Lovett lodges notice of grievance with club

[dals_da_bomb]

does mistaken identity mean - went in to the wrong room and _______________ wrong person?
Im trying to be very careful. I dont want to offend anyone.

wasnt aware that the Lovett was strongly denying, i hadnt thought he had said anything on the topic as yet, or was that a " i heard that he..."

[meher baba]

does mistaken identity mean - went in to the wrong room and _______________ wrong person?

Would still constitute rape by anyone's standards.

[dals_da_bomb]

yes of course. Not questioning that, without having to scroll back all the pages, it was mentioned that Lovett is saying something along the lines of 'role reversal and mistaken identity'.
it seemed there was confussion as what that could mean.

[St. Luke]

Not to mention his supposedly already rocky relationship (as has been reported at various times) with the playing group.

That's been reported on here, but not by anyone officially...sounds like a convenient rumour made up Saintsational posters to validate an argument to me. They were all out on the town that night, so doesn't sound too rocky to me either.

Okay, I wasn't sure where I heard it, but knew I'd heard it somewhere.

Nothing I'd like better than to see this blow over (not at the expense of someone getting away with a criminal offense, but hopefully it "miraculously" turns out to be fraudulent). Talk about grasping for straws

[degruch]

Not to mention his supposedly already rocky relationship (as has been reported at various times) with the playing group.

That's been reported on here, but not by anyone officially...sounds like a convenient rumour made up Saintsational posters to validate an argument to me. They were all out on the town that night, so doesn't sound too rocky to me either.

Okay, I wasn't sure where I heard it, but knew I'd heard it somewhere.

Nothing I'd like better than to see this blow over (not at the expense of someone getting away with a criminal offense, but hopefully it "miraculously" turns out to be fraudulent). Talk about grasping for straws

Me too mate, but it's not looking good. Who knows...clubs are pretty good at playing their cards close to their chest, as there's a lot at stake, so I'm not expecting the final decision to miraculously pop up on a fan forum. Unfortunately, we'll just have to sit and wait. So should AL IMO.

[saintspremiers]

Yeah, yeah, suspended.

But it's sounding more like an impending dismissal isn't it? Lovett, guilty or not has been severely tarnished. Does anyone believe that if he isn't charged (however long that may take) that the relationship between the club and Lovett hasn’t been irreparably damaged? Not to mention his supposedly already rocky relationship (as has been reported at various times) with the playing group.

It's bleedingly obvious the club want him sacked....isn't it?

Just going through the hoops to make it happen.

Memo St Kilda players:

Win the flag and all will be cool!

[stinger]

Yeah, yeah, suspended.

But it's sounding more like an impending dismissal isn't it? Lovett, guilty or not has been severely tarnished. Does anyone believe that if he isn't charged (however long that may take) that the relationship between the club and Lovett hasn’t been irreparably damaged? Not to mention his supposedly already rocky relationship (as has been reported at various times) with the playing group.

It's bleedingly obvious the club want him sacked....isn't it?

Just going through the hoops to make it happen.

Memo St Kilda players:

Win the flag and all will be cool!

i could live with that.....

[Teflon]

All along I've been quietly hoping that there might be some way that this could work out so that he could end up playing and the club could get some of the value it hoped to get when they gave up pick 16 for him. I always believed that, football wise, he could be a useful contributor to the team.

This morning I read some hearsay on bf: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthrea ... 77&page=28 that really makes me think that I had my rose coloured glasses on all the time

My mates were down at phillip island two weekends ago. Guess who they saw? At the local pub off their face the one and only Andrew Lovett. Apparently he was ordering drinks from the bar without queuing up etc. Had girls hanging off him and was barely able to stand by the end of the night from all reports. The bloke is a headcase

Allegedly.

I too have been dreaming up ways where perhaps this could be resolved to a point where he plays...purely selfish ofcourse cause I too reckon Lovett wouldve been an electric hanfull for opposition sides with Hayes and Co delivering the pill to him......fffrrrkk~!!

Now Im aware we shall never know...this is BF so take it with a grain.....but u cant help but feel the guys lost the plot completely.

[ace]

What a bloody farce.

It'll be an even bigger farce if no charges are laid or if they are, he's eventually found not guilty.

It will be a huge issue if no charges are laid but if they are and he is found not guilty I dont think that will be as big an issue. Firstly a payout will have be settled upon by then you would think and secondly not guilty doesnt actually mean innocent.

Er No Plugger, under Australia's system of justice everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
If you are not charged you remain innocent
If you are charged and found not guilty, you are innocent.

Innocent doesn't mean you didn't do it, it means they can't or didn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Lovett has been banned from training and playing with the club despite him being innocent (at least for the time being).

The problem for the club is they can't claim he did something wrong unless they also can prove it and if the can prove it they can't reveal it ahead of a potential court case.

At this point in time all that has happened is a woman has claimed but so far has not proven that he did something seriously wrong.
Until it is proven he has not breached anything under his contract that justifies his suspension.
A player can not be expected to control false allegations by others and all allegations are false until proven in a court of law.

The AFLPA is backing him to ensure that he and other players are not punished unfairly by clubs.
Lovett obviously claims to be innocent.
If Lovett remains innocent he will have been punished unfairly.

PS he may be a d**khead but that is not an offence in law or a breach of the standard AFL contract.

[skeptic]

the only positive i can see see from this is that Lovett is at least fighting for his career.

the guy clearly wants to play footy.

[plugger66]

What a bloody farce.

It'll be an even bigger farce if no charges are laid or if they are, he's eventually found not guilty.

It will be a huge issue if no charges are laid but if they are and he is found not guilty I dont think that will be as big an issue. Firstly a payout will have be settled upon by then you would think and secondly not guilty doesnt actually mean innocent.

Er No Plugger, under Australia's system of justice everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
If you are not charged you remain innocent
If you are charged and found not guilty, you are innocent.

Innocent doesn't mean you didn't do it, it means they can't or didn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Lovett has been banned from training and playing with the club despite him being innocent (at least for the time being).

The problem for the club is they can't claim he did something wrong unless they also can prove it and if the can prove it they can't reveal it ahead of a potential court case.

At this point in time all that has happened is a woman has claimed but so far has not proven that he did something seriously wrong.
Until it is proven he has not breached anything under his contract that justifies his suspension.
A player can not be expected to control false allegations by others and all allegations are false until proven in a court of law.

The AFLPA is backing him to ensure that he and other players are not punished unfairly by clubs.
Lovett obviously claims to be innocent.
If Lovett remains innocent he will have been punished unfairly.

PS he may be a d**khead but that is not an offence in law or a breach of the standard AFL contract.

I am pretty sure that the AFL isnt a court of law other wise Ben Cousins would have sued them. Should Stokes be allowed to play as he is innocent until proven guilty. No of course not. If OJ was a Saints players should he be allowed to play because he was found not guilty. No of course not.

The AFL doesnt need the same rules as criminal courts just as cival courts have different rules.

[rodgerfox]

Not to mention his supposedly already rocky relationship (as has been reported at various times) with the playing group.

That's been reported on here, but not by anyone officially...sounds like a convenient rumour made up Saintsational posters to validate an argument to me. They were all out on the town that night, so doesn't sound too rocky to me either.

Okay, I wasn't sure where I heard it, but knew I'd heard it somewhere.

Nothing I'd like better than to see this blow over (not at the expense of someone getting away with a criminal offense, but hopefully it "miraculously" turns out to be fraudulent). Talk about grasping for straws

It's been insinuated in the press.

[stinger]

I too have been dreaming up ways where perhaps this could be resolved to a point where he plays...purely selfish ofcourse cause I too reckon Lovett wouldve been an electric hanfull for opposition sides with Hayes and Co delivering the pill to him......fffrrrkk~!!

yep...would be nice....

[stinger]

[quote="ace"]

Er No Plugger, under Australia's system of justice everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
If you are not charged you remain innocent
If you are charged and found not guilty, you are innocent.

Innocent doesn't mean you didn't do it, it means they can't or didn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Lovett has been banned from training and playing with the club despite him being innocent (at least for the time being).

The problem for the club is they can't claim he did something wrong unless they also can prove it and if the can prove it they can't reveal it ahead of a potential court case.




rhe scots have it right...there a jury can deliver a verdict of not proven.....

[Fidelis]

The Age tody reports that StKlda's refusal to lift his indefinie suspension has escalated Lovett's grievance with the club and it is now in the hands of his lawyers.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/l ... -ndhj.html


It also confirms that Lovett:

- Is receiving twice-weekly one-on-one skills tuition with St Kilda development coach Danny Sexton.

- Is completing a weekly time-trial around Princes Park at the club's insistence.

- Has been bought a gym membership by St Kilda.

- Has had no contact with senior coach Ross Lyon since Christmas.

- is receiving his full base pay.

Might be moving quickly towards crunch time ....

[Thinline]

Not to mention his supposedly already rocky relationship (as has been reported at various times) with the playing group.

That's been reported on here, but not by anyone officially...sounds like a convenient rumour made up Saintsational posters to validate an argument to me. They were all out on the town that night, so doesn't sound too rocky to me either.

Okay, I wasn't sure where I heard it, but knew I'd heard it somewhere.

Nothing I'd like better than to see this blow over (not at the expense of someone getting away with a criminal offense, but hopefully it "miraculously" turns out to be fraudulent). Talk about grasping for straws

It's been insinuated in the press.

Goes back to that onfield slanging match a few years back when Lovett had been involved in a domestic dispute and Riewoldt and I think Montagna had a bit of go at him and a microphone picked it up?

Something to do with that?

[stinger]

The Age tody reports that StKlda's refusal to lift his indefinie suspension has escalated Lovett's grievance with the club and it is now in the hands of his lawyers.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/l ... -ndhj.html


It also confirms that Lovett:

- Is receiving twice-weekly one-on-one skills tuition with St Kilda development coach Danny Sexton.

- Is completing a weekly time-trial around Princes Park at the club's insistence.

- Has been bought a gym membership by St Kilda.

- Has had no contact with senior coach Ross Lyon since Christmas.

- is receiving his full base pay.

Might be moving quickly towards crunch time ....

interesting article....clears up some of the issues being discussed here.....

...suprised that ross hasn't been in touch...he must be really pissed off with him...not that i blame him....

[matrix]

thanks for the link Fidelis

i was under the impression the club was giving him nothing (traniing wise) so that clears that up

[TwoTowers]

Andrew Lovett has every right to be training with the club. He has not been charged with an offence and it is looking increasingly likely that he will not be. Was there ever anything in it? Ignore the pitiful rumours that have been spread around on this forum. Lovett wants to be vindicated and wants to play footy with the Saints. Prove I'm wrong.

[TwoTowers]

I am pretty sure that the AFL isnt a court of law other wise Ben Cousins would have sued them. Should Stokes be allowed to play as he is innocent until proven guilty. No of course not. If OJ was a Saints players should he be allowed to play because he was found not guilty. No of course not.

The AFL doesnt need the same rules as criminal courts just as cival courts have different rules.

Its entirely up to the club and nothing says that a player who has allegedly committed a crime cannot play for their club until the allegation is proven. The cats and saints can afford to play hard ball as they figure the example that is set counters the unfairness of such an action. On the other hand, take the Tigers and Troy Taylor. Charged with a serious assault yet still training with the club.

[saintlee]

Andrew Lovett has every right to be training with the club. He has not been charged with an offence and it is looking increasingly likely that he will not be. Was there ever anything in it? Ignore the pitiful rumours that have been spread around on this forum. Lovett wants to be vindicated and wants to play footy with the Saints. Prove I'm wrong.

Not if the coach and leadership group don't want him there, which they don't.

Not if he is suspended by the club for alleged rape.

Think its pretty clear that he has no right to train with the club at this time.

That may change if the allegation is dropped. But I think he has already blown his chance with the Saints.

[S.A Saint]

Andrew Lovett has every right to be training with the club. He has not been charged with an offence and it is looking increasingly likely that he will not be. Was there ever anything in it? Ignore the pitiful rumours that have been spread around on this forum. Lovett wants to be vindicated and wants to play footy with the Saints. Prove I'm wrong.

Not if the coach and leadership group don't want him there, which they don't.

Not if he is suspended by the club for alleged rape.

Think its pretty clear that he has no right to train with the club at this time.

That may change if the allegation is dropped. But I think he has already blown his chance with the Saints.

its interesting thou that he is receiving weekly training and is completing weekly time trials....make of that what you want, but i think that there is still a good chance that if all the charges are dropped that he will play for us...

[saintlee]

Andrew Lovett has every right to be training with the club. He has not been charged with an offence and it is looking increasingly likely that he will not be. Was there ever anything in it? Ignore the pitiful rumours that have been spread around on this forum. Lovett wants to be vindicated and wants to play footy with the Saints. Prove I'm wrong.

Not if the coach and leadership group don't want him there, which they don't.

Not if he is suspended by the club for alleged rape.

Think its pretty clear that he has no right to train with the club at this time.

That may change if the allegation is dropped. But I think he has already blown his chance with the Saints.

its interesting thou that he is receiving weekly training and is completing weekly time trials....make of that what you want, but i think that there is still a good chance that if all the charges are dropped that he will play for us...

Yes, I suspect that is simply covering all the bases.

If the allegation is dropped, the club will want him fit for a possible return. I still think its unlikely though, given the anti-Lovett sentiment from the players and coach.

[GrumpyOne]

Andrew Lovett has every right to be training with the club. He has not been charged with an offence and it is looking increasingly likely that he will not be. Was there ever anything in it? Ignore the pitiful rumours that have been spread around on this forum. Lovett wants to be vindicated and wants to play footy with the Saints. Prove I'm wrong.

Not if the coach and leadership group don't want him there, which they don't.

Not if he is suspended by the club for alleged rape.

Think its pretty clear that he has no right to train with the club at this time.

That may change if the allegation is dropped. But I think he has already blown his chance with the Saints.

Who runs the Club?

The Coach?

The Leadership Group?

Nope. The Elected Board.

Players and coach are merely employees.

In my organisation, the employees do not dictate to me who works and who doesn't.

If Lovett is not charged, he should be back in the main training group and up for selection. About time the Board grew some balls and told the players that they do not run the club.

[stinger]

Andrew Lovett has every right to be training with the club. He has not been charged with an offence and it is looking increasingly likely that he will not be. Was there ever anything in it? Ignore the pitiful rumours that have been spread around on this forum. Lovett wants to be vindicated and wants to play footy with the Saints. Prove I'm wrong.

if that's the truth....and that's how it pans out ..the only person who will be happier than me is likely to be andrew himself....