch]

The only person who needs to take responsibility and apologies in Andrew Lovett. End of story.

We didn't waste pick 16, we used to pick up a fast goal scoring mid. If he was killed in a car crash, would we still have 'wasted a pick'?

We got rid of Ball and got nothing for it, but kept our pride intact. Would you be as stressed about it if Ball was in the Tigers team that got pummelled on the weekend?

Glass half full. We've got a great list, many thanks to the current management, we'll cover the losses of these two no probs.

[saint66au]

Ross Lyon inherited a mess and has been fast tracking the areas of neglect ever since and been doing it amazingly well,

our ruck stocks have never been better,

and for ages we have lacked some genuine pace, with a very slow list that was mismanaged for over five years by the previous coach,

Lovett was a gamble, but you can't blame Lyon for trying to address an achilles heel and inject some genuine run, leg speed and pace into our team,

not too many players when given a second/last chance piss it up against the wall,

only one to blame here is Lovett,

Ross Lyon is the best coach in the AFL and we're very fortunate to have him!

Heres a game for everyone

See if you can find a post of Barks where he DOESNT mention the previous coach.

I think you made your point about 4 billion posts ago

[kaos theory]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

I can't agree with that, stinger.

Firstly, he may have been at more risk of doing something wrong than your average player, but to say 100 times is pure speculation.

Secondly, this was a weak draft.

Thirdly, you gamble when you pick kids as well. Look at how pick 3 & pick 5 turned out for us in the strongest draft in recent history....

[SainterK]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

Perhaps the taming of ego's began with your first point?

[bozza1980]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

I can't agree with that, stinger.

Firstly, he may have been at more risk of doing something wrong than your average player, but to say 100 times is pure speculation.

Secondly, this was a weak draft.

Thirdly, you gamble when you pick kids as well. Look at how pick 3 & pick 5 turned out for us in the strongest draft in recent history....

That was pick 2 & 5.

Pick 3 in that draft won a brownlow a norm smith and captained his side to a premiership. I'd say pick 3 was pretty good.

[Moods]

THe logic ppl use to justify getting LOvett I find unbelievable. THey deliberately gloss over certain aspects of his recruiting to suit the argument.

For instance comparing Gardiner to Lovett's recruitment is ludicrous. WE got Gardiner for nothing for christ sake and paid him peanuts at the start. LOvett was a first round investment and we were going to pay him 350k a year. How is that comparable to Gardiner in any way other than they both had a bad history?

REcruiting Cousins and using our 1st rounder to get him is more comparable - and I'm pretty sure many on here would have been dead against that idea (me included)

If we had recruited say Andrejas Everitt instead of Lovett and Everitt had found himself in this situation THEN we could say that Lyon had no way of knowing that this was going to happen and the saints were unlucky.

Lyon is a great coach. I am happy to have him as the saints coach. I will not blindly accept this though. THe club needs to accept responsibility and move on. Saying in hindsight it was a bad move lessens the blame. I say that with Lovett's history this specific type of thing could never be forseen, but if not this type of offence then what else would he have done? His actions since arriving at the club (this incident excluded) if the clubs statement is any indication, indicate that the man is a dick and doesn't have the discipline to play AFL. How could THAT be missed when doing their due diligence or whatever the buzz word it is today? I don't hold Lovett's footy ability anywhere near as high as many on here, so perhaps my opinions are somewhat clouded by this factor as well. If we were going to take a risk, I would have preferred they risked it on a player who had an injury cloud but who is a PROVEN star - Shaun Burgoyne.

To blame Ross Lyon alone would be childish - I blame the footy department of which Lyon heads. Someone obviously got some bad advice about this guy.

I feel better now. I still feel extremely confident about this year. I just wish AL would go away and never be associated with our club again.

[lefty]

We'll to be honest, I'm fine with the Luke Ball trade issue.

Collingwood are just idiots, and just showed to everyone not to deal or trust them. I'd rather give them nothing and take a chance rather than get a shitty offer of pick 29 or whatever it was.

With Lovett though, the written was always on the wall from the past with Essendon. Good on field talent, but off-field was always going to be an issue. I would of picked up a young player.

[fingers]

Ross Lyon inherited a mess and has been fast tracking the areas of neglect ever since and been doing it amazingly well,

our ruck stocks have never been better,

and for ages we have lacked some genuine pace, with a very slow list that was mismanaged for over five years by the previous coach,

Lovett was a gamble, but you can't blame Lyon for trying to address an achilles heel and inject some genuine run, leg speed and pace into our team,

not too many players when given a second/last chance piss it up against the wall,

only one to blame here is Lovett,

Ross Lyon is the best coach in the AFL and we're very fortunate to have him!

Agree B4E - Laying this purley at Lyon;'s feet is just wrong. He is just one person in a series of decision makers. He doesn't shy away from the decision. It didn't pay off. So what.

The refuse that is Lovett is now out of our club and once again the Saints have shown that the club is way bigger than the individual. That is a massive step forward from the history of the Saints.

[stinger]

luke ball for nothing?

pick 16 for nothing?

if not lyon then who? i think some ego's need to be tamed...

agree with your comments

...sure...no one knew that this would happen....but the likelihood someone like lovett will stuff up is a 100 times more likely than your normal run of the mill kid(proven prior track record).....that's why you don't take a risk with your first round draft pick on a dropkick like lovett.....imhfo that is....

I can't agree with that, stinger.

Firstly, he may have been at more risk of doing something wrong than your average player, but to say 100 times is pure speculation.

Secondly, this was a weak draft.

Thirdly, you gamble when you pick kids as well. Look at how pick 3 & pick 5 turned out for us in the strongest draft in recent history....

have you had a look at his past "indiscretions"........bashing his girlfriend repeatedly over an hour in a locked car for example.....i reckon that the dons couldn't believe their luck....

[stinger]

THe logic ppl use to justify getting LOvett I find unbelievable. THey deliberately gloss over certain aspects of his recruiting to suit the argument.

For instance comparing Gardiner to Lovett's recruitment is ludicrous. WE got Gardiner for nothing for christ sake and paid him peanuts at the start. LOvett was a first round investment and we were going to pay him 350k a year. How is that comparable to Gardiner in any way other than they both had a bad history?

REcruiting Cousins and using our 1st rounder to get him is more comparable - and I'm pretty sure many on here would have been dead against that idea (me included)

If we had recruited say Andrejas Everitt instead of Lovett and Everitt had found himself in this situation THEN we could say that Lyon had no way of knowing that this was going to happen and the saints were unlucky.

Lyon is a great coach. I am happy to have him as the saints coach. I will not blindly accept this though. THe club needs to accept responsibility and move on. Saying in hindsight it was a bad move lessens the blame. I say that with Lovett's history this specific type of thing could never be forseen, but if not this type of offence then what else would he have done? His actions since arriving at the club (this incident excluded) if the clubs statement is any indication, indicate that the man is a dick and doesn't have the discipline to play AFL. How could THAT be missed when doing their due diligence or whatever the buzz word it is today? I don't hold Lovett's footy ability anywhere near as high as many on here, so perhaps my opinions are somewhat clouded by this factor as well. If we were going to take a risk, I would have preferred they risked it on a player who had an injury cloud but who is a PROVEN star - Shaun Burgoyne.

To blame Ross Lyon alone would be childish - I blame the footy department of which Lyon heads. Someone obviously got some bad advice about this guy.

I feel better now. I still feel extremely confident about this year. I just wish AL would go away and never be associated with our club again.

very good post......now bring on the season....

ps...glad he will be appearing in court as a sacked saints player...not a sants star.....

[degruch]

have you had a look at his past "indiscretions"........bashing his girlfriend repeatedly over an hour in a locked car for example.....i reckon that the dons couldn't believe their luck....

Well, Essendon looked past it.

[SainterK]

The responsibililty of Lovett's recruitment does fall mainly at Ross Lyon's feet, as does the recruitment of the likes of Gardiner, King, Dawson, Ray, Dempster....and in the future Peake, Smith and company.

Truth is, without this blend of experience it is very likely that the club would not have been in a position to challenge for a premiership.

Over the coming days I hope we begin to look at the recruitments and trades under Lyon as a collective, rather than this unfortunate event in isolation.

[joffaboy]

Of course Lyon is responsible for the Lovett trade, so he must be responsible for the consequences.

He is also responsible for all the good trades over the past 3 seasons.

Whats wrong with saying Lyon is responsible? Not for the behaviour of the accused (doesn't deserve to be named), but for the ultimate failure of the trade.

Lyon is not above critisism. However his wins far outweigh his fails.