Ball takes pay cut.

[joffaboy]

That is nearly as realistic as the Harry Potter novels.

you saying they are not true??

[Saints43]

Ball's second interchange breach ( only St kilda player to break this rule and did it twice ), 8 seconds before 3/4 time with St Kilda players in control of the ball and running down the clock,

The football is reversed and Carlton awarded a free kick and goal on the 3/4 time siren.

Lyon absolutely rips into Ball and gives him a fair dinkum massive spray,

up until this time Ball had enjoyed almost the same amount of game time as Lenny Hayes,

So RL stopped giving Ball as much game time because of his interchange technique?

It's lovely the way you slip from imagination:

Ball IMHO probably sulked like a prima donna private schoolboy having been mollycoddled and paid way over the odds at $600,000 a year and treated like royalty and took exception to having the riot act read out to him,

To fact:

Lyon would not have liked the way Ball handled the dressing down

[Saints43]

Did the club do anything like this? Or did the club stick to its "take it or leave it" attitude? If the latter, then what signal was that sending to Ball?

And then along came Eddie with (metaphorically speaking) flowers, chocolates, dinner for two at Romano's, front row seats at the Julio Iglesias concert, etc.

This is why I wish Riewoldt would leave commenting on other players contract negotiations and relationship with the club to those responsible for them.

There will come a time when his knees don't allow him to sprint a half marathon every weekend six months of the year. Someone will sidle up with his last contract and compare him with the man who signed that.

He wants to be sure that he will be able to ignore any calls from another contender who will value him more and sign up again on the clubs terms.

But weren't his comments in direct response from the Collingwood President oops I mean MMM presenter who tried to make out that the contract had been withdrawn and thats why Ball walked?

So our captain cant answer a question with what he sees to be the truth?

Sounds like we have another who wants to tear into our captain. Hope that isn't the case.

oh and BTW Roo signed to past 2012 to avoid the Gold Coast talk.

Roo is a loyal Sainter, the other bloke walked.

I perfer to back my captain over some Collingwood player.

I'm not sure how I've torn into the captain. And please don't get the thread locked for me disagreeing with you...

I stated that I wished 'Riewoldt would leave commenting on other players contract negotiations and relationship with the club to those responsible for them.'

Every player will have a point when he decends form the top of his game. Riewoldt is at the top of his game now but it won't always be the case.

You would then need to read and understand the rest of the post.

If it requires further explanation let me know.

[vacuous space]

But this doesn't have any bearing on the issue of whether Ball was simply lured away for more $$$$ or whether he felt he was pushed out.

I believe the HS reported that we offered Ball $1M over three years. They've also reported that Ball's draft contract was $1M over two years. Even if Ball takes the minimum in his third year, I don't see how Mike is arriving at the conclusion he has. Ball will likely get more at Collingwood than he would have here. If they spread out the money to the third year, then his cap hit is going to be higher than his salary.

I don't think Ball left for money though. Either way, I don't think we're talking about a significant difference in dollars (for him, anyway). If he really wanted money, he would have opened up to the idea of other teams. Melbourne could have given him a small fortune. It's likely he feels he was on his way out and made the decision to preserve his career. Malthouse won't ask him to run as much as Lyon did. Every twist, turn and tackle leads Ball a little bit closer to oblivion. Collingwood will let him be an extractor, we wanted him to be a midfielder.

[Con Gorozidis]

dunno dont care.

but once we knew he was going we should have got something for it.

[meher baba]

Ok,


St kilda v Carlton 12th June 2009

Ball's second interchange breach ( only St kilda player to break this rule and did it twice ), 8 seconds before 3/4 time with St Kilda players in control of the ball and running down the clock,

The football is reversed and Carlton awarded a free kick and goal on the 3/4 time siren.

Lyon absolutely rips into Ball and gives him a fair dinkum massive spray,

up until this time Ball had enjoyed almost the same amount of game time as Lenny Hayes,

this changed

Ball IMHO probably sulked like a prima donna private schoolboy having been mollycoddled and paid way over the odds at $600,000 a year and treated like royalty and took exception to having the riot act read out to him,

Lyon would not have liked the way Ball handled the dressing down,

a contract was offered to Ball about one month later which reflected his worth, $350,000 a year for 3 years,

Ball chose not to sign and teammates like Goddard for example during the season, tried to convince Ball to stay,

it would appear his mind was made up, he didn't like the way Lyon spoke to him,

Lyon didn't like the way Ball responded to criticism,

Ball's gametime suddenly was reduced and he was eventually dropped from the team and he continued to sulk back at Sandringham in the VFL,


previously, McQualter had received a massive spray from Lyon and was even delisted at the end of that particular year,

he is now in the leadership group, through sheer guts and determination to prove that he really does have what it takes,

his career could have ended then and there on the scrap heap, but he dug deep and it's a real credit to him,

as for Ball, he walked

B4E, this is all probably true, as far as I know. But, remember, McQualter didn't really have anywhere else to go other than out of football altogether. So the club was able to give him an enormous boot up the bum, and he responded.

If this is what they were trying to do with Ball, then the whole strategy was undermined by the fact that the Pies were perfectly happy to take him as is.

Also, it would be fair to say that the 2009 model of Ball, while not being worth anything like $600k per annum, was surely an enormously better footballer than the McQualter 2007 model.

[barks4eva]

So our captain cant answer a question with what he sees to be the truth?

Sounds like we have another who wants to tear into our captain. Hope that isn't the case.

oh and BTW Roo signed to past 2012 to avoid the Gold Coast talk.

Roo is a loyal Sainter, the other bloke walked.

I perfer to back my captain over some Collingwood player.

Exactly, how anyone can criticize Riewoldt for putting that dick in is place is beyond me!

Why shouldn't Riewoldt be allowed to speak the truth!

[barks4eva]

So RL stopped giving Ball as much game time because of his interchange technique?

I did not write that, but as always you Thomas flogs are always very slow on the uptake!

[Saints43]

So RL stopped giving Ball as much game time because of his interchange technique?

I did not write that, but as always you Thomas flogs are always very slow on the uptake!

That's right, I wrote "So RL stopped giving Ball as much game time because of his interchange technique? "

This is what you wrote:

Ball's second interchange breach ( only St kilda player to break this rule and did it twice ), 8 seconds before 3/4 time with St Kilda players in control of the ball and running down the clock,

The football is reversed and Carlton awarded a free kick and goal on the 3/4 time siren.

Lyon absolutely rips into Ball and gives him a fair dinkum massive spray,

up until this time Ball had enjoyed almost the same amount of game time as Lenny Hayes,

[Mr Magic]

I was wrong.
Mike Sheahan was 100% correct.
I've just heard Jon Ralph on SEN explain why Ball is on less at Collingwood than at St Kilda, as Sheahan declared in his article.

According to Ralph:-
Ball is on 500k pa at Collingwood this year.
Last year he was on 600k pa from St Kilda.
THERFORE HE HAS GONE TO COLLINGWOOD FOR LESS MONEY.

I have nothing else coherent to say on this.
I cannot compete against that type of logic.

I therefore unashamedly apologise to all those who have accepted Sheahan's article. What I thought was blind faith on their behalf (or blind opposition to anything Lyon did) was in fact a perceptive understanding of the way these journalists' minds work. Something I am incapable of.

[InkerSaint]

- I still think we should have got something for him. That's the bigger issue at play.

We did get something for him. We forced Collingwood to use their only draft pick before the back end of round 4, instead of giving them a cherry. What would we have done with pick 25? Possibly the same thing we did with pick 32.

Maybe it cost us strategically to get nothing from him. But by the same token it cost Collingwood strategically to pick him up. And I wonder how Sharrod Wellingham is feeling still in the black and white.

[Saints43]

Exactly, how anyone can criticize Riewoldt for putting that dick in is place is beyond me!

And you might want to update the settings on your spell checker.

Made the same mistake in your deperate post where you used the word "circumsized".

Here to help,
IQ43

[SainterK]

Jon Ralph just confirmed that Ball is getting the 1 million over 2 years, and it's the fact that the salary for the 3 year is unknown that allows Mike to technically call it less....given he was on 600K and then offered 1million plus over three years at the Saints.

I personally bristle at the inference by Mike that Saints supporters are having the wool pulled over our eyes to take our focus of the Lovett issue. We are not so ignorant or stupid, so do not blur the lines by combining two seperate issues.

I am actually really surprised that someone in this thread also believes it to be the case, I honestly don't think Ross and Roo have conspired to anything of the sort.

The facts are is that it continually was being reported that we "let Luke go" etc, I am glad that it's been clarified.

[vacuous space]

According to Ralph:-
Ball is on 500k pa at Collingwood this year.
Last year he was on 600k pa from St Kilda.
THERFORE HE HAS GONE TO COLLINGWOOD FOR LESS MONEY.

If Mike had phrased things differently, that might make sense.

As it happens, he will play for Collingwood for less than he was offered by St Kilda.

You could say he'll be playing for Collingwood on less money than he was offered in 2006, but that's drawing a very long bow.

[joffaboy]

I was wrong.
Mike Sheahan was 100% correct.
I've just heard Jon Ralph on SEN explain why Ball is on less at Collingwood than at St Kilda, as Sheahan declared in his article.

According to Ralph:-
Ball is on 500k pa at Collingwood this year.
Last year he was on 600k pa from St Kilda.
THERFORE HE HAS GONE TO COLLINGWOOD FOR LESS MONEY.

I have nothing else coherent to say on this.
I cannot compete against that type of logic.

I therefore unashamedly apologise to all those who have accepted Sheahan's article. What I thought was blind faith on their behalf (or blind opposition to anything Lyon did) was in fact a perceptive understanding of the way these journalists' minds work. Something I am incapable of.

Did he really say that?

Is that really Sheahans defence?

OH

MY

GOD

[SydneySainter]

Don't know anymore, don't care anymore. Ball, while being an honest player has been over-rated for the last four years and I feel that all this debate and attention could be focused on a much better player.

If it came down to losing Ball or Hayes, I would have chosen Ball in a heart beat. As far as I'm concerned, the club had two choices, lose him for absolutely nothing or close to nothing. We took the option of absolutely nothing but no matter what we chose, Collingwood would have still been perceived as the big winners, in the short term anyway!

The Collingwood club and supporters alike can put Ball up on this massive pedestal, call him 'Mr. Perfect', talk like the sun shines out of him and refer to him as a superstar who was f**ked over by an ogre named Lyon till the cows come home, doesn't change the fact that if they're immediately expecting miracles from him, they have rocks in their heads.

If the club is supposed to feel guilty for dropping him back to the VFL, playing him for shortened intervals and not promising him everything to keep him, then football is officially the biggest mediocrity going around.

[meher baba]

According to Ralph:-
Ball is on 500k pa at Collingwood this year.
Last year he was on 600k pa from St Kilda.
THERFORE HE HAS GONE TO COLLINGWOOD FOR LESS MONEY.

If Mike had phrased things differently, that might make sense.

As it happens, he will play for Collingwood for less than he was offered by St Kilda.

You could say he'll be playing for Collingwood on less money than he was offered in 2006, but that's drawing a very long bow.

Absolutely, Sheahan should hang his head in shame if that was the basis for his article.

[Con Gorozidis]

- I still think we should have got something for him. That's the bigger issue at play.

We did get something for him. We forced Collingwood to use their only draft pick before the back end of round 4, instead of giving them a cherry. What would we have done with pick 25? Possibly the same thing we did with pick 32.

Maybe it cost us strategically to get nothing from him. But by the same token it cost Collingwood strategically to pick him up. And I wonder how Sharrod Wellingham is feeling still in the black and white.

umm. what?
for 32 we got nick winmar. if we had 25 wed have 2 guys of this quality.

collingwood used 30 and got a player called luke ball.

luke ball - for 25 or
luke ball for nothing

that is the equation. by taking that we would "forced" collingwood into using 25 under ur logic.

man this is convoluted

once we knew he was 100% going we should have taken the highest offer and closed the book on him. no fuss. no emotion. goobye luck - hello kid.

[plugger66]

According to Ralph:-
Ball is on 500k pa at Collingwood this year.
Last year he was on 600k pa from St Kilda.
THERFORE HE HAS GONE TO COLLINGWOOD FOR LESS MONEY.

If Mike had phrased things differently, that might make sense.

As it happens, he will play for Collingwood for less than he was offered by St Kilda.

You could say he'll be playing for Collingwood on less money than he was offered in 2006, but that's drawing a very long bow.

Absolutely, Sheahan should hang his head in shame if that was the basis for his article.

I must have missed the radio where Sheahan actually said that is what was meant in the article. At the moment all I have heard is Ralphy saying it.

[SainterK]

i dont give a flying flog about luke ball leaving. his contract situation or what hes being paid at the pies. they can have him.

but once we 100% knew he was going we should have got something for it and moved on quick smart.

and blowing pick 17 aint speculation. its cold hard fact.

When did we know 100% he was leaving, all the reports at the time were that he was going to reconcile with the club after a suitable trade was not reached.

It wasn't until he sent the SMS to Ross after trade week to say he wasn't staying, that it was then 100% fact.

[barks4eva]

So RL stopped giving Ball as much game time because of his interchange technique?

I did not write that, but as always you Thomas flogs are always very slow on the uptake!

That's right, I wrote "So RL stopped giving Ball as much game time because of his interchange technique? "

This is what you wrote:

Ball's second interchange breach ( only St kilda player to break this rule and did it twice ), 8 seconds before 3/4 time with St Kilda players in control of the ball and running down the clock,

The football is reversed and Carlton awarded a free kick and goal on the 3/4 time siren.

Lyon absolutely rips into Ball and gives him a fair dinkum massive spray,

up until this time Ball had enjoyed almost the same amount of game time as Lenny Hayes,

WHERE did I write what you're insinuating, that's NOT what I wrote!

Are you really that thick?

[plugger66]

i dont give a flying flog about luke ball leaving. his contract situation or what hes being paid at the pies. they can have him.

but once we 100% knew he was going we should have got something for it and moved on quick smart.

and blowing pick 17 aint speculation. its cold hard fact.

When did we know 100% he was leaving, all the reports at the time were that he was going to reconcile with the club after a suitable trade was not reached.

It wasn't until he sent the SMS to Ross after trade week to say he wasn't staying, that it was then 100% fact.

What are you talking about. He was going 100% if we traded him to the Pies.

[Mr Magic]

I was wrong.
Mike Sheahan was 100% correct.
I've just heard Jon Ralph on SEN explain why Ball is on less at Collingwood than at St Kilda, as Sheahan declared in his article.

According to Ralph:-
Ball is on 500k pa at Collingwood this year.
Last year he was on 600k pa from St Kilda.
THERFORE HE HAS GONE TO COLLINGWOOD FOR LESS MONEY.

I have nothing else coherent to say on this.
I cannot compete against that type of logic.

I therefore unashamedly apologise to all those who have accepted Sheahan's article. What I thought was blind faith on their behalf (or blind opposition to anything Lyon did) was in fact a perceptive understanding of the way these journalists' minds work. Something I am incapable of.

Did he really say that?

Is that really Sheahans defence?

OH

MY

GOD

My oath.
I nearly drove off the road as I was listening.

I don't know if it is Sheahan's defense or not.
It was Ralph's justification of Sheahan's claim.

So there you are joffa - you and I (and some others) who happen to believe our Coach, CEO, Captain and anybody else who's made public comments on this are obviously wrong.

We're so obviously mesmerized by our Club leaders that we don't know when we're being sold BS.

We should know to always believe
Eddie MacGuire
Micky Malthouse
Mke Sheahan
Jon Ralph
Dorothy the Dinosaur
Humphrey B Bear
and anybody else as long as they're not from St Kilda F.C.

because they always tell the truth, the whole thruth and nothing but the truth

whereas our Club leaders are always telling porkies, half-truths, spinning BS because as Saints supporters they feel

'we can't handle the truth'

[Saints43]

"So RL stopped giving Ball as much game time because of his interchange technique? "

is a question in summary of:

Ball's second interchange breach ( only St kilda player to break this rule and did it twice ), 8 seconds before 3/4 time with St Kilda players in control of the ball and running down the clock,

The football is reversed and Carlton awarded a free kick and goal on the 3/4 time siren.

Lyon absolutely rips into Ball and gives him a fair dinkum massive spray,

up until this time Ball had enjoyed almost the same amount of game time as Lenny Hayes,

[Sainter_Dad]

Ball is looking VERY good this pre-season - makes you wonder whether his heart was ever in playing for St Kilda. I have never seen him this ripped or ready to play. Seems that the change has been good for Ball - lets hope its better for St Kilda